Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #68 *Appeal Verdict*

[LemonMousse]

This is not curious in the least.

Earlier on this forum, there was someone that asked why the bat sounds weren't reproduced by the PT and the response was that you'd never get the same result because there are now new houses that have been built and the sound wouldn't travel the same way.

Using that same argument, Oscar said he had never screamed like this in his life. You will not be able to recreate the same conditions that existed on the night of the accident that's why you won't hear a recording.

His vocal cords can either produce sounds that sound female or they can't. Very silly and obvious excuse to pretend that "It was a one time event only, Milady".

 

[mrjitty]

The matter was not in evidence anyway

The only evidence Roux produced was an expert who suggested a male and a female might be confused at distance.

But note this was simply an opinion. No actual recordings of OP were produced.

 

[LemonMousse]

BIB, now that the SCA has ruled, you're throwing out that murderer label around a lot these days. I don't think I heard you ever say he was "convicted of the negligent killing of a human being called Reeva Steenkamp" when Masipa gave her competent ruling of CH.

Let's give time and see what the CC rules next year, it could very easily drop to CH with Oscar being free for time served.

He was previously referred to as the killer. We did that on here out of politeness to the forum mods so that there were no legal issues.

Now we can rightfully refer to him as the murderer because, you see, that is what he is.

I know he'll always be "Oscar" to you, though. We all need our heros, eh? Brace yourself, though....the CC will not rule in his favour. His human rights have not been breached.

 

[Marfa Lights]

His vocal cords can either produce sounds that sound female or they can't. Very silly and obvious excuse to pretend that "It was a one time event only, Milady".

Especially if his "life" (i.e. prison sentence looming) depends on it again.

 

[mrjitty]

I hope mr fossil and JJ do a new post soon!

I think we need something new to chew on instead of all these previously debunked talking points.

In general what I find a problem with the forum format is stuff that was already analysed in huge detail gets buried under a tonne of posts which are either incorrect or highly misleading.

 

[akp]

I hope mr fossil and JJ do a new post soon!

I think we need something new to chew on instead of all these previously debunked talking points.

In general what I find a problem with the forum format is stuff that was already analysed in huge detail gets buried under a tonne of posts which are either incorrect or highly misleading.

Couldn't agree more.

Till then, I am making full use of the `ignore' buttons on the forum as well as inside my head! There is a problem with that, though. You tend to miss the occasional good posts in between that are surrounded by these meaningless and repetitive ones.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...c6e5dab93?sv=e3939330a21d93e7bea36ae1c9d81584

THE family and friends of Allison Baden-Clay have asked Queenslanders to join them on the streets of Brisbane in an unprecedented rally to vent their outrage over the decision to downgrade Gerard Baden-Clay’s murder conviction to manslaughter.

High-profile Australians including Libby Trickett have thrown their support behind the rally, and will today record a promotional video for release on social media and television in aid of the event.

Organisers are hopeful Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull will also record a video message to be played at the event, which will also pay homage to all victims of family violence.


More than 71,000 people had yesterday signed a change.org petition urging the Attorney-General to appeal the decision by the Court of Appeal.

-.-.-.-

GBC hypocritically is wearing his wedding ring in jail though he has murdered his wife. Don't know what else is he smugly doing - paywall.
If Oscar would own a wedding ring, I'm sure he would wear him too while praying in front of the shrine and especially with media around him.

 

[Marfa Lights]

I hope mr fossil and JJ do a new post soon!

I think we need something new to chew on instead of all these previously debunked talking points.

In general what I find a problem with the forum format is stuff that was already analysed in huge detail gets buried under a tonne of posts which are either incorrect or highly misleading.

Although I am as guilty of re-hashing as anyone, it would be great if you could choose from a menu of topics within a thread. Not sure that would be technically possible on Tapatalk/WS. I guess you could create a variety of different threads, much as we already have, but instead of being more or less chronological as they are now, they could focus on specific topics.

I personally don't mind all the re-hashing. I occasionally read something that sheds a new light on things be it in the original post or the response. Plus this trial has gone on so long now, I find myself starting to forget some of the early details.

 

[CriLondon]

It must be that on shots first, then following - a retreat to the bedroom, a search of the room in the dark, a return to open the door, a return to get prostheses on and get cricket bat and going on the balcony, another return and breaking down the door...Reeva would long since have taken her last breaths. And after phone calls were made, would not have left arterial spray on the walls outside the bedroom.

Shots last, and the blood curdling screams in fear for her life being Reeva. I won't accept that there is any way on earth Berger and Johnson heard the cricket bat, particularly with the pause heard and Mangena's evidence.

BBM - One particular point that I don't see mentioned often , is that Nel under re-examination asked Berger to confirm that shots 2-3-4 were too rapid to have been cricket bat strikes, hence she could have only heard the gunshots. This is crucial because , although a subjective interpretation by a witness , it went unchallenged by the defence IIRC.
Why Nel didn't home in on this point (which he brilliantly made in re-exam) in his closing , i don't quite understand.

 

[Tortoise]

BBM - One particular point that I don't see mentioned often , is that Nel under re-examination asked Berger to confirm that shots 2-3-4 were too rapid to have been cricket bat strikes, hence she could have only heard the gunshots. This is crucial because , although a subjective interpretation by a witness , it went unchallenged by the defence IIRC.
Why Nel didn't home in on this point (which he brilliantly made in re-exam) in his closing , i don't quite understand.

I was disappointed that he chose to condense things down to his baker's dozen. I felt at the time that he should have laid out every single point, no matter how many points and pages it extended to, it would have had far greater impact. I can't remember, was he given a time allowance?

 

[Cherwell]

I was disappointed that he chose to condense things down to his baker's dozen. I felt at the time that he should have laid out every single point, no matter how many points and pages it extended to, it would have had far greater impact. I can't remember, was he given a time allowance?

