Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

[aftermath]

I agree with you on everything except what you say about mental condition - in his case.

His mental decline is all about him not wanting to serve time for his crime.

His condition has not warranted a hospital admission while awaiting sentencing - obviously.

He is not wracked with guilt or remorse - it is all pity for himself and stunts to hoodwink the court.

If he is well enough to reduce his meds in prison - according to Roux - he is malingering. If he is well enough to be studying and wanting to work, and performing for the ITV cameras, he is not a mental patient or a "broken man" - he has some outrageous arrogance and denial still. I could say more and worse about him, but you get my drift.

I think he has severe personality disorders, but that does not make him eligible for a reduced sentence, IMO.

High functioning depression can mask the severity of the condition.

 

[Sherbert]

High functioning depression can mask the severity of the condition.

Wouldn't it be normal, though, for someone in his position to be extremely depressed?

 

[Sherbert]

Agree 100%

Roux is just throwing as much mud on the wall as possible and hoping something sticks.

But my own analysis based on the SCA is that the defence has not established any compelling circumstances.

"Murdering the wrong person" is not compelling.

I agree - I also can't spot any compelling evidence, but Mannie Witz and Judge Greenland seemed convinced in the Carteblanche interview that Roux has done enough to get a few years taken off.

 

[Marfa Lights]

I agree - I also can't spot any compelling evidence, but Mannie Witz and Judge Greenland seemed convinced in the Carteblanche interview that Roux has done enough to get a few years taken off.

Oh don't worry, Masipa will have a few mitigation tricks up her sleeve.

 

[akp]

Oh don't worry, Masipa will have a few mitigation tricks up her sleeve.

Probably. But I am still hoping that she will surprise us.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree - I also can't spot any compelling evidence, but Mannie Witz and Judge Greenland seemed convinced in the Carteblanche interview that Roux has done enough to get a few years taken off.

yeah although I took all that to be more the direction of the judicial breeze than any compelling legal reasons

In NZ he would not get any time off

Since the Sentencing Act 2002 came into force, life imprisonment must be imposed for murder unless it would be "manifestly unjust".[3] Cases where it might be unjust involve mercy killings, failed suicide pacts, and "battered defendants" who were subjected to "prolonged and severe abuse".[4

 

[Marfa Lights]

I don't think this has been posted yet-- apologies if it has.

Claire Cohen lays it on the line.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/thetimes...f-pity-nauseating-he-must-own-up-to-his-deeds

 

[Tortoise]

yeah although I took all that to be more the direction of the judicial breeze than any compelling legal reasons

In NZ he would not get any time off

I can see how Roux would wangle "prolonged and severe abuse".

 

[Cherwell]

Agree 100%

Roux is just throwing as much mud on the wall as possible and hoping something sticks.

But my own analysis based on the SCA is that the defence has not established any compelling circumstances.

"Murdering the wrong person" is not compelling.

He's about to be sentenced by a biased and incompetent judge though.

My only hope is that she gives him a risibly light sentence so that it can be appealed and go back to Judge Leach for sentencing.
<modsnip>

 

[Hazy]

I agree with you on everything except what you say about mental condition - in his case.

His mental decline is all about him not wanting to serve time for his crime.

His condition has not warranted a hospital admission while awaiting sentencing - obviously.

He is not wracked with guilt or remorse - it is all pity for himself and stunts to hoodwink the court.

If he is well enough to reduce his meds in prison - according to Roux - he is malingering. If he is well enough to be studying and wanting to work, and performing for the ITV cameras, he is not a mental patient or a "broken man" - he has some outrageous arrogance and denial still. I could say more and worse about him, but you get my drift.

I think he has severe personality disorders, but that does not make him eligible for a reduced sentence, IMO.

I agree with you totally it's just that it may be the thing she uses to justify a decrease in sentence regardless of what we think.
But she may go into loss of fame and fortune territory and other things like he has suffered enough etc etc
This is Masipa remember.

 

[aftermath]

Wouldn't it be normal, though, for someone in his position to be extremely depressed?

To have killed his girlfriend then been accused of her premeditated murder, taken to trial charged with he deliberate murder, accused in the media of terrorising her with a cricket bat/roid rage/bribing officials left right and centre eg to 'lose' blood and urine samples, to have been a media darling only to become a media villain?

To then have his trial broadcast, judged and scrutinised on a global scale, to be accused of faking/acting, to finally be found innocent of her murder but guilty of CH, sentenced to some time in prison....

