Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #68 *Appeal Verdict*

[Marfa Lights]

BIB - not specifically, but I do remember Masipa occasionally asking Nel in a bored tone (or was it a whispered tone, or maybe a low tone...) how long it was going to take while allowing Roux centre stage for what seemed like forever.

I remember the same thing on at least two occasions. Should have guessed where that was headed.

 

[cottonweaver]

Interesting that you should mention freedom. I recently encountered a gentleman who works for Bell Pottinger, the London-based PR company that, amongst other things, has been working tirelessly, at vast expense, to ensure that potentially damaging material relating to Oscar Pistorius is removed from google search results, so that we, the general public, no longer have the freedom to access to it.

Somewhat ironically, the title on Bell Pottinger's homepage is 'Creating, shaping and telling your story'...

OP is in good company - Bell Pottinger has also been working to enhance the reputation of the government of Sri Lanka, presumably as a result of the fact that it has been doing its utmost for the past five years to resist an independent War Crimes investigation following credible reports of horrific human rights violations. Quite 'sinister' really.

Bell Pottinger's services include: 'Monitoring and analysis: Round-the-clock monitoring of print, online and social media to ensure that potential threats are identified and addressed at the earliest opportunity'.

On the bright side, I wonder which bright-spark PR guru advised OP that a publicly-televised trial could work wonders for repairing his irretrievably-damaged reputation?

http://www.bellpottinger.com/expertise/crisis

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/dec/09/bell-pottinger-tim-bell-pr-interview

Thanks for asking him the question, I had wondered before if they were still using a professional company, other than their official A.Burgess spokesperson. I know BP are a top-flight company in that sphere, very much doubt they would be on here, but I wonder what they are removing exactly as there is still overwhelmingly bad press out there in SMedia. Fascinating nonetheless.

Anyway I just typed in OP ladykiller ( seeing as that's what he always wanted to be and a poster has made this point earlier today - from 2014 he has been referred to as a "killer " on WS and since November a "murderer" ) and the GSearch brings up some unflattering hits.

Bizarrely the search turned up this quote from him in a Marie Claire interview, Jan 2013 :
OSCAR PISTORIUS: A SACRED RUNNER, A LADY KILLER..!“It is the others who have had to suffer for not being quite like me. My parents had decided once and for all that I would do exactly the same things as my brother and sister, same schools, same sports, same distractions … “

“I hated that they treat me differently, and equally manifestations of pity. I hated it. (…) The pity is a feeling that I hate. My disability has not changed anything in my life. ‘

He also talks about his love life: “Every man should be seen as a seducer. It is our job to hunt. A woman should not bother with this part of the job, sometimes laborious. She must be considered herself as a special lady that is not easy to covet. "


http://en.africatopsports.com/2013/01/12/south-africa-oscar-pistorius-a-sacred-runner-a-lady-killer/

 

[sleuth-d-]

I had expected Masipa to follow through and ask Roux to produce his recording so it could be entered into evidence but somewhat surprisingly, she never did.

following the dissection of her judgement, are you still surprised?

 

[soozieqtips]

He also talks about his love life: “Every man should be seen as a seducer. It is our job to hunt. A woman should not bother with this part of the job, sometimes laborious. She must be considered herself as a special lady that is not easy to covet. "

~snipped~

BIB red - well, he did hunt to kill, so he succeeded in that area.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Thanks for asking him the question, I had wondered before if they were still using a professional company, other than their official A.Burgess spokesperson. I know BP are a top-flight company in that sphere, very much doubt they would be on here, but I wonder what they are removing exactly as there is still overwhelmingly bad press out there in SMedia. Fascinating nonetheless.

Anyway I just typed in OP ladykiller ( seeing as that's what he always wanted to be and a poster has made this point earlier today - from 2014 he has been referred to as a "killer " on WS and since November a "murderer" ) and the GSearch brings up some unflattering hits.

