Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

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BBM - Then OP had the nerve to approach the ANC Women’s League Tuesday after his little demonstration and:

"he apologised for what he had done.

“He also said he knew that we, as women, had a responsibility towards women. I said yes, because no one had the right to take anybody’s life.

“He asked that we also take responsibility for people with disabilities. I responded that your disability does not make you run away from facts, but that I wish you strength.”"

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/oscarpistorius-sentencing-day-2-2034801

LOL. I thought OP was too sick to plead his case?
OP:"Please Ms Mofokeng, loving your work " aka "don't interfere with my sentencing and parole in the future, just in case Tilly goes easy on me"

From your link- the full extract, as this plea passed me by last week.
During a break in proceedings on Tuesday, Pistorius spoke to the ANC Women’s League’s Jacqui Mofokeng. This was the first time since the start of the trial two years ago he approached members of the league. As he passed the bench where Mofokeng sat in the front row, Pistorius stopped and exchanged a few words with her.

Mofokeng later told the Pretoria News he apologised for what he had done.
“He also said he knew that we, as women, had a responsibility towards women. I said yes, because no one had the right to take anybody’s life.

“He asked that we also take responsibility for people with disabilities. I responded that your disability does not make you run away from facts, but that I wish you strength.”

Mofokeng said she shook his extended hand, but that did not change anything for the women who felt he had to go and serve his time in jail.
“I was shocked. I have been here from the start and he feels like approaching me today,” she added.
 
UK only broadcast , ok sneaky , as their PR firm also know very well that it will prob be copied and put out over the www. just like the re-enactment video only leaked in Aus. ( Plenty of youtubers even film their TV screens besides the screenshots & descriptions as you say.) As Nel has brought it into evidence she will refer to it, I guess, at the very least.

Just as well that the show won't also have the PR boost that he is aiming for. It's way too soon to be doing "for charity" media interviews- that's for 10 years plus down the line.

ETA As T posted , it IS actually being shown in SA, so bootlegging it is now irrelevant

In 10 years time it will be more a case of charity begins at home. Remember, he's so destitute according to Roux that all he has is the shirt on his back and his underpants.
 
The cynic in me thinks that all of the sentencing arguments were unnecessary, as Maipsa's probably already made up her mind. In essence, she was peer reviewed and found wanting with both her shoddy legal reasoning exposed and also her analysis of the State's circumstantial evidence. (As an aside, I'm confused by why people are insisting that the SCA "agreed" with the intruder version when the SCA didn't have to power to change what was decreed a factual finding. In fact, Leach and co were clearly unimpressed by her lack of acknowledgement of the evidence in her verdict, especially Mangena's evidence. Either some posters are being deliberately disingenuous or they didn't read/watch the judgement).

To me, it seemed like Masipa believed Oscar's remorse was genuine then worked backwards from that to select the evidence that supported the intruder version (not that much) and throw out everything else. In my opinion and experience though, when people make mistakes (and everyone does) if these errors are reviewed by their colleagues with an explanation of what went wrong there are 3 possible outcomes :
1) The person who has made the mistake recognises that they went down the wrong pathway, accepts their colleagues' input and makes adjustments to their working style to reduce it happening again. In medicine, this might involve having a lower threshold to asking another doctor for an independent opinion when the original diagnosis doesn't seem to fit as well as it did.
The reason why I don't think Masipa is capable of this is that her original legal reasoning was poor and I don't think someone whose knowledge of the law was so shoddy is capable of that degree of self-reflection.

2) The person steadfastly refuses to accept that they've made a mistake and thinks the reviewers were wrong.
This is what Roux was hoping for with his argument. Essentially, "You weren't THAT wrong, the SCA nearly agreed with you and you should sentence this poor, broken, disabled man in the manner you think is appropriate".