...to serve time in a prison that said it could cater for his disability but promptly failed to provide a shower chair/stool for five weeks (compromising his right to both dignity and safety - he contracted an infection in his stumps as a result), to have death threats, to feel the need to stay in his cell for safety, to have limited communicaton as a result of where he had to be housed, to complete the required courses, but to have to successfully pursue an apology from a paper for claiming he made 'diva demands ', then having his release into correctional supervision deliberately and unusually delayed...
.... to face the appeal, receive the upgrade to murder knowing that means more time inside, see his con court appeal rejected?

To deal with this on top of being (understandably) abandoned by many friends and having to cope with the knowledge that he is responsible for it all: for Reeva's death, for the horrific suffering she endured, for the unmeasurable pain and suffering her family and friends continue to endure, for the many troubles he has caused his own family, for his own catastrophic fall from grace/career end/ for his own mental health problems? Yes- i should say so.


If his mental health is deteriorating to the point where the head of clinical psychology at weskoppies, Dr Scholtz, thinks he should be hospitalised, I think Masipa has a duty of care to consider that

 

[Sherbert]

To have killed his girlfriend then been accused of her premeditated murder, taken to trial charged with he deliberate murder, accused in the media of terrorising her with a cricket bat/roid rage/bribing officials left right and centre eg to 'lose' blood and urine samples, to have been a media darling only to become a media villain?

To then have his trial broadcast, judged and scrutinised on a global scale, to be accused of faking/acting, to finally be found innocent of her murder but guilty of CH, sentenced to some time in prison....

...to serve time in a prison that said it could cater for his disability but promptly failed to provide a shower chair/stool for five weeks (compromising his right to both dignity and safety - he contracted an infection in his stumps as a result), to have death threats, to feel the need to stay in his cell for safety, to have limited communicaton as a result of where he had to be housed, to complete the required courses, but to have to successfully pursue an apology from a paper for claiming he made 'diva demands ', then having his release into correctional supervision deliberately and unusually delayed...
.... to face the appeal, receive the upgrade to murder knowing that means more time inside, see his con court appeal rejected?

To deal with this on top of being (understandably) abandoned by many friends and having to cope with the knowledge that he is responsible for it all: for Reeva's death, for the horrific suffering she endured, for the unmeasurable pain and suffering her family and friends continue to endure, for the many troubles he has caused his own family, for his own catastrophic fall from grace/career end/ for his own mental health problems? Yes- i should say so.


If his mental health is deteriorating to the point where the head of clinical psychology at weskoppies, Dr Scholtz, thinks he should be hospitalised, I think Masipa has a duty of care to consider that

In short, he's depressed because he's forced to live with the consequences of committing a very serious crime. Do you think that this depression warrants a shorter sentence?

You mention that he's depressed because his appeal to the Constitutional Court was unsuccessful, but, IMO, he should be thanking his lucky stars that, thanks to Masipa's confusion, he managed to escape a finding of dolus directus.

I'm not saying he's not depressed, but one thing that struck me about his interview was how well-rested he looked - I found myself idly wondering if he'd had a facial. Reeva's father, on the other hand, needs no words to convey his suffering - it's written all over the poor man's face.

 

[Hazy]

To have killed his girlfriend then been accused of her premeditated murder, taken to trial charged with he deliberate murder, accused in the media of terrorising her with a cricket bat/roid rage/bribing officials left right and centre eg to 'lose' blood and urine samples, to have been a media darling only to become a media villain?

To then have his trial broadcast, judged and scrutinised on a global scale, to be accused of faking/acting, to finally be found innocent of her murder but guilty of CH, sentenced to some time in prison....

...to serve time in a prison that said it could cater for his disability but promptly failed to provide a shower chair/stool for five weeks (compromising his right to both dignity and safety - he contracted an infection in his stumps as a result), to have death threats, to feel the need to stay in his cell for safety, to have limited communicaton as a result of where he had to be housed, to complete the required courses, but to have to successfully pursue an apology from a paper for claiming he made 'diva demands ', then having his release into correctional supervision deliberately and unusually delayed...
.... to face the appeal, receive the upgrade to murder knowing that means more time inside, see his con court appeal rejected?

To deal with this on top of being (understandably) abandoned by many friends and having to cope with the knowledge that he is responsible for it all: for Reeva's death, for the horrific suffering she endured, for the unmeasurable pain and suffering her family and friends continue to endure, for the many troubles he has caused his own family, for his own catastrophic fall from grace/career end/ for his own mental health problems? Yes- i should say so.


If his mental health is deteriorating to the point where the head of clinical psychology at weskoppies, Dr Scholtz, thinks he should be hospitalised, I think Masipa has a duty of care to consider that

Your post is almost a virtual re run of the *media* interview.