I too was hugely disappointed with his closing. There was so much missed out. I'm sure there was ample time to cover everything.

 

[mrjitty]

I think by that stage Nel had realised Masipa was a low information judge.

Surprised he didn't bake it down to 3 points!

 

[Marfa Lights]

I think by that stage Nel had realised Masipa was a low information judge.

Surprised he didn't bake it down to 3 points!

It always seemed like Nel would make a point, but would not summarize the point as a conclusion-- as if he expected you to make the obvious inference yourself.

I remember wondering if he did that deliberately so as not to seemingly offend Masipa's intelligence-- to allow her to draw her own conclusions.

We all know how well that worked.

Roux, on the other hand, wrote the script for her and she stuck to it!

 

[mrjitty]

As I have said before - trial management is a bit to what you might think

I really doubt any amount of inspirational closing will sway a judge who had not been convinced by the accused's performance in the stand and the performance of the other witnesses.

 

[Sherbert]

The Pistorius family is exercising their right of free speech and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. If they want to put out a story, it is within their right to do it.

The Steenkamp family has also signed financial deals with select media outlets to tell their side as well.

Either both sides are being sinister or neither is. Your pick.

Interesting that you should mention freedom. I recently encountered a gentleman who works for Bell Pottinger, the London-based PR company that, amongst other things, has been working tirelessly, at vast expense, to ensure that potentially damaging material relating to Oscar Pistorius is removed from google search results, so that we, the general public, no longer have the freedom to access to it.

Somewhat ironically, the title on Bell Pottinger's homepage is 'Creating, shaping and telling your story'...

OP is in good company - Bell Pottinger has also been working to enhance the reputation of the government of Sri Lanka, presumably as a result of the fact that it has been doing its utmost for the past five years to resist an independent War Crimes investigation following credible reports of horrific human rights violations. Quite 'sinister' really.

Bell Pottinger's services include: 'Monitoring and analysis: Round-the-clock monitoring of print, online and social media to ensure that potential threats are identified and addressed at the earliest opportunity'.

On the bright side, I wonder which bright-spark PR guru advised OP that a publicly-televised trial could work wonders for repairing his irretrievably-damaged reputation?

http://www.bellpottinger.com/expertise/crisis

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/dec/09/bell-pottinger-tim-bell-pr-interview

 

[mrjitty]

Interesting that you should mention freedom. I recently encountered a gentleman who works for Bell Pottinger, the Lonon-based PR company that, amongst other things, has been working tirelessly, at vast expense, to ensure that potentially damaging material relating to Oscar Pistorius is removed from google search results, so that we, the general public, no longer have the freedom to access to it.

Somewhat ironically, the title on Bell Pottinger's homepage is 'Creating, shaping and telling your story'...

OP is in good company - Bell Pottinger has also been working to enhance the reputation of the government of Sri Lanka, presumably as a result of the fact that it has been doing its utmost for the past five years to resist an independent War Crimes investigation following credible reports of horrific human rights violations. Quite 'sinister' really.

Bell Pottinger's services include: 'Monitoring and analysis: Round-the-clock monitoring of print, online and social media to ensure that potential threats are identified and addressed at the earliest opportunity'.

On the bright side, I wonder which bright-spark PR guru advised OP that a publicly-televised trial could work wonders for repairing his irretrievably-damaged reputation?

http://www.bellpottinger.com/expertise/crisis

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2013/dec/09/bell-pottinger-tim-bell-pr-interview

LOL!

I am really not surprised based on the Knox and McC@nn cases.

The fact that parties deploy bots and other social spamming tools tells you what you need to know.

 

[sleuth-d-]

This is not curious in the least.

Earlier on this forum, there was someone that asked why the bat sounds weren't reproduced by the PT and the response was that you'd never get the same result because there are now new houses that have been built and the sound wouldn't travel the same way.

Using that same argument, Oscar said he had never screamed like this in his life. You will not be able to recreate the same conditions that existed on the night of the accident that's why you won't hear a recording.

but roux didn't use that argument. quite the contrary. roux openly referred to having a recording that would prove that pistorius screamed like a woman, and used this information as part of his attempt to confuse and discredit dr stipp.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsQaxImyQVA
[25 minutes in]

"we will call an expert, who will come and tell the court the surprise of him screaming and it sounds just like a woman"

 

[sleuth-d-]

BIB, pure speculation here. The police had every right to arrest anyone from the Pistorius family that they wanted to for obstruction of justice and yet they didn't. The fact that they didn't shows that they didn't feel there was a problem here.

the phone was wiped, so clearly it has to be speculation, but the events back up the conclusion.
would you agree that this is the action of an accused with something to hide from the court?
or do you have some thoughts on why the phone was innocently removed and wiped?

eta
bib, shows that we can both do pure speculation...

 

[soozieqtips]

I was disappointed that he chose to condense things down to his baker's dozen. I felt at the time that he should have laid out every single point, no matter how many points and pages it extended to, it would have had far greater impact. I can't remember, was he given a time allowance?

BIB - not specifically, but I do remember Masipa occasionally asking Nel in a bored tone (or was it a whispered tone, or maybe a low tone...) how long it was going to take while allowing Roux centre stage for what seemed like forever.

 

[Marfa Lights]

but roux didn't use that argument. quite the contrary. roux openly referred to having a recording that would prove that pistorius screamed like a woman, and used this information as part of his attempt to confuse and discredit dr stipp.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsQaxImyQVA
[25 minutes in]

"we will call an expert, who will come and tell the court the surprise of him screaming and it sounds just like a woman"

I had expected Masipa to follow through and ask Roux to produce his recording so it could be entered into evidence but somewhat surprisingly, she never did.