Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #64 ~ the appeal~

[Val1]

.....not at all.....if you are referring to the present situation which is how i perceived it.....i find that disturbing....you need to clarify or produce a link.....

Google spit this out on my first quick search...

http://www.independent.ie/world-news/africa/housekeeper-for-pistorius-slept-through-reeva-killing-30246258.html

Anneliese Burgess, a spokesman for the Pistoriuses, said Mr Chiziweni still worked for the family.

 

[akp]

My theory on Botha is this...

Forget that he staged the crime scene to frame a famous person. Why would he do that and how would he know how to do it using duvet's etc?

If anything, its likely to be the other way round. A corrupt cop might allow the crime scene to be tampered with / evidence removed. Did he allow the phone to walk in return for the watch?

The reason for Botha not to be called is obvious if you look at other cases - e.g. with corruption at the London Met.

Dodgy officers may deliberately compromise evidence, or scupper the case.

The reason for Nel to not call Botha is one only.

He cannot rely on Botha in the stand. It's not simply Botha's other problems which don't relate directly to this case.

On this topic - i believe one of the cops who testified in the OP case was also involved in a different case involving the "suicide" of a policemans wife.

In that case - the gun actually disappeared from the crime scene

To me that rather remarkable state of affairs says a lot about the police who might have worked this case.

Just more of the crap Nel has to deal with.

One suspects Botha would have blown the case somehow.

Completely agree.

Here are a couple of posts I made on the topic during the trial last year, and it is reassuring (for me personally) to know a trained legal mind also feels the same:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-the-upcoming-appeal&p=11159193#post11159193

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-the-upcoming-appeal&p=11159546#post11159546

 

[cottonweaver]

.

Just more of the crap Nel has to deal with.

One suspects Botha would have blown the case somehow.

Yes, it has to have been something highly problematic in Botha, for him to have been "exchanged" for Carl's interference with the phone, even though the incriminating phone data itself was long gone and thus could not be presented.
And agreed, exasperating for Nel

The whole corruption, political meddling, abject poverty, wanton murder in SA itself would make a grimly fascinating Drama- The Wire - *advertiser censored*- True Detective etc etc.

 

[mrjitty]

Completely agree.

Here are a couple of posts I made on the topic during the trial last year, and it is reassuring (for me personally) to know a trained legal mind also feels the same:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-the-upcoming-appeal&p=11159193#post11159193

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-the-upcoming-appeal&p=11159546#post11159546

Yes - I agree.

People largely misunderstood the defences coded references to tampering.

The phone is the most obvious example. How does the phone leave the crime scene actually?

I also agree re the 600m - this is a fairly typical thing to do. A policeman can consult his notes on key points as he can't be expected to remember everything. So how can that fact somehow be remembered wrong on cross? I think everything points to Botha's efforts to compromise the police case.

I found the other case very enlightening, as it involved one of the same policeman who testified in the OP case.

Somehow, in a possible murder investigation, the gun went missing from the crime scene. Later a suicide verdict was reached.

So basically the police have done everything possible to scupper that case from the outset.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes, it has to have been something highly problematic in Botha, for him to have been "exchanged" for Carl's interference with the phone, even though the incriminating phone data itself was long gone and thus could not be presented.
And agreed, exasperating for Nel

The whole corruption, political meddling, abject poverty, wanton murder in SA itself would make a grimly fascinating Drama- The Wire - *advertiser censored*- True Detective etc etc.

I think re the exchange, the damage was already done as far as Nel was concerned.

The evidence on the phone had been lost.

Yes he could bring proceedings against others for tampering - but they are not on trial in the OP case.

So what can Nel do in the trial except make it clear to the judge that the defence had possession (somehow). He can't prove how. The judge knows all this.

Ditto as far as Roux is concerned the real win is for Botha to be compromised (somehow).

Raising Botha's absence at trial doesn't really help the defence - its the lack of his evidence which counts.

So you can see why this deal is a no-brainer for both sides.

Personally I don't think Botha not being there is a problem for Nel of itself

Its more that Botha's key insights were missing.

 

[mrjitty]

AKP - did you find a transcript of Botha's testimony and X?