Bizarrely the search turned up this quote from him in a Marie Claire interview, Jan 2013 :
OSCAR PISTORIUS: A SACRED RUNNER, A LADY KILLER..!“It is the others who have had to suffer for not being quite like me. My parents had decided once and for all that I would do exactly the same things as my brother and sister, same schools, same sports, same distractions … “

“I hated that they treat me differently, and equally manifestations of pity. I hated it. (&#8230 The pity is a feeling that I hate. My disability has not changed anything in my life. ‘

He also talks about his love life: “Every man should be seen as a seducer. It is our job to hunt. A woman should not bother with this part of the job, sometimes laborious. She must be considered herself as a special lady that is not easy to covet. "


http://en.africatopsports.com/2013/01/12/south-africa-oscar-pistorius-a-sacred-runner-a-lady-killer/

Okay, you win the award for posting the creepiest information today.

 

[cottonweaver]

Okay, you win the award for posting the creepiest information today.

No think that should go to Bell Pottinger - that was the point- they are not paying BP enough seeing as it took seconds to find it.

But yes - very odd, and strangely written AND one month before he murdered Reeva.

Then I realise it's a GTranslate from the French full article - which is here, but I haven't read it yet, see if you can make head or tale of it.

https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...sse-handicape-se-confie_a113235/6&prev=search


BPottinger's job gets tougher these days:
"In some ways, the PR business is getting harder and less glamorous. The internet and particularly social media are making Bell Pottinger's traditional publicity channel – the newspapers hung up in its Mayfair office, long susceptible to Bell's smooth phonecalls – less central to the making and unmaking of reputations......Bell is a professional optimist, but occasionally seems gloomy about the modern world. "I hate the internet," he told the authors"
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/dec/09/bell-pottinger-tim-bell-pr-interview

 

[Interested Bystander]

BIB, pure speculation here. The police had every right to arrest anyone from the Pistorius family that they wanted to for obstruction of justice and yet they didn't. The fact that they didn't shows that they didn't feel there was a problem here.

You need to read this article to understand why Carl was not prosecuted. He was on the point of being arrested until a deal was struck.

http://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/How-Carl-Pistorius-dodged-a-charge-20150429

 

[Cherwell]

No think that should go to Bell Pottinger - that was the point- they are not paying BP enough seeing as it took seconds to find it.

But yes - very odd, and strangely written AND one month before he murdered Reeva.

Then I realise it's a GTranslate from the French full article - which is here, but I haven't read it yet, see if you can make head or tale of it.

https://translate.google.co.uk/tran...sse-handicape-se-confie_a113235/6&prev=search

It reads much the same to me in French:

"Chaque homme doit se voir comme un séducteur , explique-t-il en rigolant. C'est notre fonction de chasser. Une femme ne doit pas s'encombrer de cette partie du boulot, parfois laborieux. Elle doit se considérer comme un être spécial, qu'il n'est pas facile de convoiter. "

But then they're quoting him, so presumably that's what he said in English, and Marie Claire has translated it.

 

[LemonMousse]

You need to read this article to understand why Carl was not prosecuted. He was on the point of being arrested until a deal was struck.

http://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/How-Carl-Pistorius-dodged-a-charge-20150429

Was CP never even questioned about this?

I don't really understand how the police go about things in SA. I'm still astonished that OP was allowed just to refuse to speak to them.

That wouldn't happen in the UK. He'd be arrested, brought into an interview room (with a lawyer if requested) and a taped interview would take place, whether he liked it or not. He could say "No comment" to every question if he wanted, but he'd have no choice in whether the questioning took place.

I am also pretty sure that CP would have been arrested and interviewed under caution regarding the phone wiping, even if they decided later not to charge him. Aimee would certainly be questioned about the handbag too.

Most confounding.

 

[LemonMousse]

"Every man should be seen as a seducer....blah blah blah"

What a total prat.

 

[cottonweaver]

In the same vein - ie. i am a player , this 2007 interview also came up, admittedly not as interesting as the forthcoming Appeal document ( hurry up Roux!)

"From The TIME Files: A 2007 Talk With Oscar Pistorius
Hearing Pistorius in much happier, hopeful times, is somewhat eerie.

