Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #64 ~ the appeal~

[bessie]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10330683

 

[JudgeJudi]

Yet another person is using one of OP’s defences:

A man was arrested for being in possession of an unlicensed firearm. Police went to his homestead and found the man sleeping in his house. During a search of the house, a shotgun was found hidden under his bed.

“The man failed to produce a license and advised police that the shotgun belonged to his father.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/unlicensed-firearm-found-under-bed-1.1908358#.VeWIWY0Vg4k

Well My Lady, you asked for this. It's only just begun.

 

[Colin de France]

Yet another person is using one of OP’s defences:

A man was arrested for being in possession of an unlicensed firearm. Police went to his homestead and found the man sleeping in his house. During a search of the house, a shotgun was found hidden under his bed.

“The man failed to produce a license and advised police that the shotgun belonged to his father.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/unlicensed-firearm-found-under-bed-1.1908358#.VeWIWY0Vg4k

Well My Lady, you asked for this. It's only just begun.

.........i really can't see the connection ......this type of excuse existed before guns were invented ............

 

[akp]

AKP - did you find a transcript of Botha's testimony and X?

Here are two old posts, one by MrFossil, that have links to resources for Bail hearing:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-the-upcoming-appeal&p=11160409#post11160409

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...upcoming-appeal/page4&p=11160745#post11160745

I think the files I have were obtained from these links.

 

[Viper]

.........i really can't see the connection ......this type of excuse existed before guns were invented ............

"The use of precedent has been justified as providing predictability, stability, fairness, and efficiency in the law. Reliance upon precedent contributes predictability to the law because it provides notice of what a person's rights and obligations are in particular circumstances. A person contemplating an action has the ability to know beforehand the legal outcome. It also means that lawyers can give legal advice to clients based on settled rules of law."

Can you see it now? :facepalm:



http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/precedent

 

[cottonweaver]

Yet another person is using one of OP’s defences:

A man was arrested for being in possession of an unlicensed firearm. Police went to his homestead and found the man sleeping in his house. During a search of the house, a shotgun was found hidden under his bed.

“The man failed to produce a license and advised police that the shotgun belonged to his father.”

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/unlicensed-firearm-found-under-bed-1.1908358#.VeWIWY0Vg4k

Well My Lady, you asked for this. It's only just begun.

Thanks JJ

Purely on the unlicensed gun issue in SA ( as opposed to Masipa offering "free passes" on this topic:

I read in August that Zuma was even opening a debate about creating a gun-free S.A. and with last week's figures on the number of police officers killed by unlicensed gun owners the issue is very much on the agenda.

I couldn't remember how many unlicensed guns there were - just checked, it estimates as many as are licensed:
" GunPolicy.org estimates that there are six million guns in South Africa, roughly 12 for every 100 people. The latest (August 2011) figures from the Central Firearms Registry report about 2.9-million firearms registered to about 1.5-million owners......The shooting of Reeva Steenkamp by her boyfriend, Olympian athlete Oscar Pistorius, has put guns and gun ownership in South Africa in the spotlight again.......According to Gun Free South Africa, both South African and international statistics show that gun owners are four times more likely to have a firearm used against them than they are to use one successfully in self-defence "
http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-22-00-ten-things-about-guns-in-south-africa

http://businesstech.co.za/news/government/94977/zuma-considers-a-gun-free-south-africa/

 

[Viper]

Thanks JJ

Purely on the unlicensed gun issue in SA ( as opposed to Masipa offering "free passes" on this topic:

I read in August that Zuma was even opening a debate about creating a gun-free S.A. and with last week's figures on the number of police officers killed by unlicensed gun owners the issue is very much on the agenda.

I couldn't remember how many unlicensed guns there were - just checked, it estimates as many as are licensed:
" GunPolicy.org estimates that there are six million guns in South Africa, roughly 12 for every 100 people. The latest (August 2011) figures from the Central Firearms Registry report about 2.9-million firearms registered to about 1.5-million owners......The shooting of Reeva Steenkamp by her boyfriend, Olympian athlete Oscar Pistorius, has put guns and gun ownership in South Africa in the spotlight again.......According to Gun Free South Africa, both South African and international statistics show that gun owners are four times more likely to have a firearm used against them than they are to use one successfully in self-defence "
http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-22-00-ten-things-about-guns-in-south-africa

http://businesstech.co.za/news/government/94977/zuma-considers-a-gun-free-south-africa/

I know that many here live in "gun free" countries so I will go easy. Using statistical propaganda produced by a "gun free" political organization is one sided and does not stand up to scrutiny. The preposition that a gun owner is at a greater risk of being a victim of gun violence is one point that really makes no sense. It is really saying that at the time a gun owner is attacked by an armed criminal they usually don't have their gun with them so it was impossible for them to use it to defend themselves against the armed criminal.

Statistics are evil and easily manipulated.

I know that criminals in Australia and Great Britian are committing gun crimes right this moment, just because it is against the law does not make it stop, criminals are people that refuse to abide by the law. Gun crimes in England have actually increased several hundred percent since private gun ownership was banned. Knife crimes in Australia have skyrocketed; they obviously need stronger anti-knife ownership laws.

It is virtually impossible to own much less register a firearm if you live in Chicago, the City of Chicago has the toughest anti-gun ownership laws in America. And yet Chicago is the murder capital of America, the majority of the deaths were gunshot victims, although victims is not a word I would use to identify dead drug dealers and gang members that have murdered one another.