3) The person privately doesn't think they've made a mistake but atones for the error in public, in order to maintain credibility and to move on professionally.
This is is what Nel was alluding to, I think with his, "The punishment must fit the crime" stance. Masipa knows that the PT will likely appeal any sentence that is too light and there's a good chance that she doesn't want her career and legacy forever tainted by Oscar-related appeals. Now that she's near retirement she may be sick of the public scrutiny her original judgement afforded her and be ready for a quieter life, with her garden and cups of tea.

Personally, I'm thinking this will be 3. No change of mind for her so not the maximum sentence but enough so that there's not a further appeal.

Having said that, this case has taken me down the rabbit hole before, so who knows?
 
The ITV interview will be broadcast in SA on 24th June

http://carteblanche.dstv.com/exclusive-oscar-pistorius-interview/

Thanks, I noted that in your link it also stated:

"Prior to next week Friday’s Oscar Pistorius: The Interview. A Carte Blanche Special, M-Net’s acclaimed actuality programme will look into Oscar Pistorius’ sentencing in the show on Sunday, 19 June at 19:00."

Anyone with access to M-Net up to wasting part of their father's day by watching that bit too?:/ It just never seems to stop....
 
In 10 years time it will be more a case of charity begins at home. Remember, he's so destitute according to Roux that all he has is the shirt on his back and his underpants.

Boohoo... that's what happens when you transfer all your assets to others to avoid having them taken away to be sold to pay your debts. If I had a dollar for each car/house sold for a pittance(minimum required to transfer them, ie. used to be $1 per vehicle) to their family members or friends..... heck, look at how quick they got all that info out of his safes(before RS was even removed by the coroner!!) and into his bro's possession, plus iirc the companies he had were jointly owned by his siblings so it would be interesting to know whether those would or could have been impacted or if he quickly signed off on those too.
 
Cheers T, for clarifying the facts.

So I'll revert to previous thought - Masipa will have to watch IMO as it's existence has been entered into evidence for sentencing by Nel.
What do you reckon T ?

Oh pulleez cotton, you know Masipa throws out most of the evidence. She'll just sit on her lounge, hands clasped and smiling as she watches her boy perform.
 
Oh pulleez cotton, you know Masipa throws out most of the evidence. She'll just sit on her lounge, hands clasped and smiling as she watches her boy perform.

Ha. The mental image is droll BUT I do agree with part of what Jake is saying above. ( Too long to quote or start splitting his post into multiple posts as I did with val's post )
-I think, yes she naturally had a ball park in mind but Nel has presented her with extra justfication to go higher.
-Naturally I'll agree she isn't that stubborn to really stick her neck out by going too low, what she delivers has to be un- appealable
-Also that she will refer her draft to/discuss with more experienced colleagues, (whether or not she is capable of self-crit as Jake says) I think she wants this over/redeem her rep in her last memorable case.
-That Nel has provided more up-to-date case law re sentencing and victim advocacy. ( I got sick to death of hearing about the triad of Zinn, even Judge Sithole went on about it in the Flabba case. Suppose at Leach's level this would be called out as "trite")

- So over last year or more, I've stuck to 10 years as my guesstimate. Now after seeing the hearing I think it's going to be 10 years plus some.

Her giving 15 +? I wouldn't go that far no. ( It would be good , morally, in my book, but I can't see it happening over there)
so .12/13 ... my guess.ie. I feel more positive. It went well for the State
(then time served to come off that.)
 
The cynic in me thinks that all of the sentencing arguments were unnecessary, as Maipsa's probably already made up her mind. In essence, she was peer reviewed and found wanting with both her shoddy legal reasoning exposed and also her analysis of the State's circumstantial evidence. (As an aside, I'm confused by why people are insisting that the SCA "agreed" with the intruder version when the SCA didn't have to power to change what was decreed a factual finding. In fact, Leach and co were clearly unimpressed by her lack of acknowledgement of the evidence in her verdict, especially Mangena's evidence. Either some posters are being deliberately disingenuous or they didn't read/watch the judgement).