It’s eerie to hear Pistorius and his agent, Peet van Zyl, talk excitedly about a new Nike campaign they were starting in South Africa: on Feb. 21, Nike suspended its contract with Pistorius. And at one point in the conversation, van Zyl jokes about Pistorius’ popularity with young women. “I’m doing my part for society,” Pistorius says, laughing. It comes across as an innocent joke. But is that quip a sign of something more? Of a super-sized ego? Of an arrogant attitude?

When it comes to Pistorius, there’s just so much we don’t know."

http://keepingscore.blogs.time.com/2013/02/25/from-the-time-files-a-2007-talk-with-oscar-pistorius/

short article - not a lot there. I s'pose it's just a 20-something man talking, more interested in Zyl's view in contrast to "evidence" he gave a trial.

 

[cottonweaver]

Last one relevant to the PR war - incoming
After Lerena and then Don Elgin ( Estelle's post upthread) and Sherbert's BPottinger link , here's a reminder of the PR battle post Reeva's murder

Pistorius holds private memorial service to honour Reeva Steenkamp
Paralympic star accused of trying to massage public perceptions as plans for service are 'leaked' in advance to the media.....
Plans for the service in the capital Pretoria came to light after a "leak" to the media, according to the public-relations agency representing Pistorius.

Vuma Reputation Management said: "Oscar specifically requested the memorial service as he continues to grieve and remains in deep mourning for the loss of his partner, Reeva. Since it is such a sensitive issue, Oscar has asked for a private service with people who share his loss, including his family members who knew and loved Reeva as one of their own."

The press release added: "The Pistorius family would like to make a personal request to the media to please respect their privacy at their home in Pretoria tonight."....
A woman answered the phone at Arnold Pistorius's home on Tuesday evening but said Arnold was unavailable. There was no immediate comment from Steenkamp's family, who held her funeral last week and have called for Pistorius to face justice...
Shashi Naidoo, a friend of Steenkamp, said: "If you wanted to keep a memorial service private, you would not put out a press release. I think this is a sad attempt to alter public perception."

The battle of perceptions is being waged by the Johannesburg-based Vuma, hired to deal with intense international media interest since the fatal shooting. It has revamped Pistorius's website, acted as a conduit for public statements by the Pistorius family, and become the first point of contact for journalists after the former Sun editor Stuart Higgins returned to Britain last week.

Higgins said recently: "I've been here at the family's request to offer short-term support and, given my own lack of knowledge and experience of the South African media landscape, I've recruited a local PR agency to offer local support and I will help out from London.

"There's a danger I will become the story if I stay here and alienate the local media," he said"

(Stuart Higgins was previously the only other PR I had heard about in ref to OP.)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/26/oscar-pistorius-memorial-service-reeva-steenkamp

And here's a comment from under the article, one of hundreds
26 Feb 2013 18:56 "The sheer arrogance Pistorius beggars belief. The man appears to be utterly shameless." Almost 3 years on, plus ca change and all that....

 

[soozieqtips]

Last one relevant to the PR war - incoming
After Lerena and then Don Elgin ( Estelle's post upthread) and Sherbert's BPottinger link , here's a reminder of the PR battle post Reeva's murder


(Stuart Higgins was previously the only other PR I had heard about in ref to OP.)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/26/oscar-pistorius-memorial-service-reeva-steenkamp

And here's a comment from under the article, one of hundreds
26 Feb 2013 18:56 "The sheer arrogance Pistorius beggars belief. The man appears to be utterly shameless." Almost 3 years on, plus ca change and all that....

Oh yeah. Who could ever forget the very public 'leak' about the private memorial. No point 'grieving' for Reeva in private when you can let the whole world know you're doing it. That was about as sincere as his apology to the Steenkamps' in court, IMO.

 

[Paul Connelly]

This article from ABCnews in 2013 is notable. It includes testimony from Kevin Lerena about Pistorius negligently discharging a handgun. Along with the others it seems to be an unfortunate habit of his. The other litany of misdemeanours is truly shocking. Why on earth someone didn't take this delinquent by the scruff of the neck and read him the good news is beyond me! Apologies if thus has been referenced previously.