 

[Interested Bystander]

Google spit this out on my first quick search...

http://www.independent.ie/world-new...ius-slept-through-reeva-killing-30246258.html

Well done you. What string did you use for your search?

 

[mrjitty]

I always found this aspect odd.

How would Nel not know about this?

"The decision to reinstate was taken on 4 February, way before the issue of Pistorius came to light or the murder of Reeva was committed," an NPA spokesman, Medupe Simasiku, told Reuters. "It's completely unrelated to this trial."

It does also seem remarkable that this only then emerges at the bail hearing

 

[Colin de France]

Well done you. What string did you use for your search?

....still out of date ......i would like to know if your statement referring to the present is true.....and if so where did in come from....?...there's no end of links to articles from last year that's not what's being asked for ...i think being factually correct is important.....if Frank is still being paid today by Uncle Arnold i find that disturbing, he is not going to be free to disclose whatever.....if anything...

 

[mrjitty]

Interesting - especially re the leaked photos of the crime scene

Botha said the pictures – which also show the door panel smashed in – were not official police pictures and he believed they were taken with a mobile phone. It means the defence team may have seen raw crime scene photos BEFORE they were officially disclosed to lawyers – potentially impeding the police investigation.

and then this...

Botha claimed that he knew of two people who had changed their minds about talking to police.

“At that stage I had witnesses who I wanted to keep on my side,” Botha said. “There were witnesses I’d heard of that I wanted to get statements from but then they changed their minds.

“It sounds to me like someone spoke to them and they don’t want to get involved.”

Botha, who was dropped from the case after it emerged he was facing attempted murder charges for a separate incident, also came under attack for not wearing foot protection at the crime scene.

But he insisted: “We didn’t have a problem with DNA because we knew it was him, his gun, it was Reeva.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-trial-detective-hilton-1926756

 

[akp]

AKP - did you find a transcript of Botha's testimony and X?

Probably not. But before I can say a definite `No' or `Yes', I need to check my computer. It has been so long, and I had stopped following after the verdict, so do not remember clearly.

 

[akp]

AKP - did you find a transcript of Botha's testimony and X?

Ok, had a quick look - I do have a few files - but those are not transcripts, but rather looks like live (text) coverage by some news channel. Will check later in the evening.

 

[Val1]

Well done you. What string did you use for your search?

"Oscar Pistorius housekeeper Frank" then guessed at one of the links that came up.

 

[mrjitty]

Ok, had a quick look - I do have a few files - but those are not transcripts, but rather looks like live (text) coverage by some news channel. Will check later in the evening.

No worries and thanks

I was just interested to review some of his mistakes under X

 

[Mr Fossil]

AKP - did you find a transcript of Botha's testimony and X?

This might help. It's a collection of tweets from the bail hearing, including a lot of Botha's testimony and cross.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/anto...nsoek-hofsaak-19-feb-2013-1/10151307082580994

 

[Interested Bystander]

"Oscar Pistorius housekeeper Frank" then guessed at one of the links that came up.

Thank you. I normally have very little trouble searching for information but in the end used Frank Chiziweni + Pistorius + Working + Familywhich was successful.

 

[Interested Bystander]

During my tour of the ether last night I came acrossthis. It deals with the fairness oftelevising the trial.

https://inforrm.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/lights-camera-oscar-did-judge-masipa-find-in-her-judgment-that-the-broadcast-led-to-an-unfair-trial-dario-milo-and-stuart-scott/

 

[Val1]

During my tour of the ether last night I came acrossthis. It deals with the fairness oftelevising the trial.

https://inforrm.wordpress.com/2014/10/21/lights-camera-oscar-did-judge-masipa-find-in-her-judgment-that-the-broadcast-led-to-an-unfair-trial-dario-milo-and-stuart-scott/

That actually reminds me, did noone upload the proceedings, at least OP's testimony/cross, on youtube like was done for the Jodi Arias case?

Edit: nvm, just found a bunch of them, for those who really want to review the testimony...

 

[Mr Fossil]

AKP - did you find a transcript of Botha's testimony and X?

Here's a tidied up and properly sequenced version of the link I posted earlier. It contains the bail affidavit, tweets and notes from the bail hearing, Nair's judgement as reported and links to other bail related resources.

Bail hearing

 

[bessie]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237840