To me, it seemed like Masipa believed Oscar's remorse was genuine then worked backwards from that to select the evidence that supported the intruder version (not that much) and throw out everything else. In my opinion and experience though, when people make mistakes (and everyone does) if these errors are reviewed by their colleagues with an explanation of what went wrong there are 3 possible outcomes :
1) The person who has made the mistake recognises that they went down the wrong pathway, accepts their colleagues' input and makes adjustments to their working style to reduce it happening again. In medicine, this might involve having a lower threshold to asking another doctor for an independent opinion when the original diagnosis doesn't seem to fit as well as it did.
The reason why I don't think Masipa is capable of this is that her original legal reasoning was poor and I don't think someone whose knowledge of the law was so shoddy is capable of that degree of self-reflection.

2) The person steadfastly refuses to accept that they've made a mistake and thinks the reviewers were wrong.
This is what Roux was hoping for with his argument. Essentially, "You weren't THAT wrong, the SCA nearly agreed with you and you should sentence this poor, broken, disabled man in the manner you think is appropriate".

3) The person privately doesn't think they've made a mistake but atones for the error in public, in order to maintain credibility and to move on professionally.
This is is what Nel was alluding to, I think with his, "The punishment must fit the crime" stance. Masipa knows that the PT will likely appeal any sentence that is too light and there's a good chance that she doesn't want her career and legacy forever tainted by Oscar-related appeals. Now that she's near retirement she may be sick of the public scrutiny her original judgement afforded her and be ready for a quieter life, with her garden and cups of tea.

Personally, I'm thinking this will be 3. No change of mind for her so not the maximum sentence but enough so that there's not a further appeal.

Having said that, this case has taken me down the rabbit hole before, so who knows?

Exactly. I agree with everything you've said.
 
Boohoo... that's what happens when you transfer all your assets to others to avoid having them taken away to be sold to pay your debts. If I had a dollar for each car/house sold for a pittance(minimum required to transfer them, ie. used to be $1 per vehicle) to their family members or friends..... heck, look at how quick they got all that info out of his safes(before RS was even removed by the coroner!!) and into his bro's possession, plus iirc the companies he had were jointly owned by his siblings so it would be interesting to know whether those would or could have been impacted or if he quickly signed off on those too.

No doubt money was used to buy diamonds. Remember he was seen at the diamond market during the trial. Uncle Arnie would have plenty of safes. He better not store them in the safe at work though because his rhino horns disappeared. We never did hear what happened about those. He said something at the time which implied he had a lead.
 
Cheers T, for clarifying the facts.

So I'll revert to previous thought - Masipa will have to watch IMO as it's existence has been entered into evidence for sentencing by Nel.
What do you reckon T ?

I don't think she'll watch. I think she's annoyed about having to revisit this case. I would so love to give my thoughts and analysis to this past week but all I have inside me still is a tightly balled-up scream. By the time I get around to it there'll be no one here to read it lol.
Everyone here is so fluent and ready to pick up on all the details and make intelligent commentary. All I'm stuck with is Barry Steenkamp's heart wrenching testimony and not just his testimony - his circumstances and his life now, and at the opposite end, Pistorius' (and Roux's) disgusting behaviour. See I'm absolutely blocked inside from saying anything more than that about him, I don't have access to coherent thoughts and words still. He disgusts me utterly, to the point that I don't want to even consider him, he's just poison.
 
Hi all. Nice to see the thread back open, especially with some very interesting reading material and food for thought in the preceding posts. I do wish Nel had drawn attention to Pistorius's version wherein he is making his way up the hall and then after firing, running back to 'look for Reeva' etc all on his stumps. This would have focused in on the difference between his wobbly performance in court the other day and the actions he said he performed on the night of the murder. Quite a contrast IMO. Plus, as someone said either here or on DS, he claims to have brought the moving and presumably heavy and unwieldy fans in while on his stumps as well whereas to look at him the other day it seemed like he could barely move without assistance. Such theatrical BS.