Today in South Africa, Oscar Pistorius' lawyers are trying to reach a settlement with a woman who accused him of assault and called the police. Pistorius sued her for libel, saying the short time he spent in jail ruined his reputation and caused him to lose endorsement deals -- even though no assault charges were ever filed.

Watch the full story on "20/20: The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius" TONIGHT at 10 ET

"It's such a compelling, heart-warming story of a young man putting those carbon fiber blades on -- there were millions of people with disabilities around the world who [thought], 'I'm going to cheer for him. I could be him," said Christine Brennan, a sports columnist and commentator for ABC News.

"The reality is, it's nothing of the sort," Brennan continued. "We have no idea who Oscar Pistorius is except for that brief time that he is on the track in front of us."

Full Coverage: Oscar Pistorius Case

What we are finding out is surprising. Behind the inspirational athlete lurks a different figure, living a fast life: fast cars, dirt bikes, pet tigers and a passion for weapons.

"He was into the fast life, the fast car," said David O'Sullivan, a South African radio personality and friend of Pistorius . "He was about to buy himself a supercar, a McLaren."

"Oscar was more than a little crazy. Mainly because of the way he drove," said Michael Sokolove, a sports writer for the New York Times. Sokolove visited Pistorius in South Africa in 2011 and found that for the young star, the need for speed extended beyond the track to macho pursuits like power bikes and sports cars. And, as he did with his own body, Pistorius liked to push those machines to their limits.

"We were driving 150 miles an hour," Sokolove said. "There was a point that it was raining. We were on some state's turnpike, and he's weaving in between cars and tailgating them. And just really insane driving. He saw it as sport. But I feared he would hurt himself."

Pistorius did wipe out on his dirt bike, resulting in a darkly comic moment, Sokolove said.

"One of his artificial legs came off. It was hanging on a fence post. And he just joked. He said, 'Well, I guess that was one time when it was an advantage not to have your own leg.'"

Another accident was less funny.

In 2009 Pistorius came within inches of his life after he hit a submerged pier in a speedboat accident on the Vaal River, in South Africa. He smashed his eye socket, jaw, nose and two ribs, and needed to be airlifted to a hospital for special surgery.

"I remembered talking to him afterwards," O'Sullivan said, "and he said it made him take stock of his life and realize, 'Well I can't behave in that way.' And I thought, Well, there's Oscar's wake-up call."

Pistorius tried to slow down, but the flirting with danger -- and beautiful women -- never stopped. He invested in race horses, kept two pet tigers and maintained a strong interest in weaponry.

"He'd say, 'Well, I'm sort of antsy, I can't sleep. Let's go to the shooting range,'" Sokolove said. "I thought that was somewhat bizarre then, and in the light of day, more bizarre now."

Pistorius owned multiple guns, and it wasn't just for sport. Pistorius had legitimate concerns about safety, given the violence in South African society.

Pistorius reportedly slept with a gun by his bed, and in a recent tweet he recounted nearly shooting up his own washing machine when he mistook its noise for the sound of an intruder.

Pistorius' friend Kevin Lerena has his own story to tell, from a night at a Johannesburg restaurant.

The Real Oscar Pistorius

"Oz happened to ask my one mate to see his gun. My mate passed the gun across to him and unfortunately the gun went off. The bullet missed my toe by an inch. I could have lost my foot," Lerena said.

"I've never seen a person's face change so quickly in my life," Lerena went on. "[Pistorius] went pale; he actually started shaking he was so apologetic."

Even freak accidents can be bad for one's image, so the incident was covered up.

"My friend took the fall for [Pistorius] because of his status," Lerena told "Good Morning America." "No one was saying 'protecting Oscar,' but someone else took the fall for us as a friend."

Clearly the "Blade Runner" was a hot-blooded alpha male -- but was he also hot-tempered? Last year, after a series of jealous texts over an 18-year-old girlfriend, police say, Pistorius told another man he would break his legs.

"I was amazed," O'Sullivan said. "I was taken aback. I didn't think Oscar had it in him to make those kinds of threats, to threaten that level of violence."

"He's got his moments of anger," O'Sullivan continued. "Maybe too many people wanting too much from him, and eventually he snaps. ... I could never say these are premonitions of greater darkness to Oscar's personality, though."