 

[cottonweaver]

I know that many here live in "gun free" countries so I will go easy.

RSBM

All my neighbours have guns- I'm in a part of the UK which is huntin, shootin, fishin....., not for self-defence but they come in handy....but then none of SA friends would say "Life Is Cheap" of my neck of the woods.

Hence my my licence application will go through soon

 

[Viper]

RSBM

All my neighbours have guns- I'm in a part of the UK which is huntin, shootin, fishin....., not for self-defence but they come in handy....but then none of SA friends would say "Life Is Cheap" of my neck of the woods.

Hence my my licence application will go through soon

Hmm, sounds like a nice place! Probably a community that home invasion criminals tend to avoid, I'm guessing...

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes home invasions very rare! - but I have lived somewhere where they were prevalent in the 80's- nasty.

I'm not sure it's so great if you're a rare bird of prey around here, sadly though.

 

[Cherwell]

....still out of date ......i would like to know if your statement referring to the present is true.....and if so where did in come from....?...there's no end of links to articles from last year that's not what's being asked for ...i think being factually correct is important.....if Frank is still being paid today by Uncle Arnold i find that disturbing, he is not going to be free to disclose whatever.....if anything...

No one specifically said that Frank is currently still employed by the Pistorius family. But as it was confirmed that he was kept on as an employee after OP was forced to dispense with his services, it's a reasonable assumption.

I feel that if he was no longer under the wing of the Pistorius family, he would have been sought out by the media.

 

[Colin de France]

No one specifically said that Frank is currently still employed by the Pistorius family. But as it was confirmed that he was kept on as an employee after OP was forced to dispense with his services, it's a reasonable assumption.

I feel that if he was no longer under the wing of the Pistorius family, he would have been sought out by the media.

.....it would of been better had that come from IB right at the start....... a mistake was made, it would have been simple just to say so instead of looking for links in last years press......obviously if it was true it was important...

 

[Cherwell]

.....it would of been better had that come from IB right at the start....... a mistake was made, it would have been simple just to say so instead of looking for links in last years press......obviously if it was true it was important...

I'm afraid I find your posts rather hard to follow. What do you mean by "obviously if it was true it was important" ?

Anything to do with Frank is important, that goes without saying. Unfortunately it seems unlikely that his account of that night will ever be made public.

 

[Colin de France]

I'm afraid I find your posts rather hard to follow. What do you mean by "obviously if it was true it was important" ?

Anything to do with Frank is important, that goes without saying. Unfortunately it seems unlikely that his account of that night will ever be made public.

........obviously if he is still working for Uncle Arnold and in his pay he's not going to say much about the affair even if he could ....

 

[Interested Bystander]

Sorry Bystander, are you saying that you guess he will be released fairly quickly ie. pre Appeal?

I have no idea now. This was posted on 20 August when it was first mooted that he was not going to be released the following day. Now it seems things have moved on and we don't know whether there will be any repercussions from the recent events. I think after that, I posted Ulrich Roux's comment re his impression of what was going to happen. All in the air at the moment. I hope he will not be let out early but the P family seem to be able to get whatever they want/need.

 

[Colin de France]

I have no idea now. This was posted on 20 August when it was first mooted that he was not going to be released the following day. Now it seems things have moved on and we don't know whether there will be any repercussions from the recent events. I think after that, I posted Ulrich Roux's comment re his impression of what was going to happen. All in the air at the moment. I hope he will not be let out early but the P family seem to be able to get whatever they want/need.

.........maybe they suspect him of doing a runner ...........

 

[cottonweaver]

I have no idea now. This was posted on 20 August when it was first mooted that he was not going to be released the following day. Now it seems things have moved on and we don't know whether there will be any repercussions from the recent events. I think after that, I posted Ulrich Roux's comment re his impression of what was going to happen. All in the air at the moment. I hope he will not be let out early but the P family seem to be able to get whatever they want/need.

Hi IB - I think that's a very old post of mine you're quoting from a week or two ago?.

As per later light-hearted posts on wagers ut your money in the imaginary betting pot,
£50 for me at 3:1 for no release pre-Appeal and I'll put £10 in the 10:1 for the release date reaffirmed on Sept 18th! ( Covering all bases:blushing: as I've never placed a bet on anything!)

 

[cottonweaver]

On a more serious note, apparently the family can put in an emergency "application order" if he doesn't get the Yes on the 18th.
Point being - It may be relatively quick to process and cheap to fund, more so than we have previously assumed. However it still doesn't mean it will be granted.

 

[Interested Bystander]

LOL. I think what happened was it came up first on my opening page and I forgot that I had used Chrome which doesn't (for me) go to the latest post. I confuse the issue because I have my posts as latest first on the page (one of the options available on WS). Sorry about that. I like your betting strategy. So for me £10 at 3:1 for no release pre-Appeal and £20 at 10:1 for release date reaffirmed on Sept 18th.

 

[Viper]

On a more serious note, apparently the family can put in an emergency "application order" if he doesn't get the Yes on the 18th.
Point being - It may be relatively quick to process and cheap to fund, more so than we have previously assumed. However it still doesn't mean it will be granted.

I'm definitely not going to ask you for a link! But it seems strange that a prisoner could file an "emergency" appeal, really strange. And exactly what body would decide that appeal? I'm not following this... Did a real SA attorney say that? (No link requested or required, please.)

On your bets I would place the same. Good luck to us both!