Sure the media go to far at times. It's up to the powers that be to sort them out but celebs are known to use media to enrich themselves and spread their fame. Who will he need If in time he wants to try to raise his profile ?

The media don't tend to talk of killers in glowing terms. That's a given.

Is it not actually worse for a person who is wholly innocent, previously private individual to be vilified in the media ? I'm thinking of a certain UK landlord here. Awful story.

Whether or not you like the states approach they did nothing that was not allowable under SA Law. It's amazing to think that in the very beginning OP didn't even think he should be arrested and questioned.

Why did you stop at CH? It is now murder DE.

he asked to be kept away from mainstream prisoners. One cell that could have held a possible companion for him was turned into a gym. His own TV and doctor.

There are lots of criminals with no friends some are abandoned by their families also. OP's family are there for him he is lucky there.

Remember, there is always someone somewhere much worse of than yourself.

Why is he not or why has he not been in hospital? I do not think he has a condition that cannot be controlled in prison.

 

[Marfa Lights]

To have killed his girlfriend then been accused of her premeditated murder, taken to trial charged with he deliberate murder, accused in the media of terrorising her with a cricket bat/roid rage/bribing officials left right and centre eg to 'lose' blood and urine samples, to have been a media darling only to become a media villain?

To then have his trial broadcast, judged and scrutinised on a global scale, to be accused of faking/acting, to finally be found innocent of her murder but guilty of CH, sentenced to some time in prison....

...to serve time in a prison that said it could cater for his disability but promptly failed to provide a shower chair/stool for five weeks (compromising his right to both dignity and safety - he contracted an infection in his stumps as a result), to have death threats, to feel the need to stay in his cell for safety, to have limited communicaton as a result of where he had to be housed, to complete the required courses, but to have to successfully pursue an apology from a paper for claiming he made 'diva demands ', then having his release into correctional supervision deliberately and unusually delayed...
.... to face the appeal, receive the upgrade to murder knowing that means more time inside, see his con court appeal rejected?

To deal with this on top of being (understandably) abandoned by many friends and having to cope with the knowledge that he is responsible for it all: for Reeva's death, for the horrific suffering she endured, for the unmeasurable pain and suffering her family and friends continue to endure, for the many troubles he has caused his own family, for his own catastrophic fall from grace/career end/ for his own mental health problems? Yes- i should say so.


If his mental health is deteriorating to the point where the head of clinical psychology at weskoppies, Dr Scholtz, thinks he should be hospitalised, I think Masipa has a duty of care to consider that

You make a good case for sympathy for the murderer... but please keep in mind Reeva is dead. Forever. He took everything from her.

Oscar is now 29 years old. If he somehow serves 10 years in prison, he will be 39 years old when released. If he lives to say 89 years of age, then he will still have fifty years of freedom left to enjoy the changing sky, the sea, the stars and a cool breeze blowing on his face. He will be able to enjoy good food and drink with his family and friends again. He will have plenty of time to do good deeds and work with children. At age 39 he may still marry and have children and even grandchildren. It's all up to him how he handles his opportunities for redemption.

 

[Jake18]

To have killed his girlfriend then been accused of her premeditated murder, taken to trial charged with he deliberate murder, accused in the media of terrorising her with a cricket bat/roid rage/bribing officials left right and centre eg to 'lose' blood and urine samples, to have been a media darling only to become a media villain?

To then have his trial broadcast, judged and scrutinised on a global scale, to be accused of faking/acting, to finally be found innocent of her murder but guilty of CH, sentenced to some time in prison....

...to serve time in a prison that said it could cater for his disability but promptly failed to provide a shower chair/stool for five weeks (compromising his right to both dignity and safety - he contracted an infection in his stumps as a result), to have death threats, to feel the need to stay in his cell for safety, to have limited communicaton as a result of where he had to be housed, to complete the required courses, but to have to successfully pursue an apology from a paper for claiming he made 'diva demands ', then having his release into correctional supervision deliberately and unusually delayed...
.... to face the appeal, receive the upgrade to murder knowing that means more time inside, see his con court appeal rejected?

To deal with this on top of being (understandably) abandoned by many friends and having to cope with the knowledge that he is responsible for it all: for Reeva's death, for the horrific suffering she endured, for the unmeasurable pain and suffering her family and friends continue to endure, for the many troubles he has caused his own family, for his own catastrophic fall from grace/career end/ for his own mental health problems? Yes- i should say so.