"His P.R. machine was very good and covered up his few indiscretions," said Andy Grudko, former South African reserve police officer.

Whatever human shortcomings Pistorius may have had, the image the public wanted to preserve was London 2012, his sprint into immortality as the first double-amputee Olympian.

But weeks later, the Paralympics were held in the same stadium. After a surprising upset, Pistorius' good sportsmanship went out the window. He said that the Brazilian sprinter who beat him at the finish line had an unfair advantage because of his running blades.

"He said it was unfair, and he was petulant about it, and this shocked people," Michael Sokolove said. "He apologized, he said he regretted it. Everybody looks back now: Was this something that changed him, or was this evidence that he had already changed?"

This fall Pistorius told friends that his life had changed -- for the better. That was when he met the gorgeous girl from Port Elizabeth, Reeva Steenkamp.

Friends have testified that Pistorius was deeply committed to the relationship. If anything, they said, his heart was racing faster than Steenkamp might have wanted.

Amid the exhilaration of new love, Valentine's Day was going to be special: flowers, dinner and romantic plans. Reeva Steenkamp's last tweet read, "what do you have up your sleeve for your love tomorrow??? #getexcited#valentinesday"

 

[elfie]

I hope mr fossil and JJ do a new post soon!

I think we need something new to chew on instead of all these previously debunked talking points.

In general what I find a problem with the forum format is stuff that was already analysed in huge detail gets buried under a tonne of posts which are either incorrect or highly misleading.

So true! The older cascading BB style had a distinct advantage in this respect. It would be nice to have separate threads for different aspects of the appeal to keep relative points and arguments together.

 

[Susza]

It reads much the same to me in French:

"Chaque homme doit se voir comme un séducteur , explique-t-il en rigolant. C'est notre fonction de chasser. Une femme ne doit pas s'encombrer de cette partie du boulot, parfois laborieux. Elle doit se considérer comme un être spécial, qu'il n'est pas facile de convoiter. "

But then they're quoting him, so presumably that's what he said in English, and Marie Claire has translated it.

I can confirm, Cherwell. It's well translated.

 

[Cherwell]

So true! The older cascading BB style had a distinct advantage in this respect. It would be nice to have separate threads for different aspects of the appeal to keep relative points and arguments together.

There's a whole batch of sticky threads on specific aspects of the case. Go to the top of the page and click on "Oscar Pistorius" and you'll see them.

 

[elfie]

There's a whole batch of sticky threads on specific aspects of the case. Go to the top of the page and click on "Oscar Pistorius" and you'll see them.

Yes, of course, thank you! It doesn't prevent Pistorians from repeating erroneous and false talking points ad infinitum, though.

 

[mrjitty]

You need to read this article to understand why Carl was not prosecuted. He was on the point of being arrested until a deal was struck.

http://www.news24.com/Archives/City-Press/How-Carl-Pistorius-dodged-a-charge-20150429

For me there are still very big questions about this though.

1. The location & use of the phone on premises is effectively established via the cell tower records
2. The content of the whatsapp messages was established 100% via Reeva's phone
3. The removal of the phone is established via the cell towers
4. The phone came into the possession of the defence - who must presumably know who from

So what was the state gaining here?

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall!

 

[foxbluff]

For me there are still very big questions about this though.1. The location & use of the phone on premises is effectively established via the cell tower records2. The content of the whatsapp messages was established 100% via Reeva's phone3. The removal of the phone is established via the cell towers4. The phone came into the possession of the defence - who must presumably know who fromSo what was the state gaining here?I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall!

Ahhh yes...I too would loved to have been a fly on the wall!....One of my guesses is that the phone was removed right under the eyes of one of the officers (or maybe even w/permission from officer)!!!....Imho one of the worse things happening with the officers first on the scene is that they believed they had a "cut & dried" case as they immediately had the "who, what, when, and where" and they had a confession from the shooter....Because of this, imo, they got sloppy w/the chain of evidence and preserving the crime scene....To make matters worse, some of the officers may have even been slightly "starstruck" to boot....MOO