I always find it odd when considering his version or debating it. You end up asking 'Well why didn't he do x, y or z' before reminding yourself `Yes but if it is all a lie, then none of this matters because none of it happened'.

With the sentence I am in two minds about it. Part of me agrees that Masipa will likely give him the minimum she feels she can get away with, which will be unsatisfactory in terms of justice IMO. Because of that gut feeling, the other part almost hopes she gives him an outrageously generous sentence so that the State appeals. Would love to see Roux's antics and Pistorius' refusal to testify put to the SCA test.
 
I don't think she'll watch. I think she's annoyed about having to revisit this case. I would so love to give my thoughts and analysis to this past week but all I have inside me still is a tightly balled-up scream. By the time I get around to it there'll be no one here to read it lol.
Everyone here is so fluent and ready to pick up on all the details and make intelligent commentary. All I'm stuck with is Barry Steenkamp's heart wrenching testimony and not just his testimony - his circumstances and his life now, and at the opposite end, Pistorius' (and Roux's) disgusting behaviour. See I'm absolutely blocked inside from saying anything more than that about him, I don't have access to coherent thoughts and words still. He disgusts me utterly, to the point that I don't want to even consider him, he's just poison.

I understand how you feel Tortoise. I was completely drained by the end of it, passing out one night and then exhausted but unable to sleep the next. Listening to BarryS brought tears to many eyes that night. He spoke straight from the heart, it was emotional and very powerful evidence. How could you not be moved ... unless you were a member of the Pistorius family who, to a person, sat there emotionless and stony faced. Their tears were only for the murderer when he testified.

As for Roux, I've given my opinion on him countless times. Some people say that he was just doing his job. No, he went above and beyond what was required of a defence attorney. I'll leave it at that or I'll wind myself up.
 
I haven't been looking for news, so thanks for all the links above. Thought I'd better go see if there is anything new out there and....

here we go - family ramping it up -a little more nonsense

http://city-press.news24.com/News/oscar-gets-threats-of-gang-rape-20160618

Pistorius family lays criminal charges as man threatens athlete with abuse in jail

In the week during which Oscar Pistorius walked on his stumps in court and pictures of his murdered girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, were released to the public, it emerged that family members had received threats that Pistorius would be gang raped in prison.

Police confirmed that they were investigating a case of intimidation after the threats were made in a series of WhatsApp messages sent to Pistorius’ cousin Arnoldus Kurt Pistorius on Thursday. The family laid criminal charges, submitting all their evidence to the Garsfontein Police Station.

According to the statement made at the station on the case of intimidation, it was not only Pistorius being targeted; his cousins were also threatened.
In his statement to the police, seen by City Press, Arnoldus said that on Thursday he received a WhatsApp message from an unknown number. The sender asked him to verify if he was Pistorius’ cousin, which he did. The person then claimed to have evidence that state prosecutor Gerrie Nel had paid a prison nurse to lie in court.

City Press understands he allegedly proposed that the information be used to weaken the state’s case against Oscar and to discredit the testimony that Kgosi Mampuru II correctional services assistant health manager and professional nurse Charlotte Mashobane had given.
 
I see the links already gone over to Dig Spy.

It's just another non-story if you read the full article. Sounds like another half-baked extortion attempt from some un-smart guy trying to make a buck..
The anon call happened Thurs, the family member was giving details to the press the following day.

As we said last time - they will have been getting dubious calls & messages for 3 years I would guess. Par for the course, I guess.
It's not as if OP suddenly became notorious from the point the SCA judged is it? Revealing them now is coincidence?

But, how did the guy get the uncle on Whatsapp?IDK

Maybe it was one of OP's super-fans who decided to go the extra mile to help him out by doing a "phone jacker". :eek::phone:

in case of confusion, here's one of many PJ comedy characters

[video=youtube;OjXgqn-nEfc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjXgqn-nEfc[/video]

This is one of his tamer characters. He does do phone crime spoofs but they might cause offence.
 
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