If his mental health is deteriorating to the point where the head of clinical psychology at weskoppies, Dr Scholtz, thinks he should be hospitalised, I think Masipa has a duty of care to consider that

So if things are so dire why isn't he hospitalised? Presumably because the psychiatrists don't agree with the psychologists. So, really, you could say Masipa that has a duty of care to consider that Dr Scholtz thinks that he mental health is deteriorating to the point that he needs to be hospitalised but the medical team don't agree.

Or - you could say that the punishment for murdering your girlfriend should ft the crime and that Masipa has a duty of care to consider the law.

All this boo hoo my life is over and it's terrible and everyone hates me from Oscar is tedious. He's very very lucky Leach wasn't the judge in the original trial of he'd have been serving 25 years.

 

[seattlechiquita]

I agree with you on everything except what you say about mental condition - in his case.

His mental decline is all about him not wanting to serve time for his crime.

His condition has not warranted a hospital admission while awaiting sentencing - obviously.

He is not wracked with guilt or remorse - it is all pity for himself and stunts to hoodwink the court.

If he is well enough to reduce his meds in prison - according to Roux - he is malingering. If he is well enough to be studying and wanting to work, and performing for the ITV cameras, he is not a mental patient or a "broken man" - he has some outrageous arrogance and denial still. I could say more and worse about him, but you get my drift.

I think he has severe personality disorders, but that does not make him eligible for a reduced sentence, IMO.

Excellent post my friend. The only reason his mental health is ALLEGEDLY deteriorating is him knowing show is almost over.

Dude has problems alright, but not the kind he would have us believe.

 

[jilly]

You make a good case for sympathy for the murderer... but please keep in mind Reeva is dead. Forever. He took everything from her.

Oscar is now 29 years old. If he somehow serves 10 years in prison, he will be 39 years old when released. If he lives to say 89 years of age, then he will still have fifty years of freedom left to enjoy the changing sky, the sea, the stars and a cool breeze blowing on his face. He will be able to enjoy good food and drink with his family and friends again. He will have plenty of time to do good deeds and work with children. At age 39 he may still marry and have children and even grandchildren. It's all up to him how he handles his opportunities for redemption.

Thank you for your post.

From the beginning, Oscar has not changed his stance. It's always been 'oh poor me, the disabled". No responsibility, whatsoever. If he doesn't go to prison for a decent amount of time, he will simply carry on with thinking he is invincible. At the very least with a decent prison sentence, hopefully, he will reflect and make some changes. He needs to go to prison for more than one reason. jmo

 

[Sherbert]

[/B]

So if things are so dire why isn't he hospitalised? Presumably because the psychiatrists don't agree with the psychologists. So, really, you could say Masipa that has a duty of care to consider that Dr Scholtz thinks that he mental health is deteriorating to the point that he needs to be hospitalised but the medical team don't agree.

Or - you could say that the punishment for murdering your girlfriend should ft the crime and that Masipa has a duty of care to consider the law.

All this boo hoo my life is over and it's terrible and everyone hates me from Oscar is tedious. He's very very lucky Leach wasn't the judge in the original trial of he'd have been serving 25 years.

Yes, it's a pity the State didn't have a psychiatrist on board at the sentencing hearing, just to balance the equation and drive your point home to Masipa. Even the clinical psychologist, Leonard Carr, on Carteblanche was very robust and insightful.

Here is a link to an article on the release of the photos of Reeva's injuries:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/17/the-images-of-reeva-steenkamps-corpse-invade-her-privacy-even-in-death

One of the comments was to the effect that it was a savage indictment of Masipa that Barry Steenkamp felt that the only was he could get justice for his daughter was by requesting the release of her photos. Spot on, I thought.

 

[Really?]

Ok.......I'll bite......Oscar didn't know it was reeva in the toilet...he thought he was being robbed. After he fiddled with the fans on the balcony with open doors. The went on and covered the led light on the stereo he heard a window being slid open in the bathroom. Panic.....mode.....what...was .......that?

Grabs gun and makes his way to the bathroom screaming...no...".whispering"....."Reeva,....call the police"...(why not shout this ????).............thud....*advertiser censored*....they've locked themselves now in the loo........get the f outta my house .........bam, bam, bam.......bam.

Phew........"Reeva..............Reeva........REEVAAAAA?......."

If this is the case.....lock him up .....he IS a dangerous man.

 

[mhiforme]

Interesting how he made tapes of the "event". It seems he had to make sure he could listen to them to get his story right BUT then he made so many mistakes. Did the prosecution know he had made tapes?

Not sure what's so interesting about this. Charl Johnson, a witness called by Nel made notes as well. Nothing sinister.