Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 6.13.2016 #2

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Doesn't seem right does it,
She is his rumoured grilfriend ,
i read her twitter nothing recent on Pistorious trial

Maybe it is just a rumour but possibly she's getting an exclusive inside story for publishing lined up which is where rumours might have come from.

If OP gets a tough sentence there will definitely be a Pistorius media blitz. It Kind of doesn't even need saying.
 
I think this is best way it is explained is to put the link to the actual Judgement to clarify , you have not interpreted the SCA Judgement correctly.

It does not matter who was behind the door >> the SCA findings were :
http://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/2...om-the-sca-s-judgment-against-oscar-pistorius

7) On whether dolus eventualis can be applied when someone does not "know" the identity of their victim:

"In this regard, it is necessary to stress that although a perpetrator’s intention to kill must relate to the person killed, this does not mean that a perpetrator must know or appreciate the identity of the victim. A person who causes a bomb to explode in a crowded place will probably be ignorant of the identity of his or her victims, but will nevertheless have the intention to kill those who might die in the resultant explosion.

"...By confining its assessment of dolus eventualis to whether the accused had foreseen that it was Reeva behind the door, the trial court misdirected itself as to the appropriate legal issue."



8 . On the high court failing to take evidence into account:

"In this regard, the failure of the court to take into account the evidence of Captain [Chris] Mangena, a police forensic expert, whose evidence as to the reconstruction of the crime scene was found by the court to have been ‘particularly useful’, is of particular importance.

"All of this was circumstantial evidence crucial to a decision on whether the accused, at the time he fired the fatal four shots, must have foreseen, and therefore did foresee, the potentially fatal consequences of his action. And yet this evidence was seemingly ignored by the trial court in its assessment of the presence of dolus eventualis. Had it been taken into account, the decision in regard to the absence of dolus eventualis may well have been different. In the light of the authorities I have mentioned, to seemingly disregard it must be regarded as an error in law."

I agree wrt conviction DE but my post was wrt sentencing.
 
The way he cross examined those nervous neighbours who were adamant they heard Reeva screaming made me want to smash the tv,
I can not still believe Masipa allowed him to confuse and twist what they were saying, it went too far, she gave Roux too much free rein he took advantage of it, and i was willing Nel to get up and object to Roux's badgering of the witnesses. I thought Masipa must be deaf not to have stepped in.

For me the very first witness , the neighbour who said she heard Blood Curdling screams and it still haunted her was the most damning , so many things wrong with this trial , and can imagine the embarrassment of Judges like Leach having seen that , if he did.

That was the one who swore that something couldn't have occurred when she was asleep wasn't it?
 
Maybe it is just a rumour but possibly she's getting an exclusive inside story for publishing lined up which is where rumours might have come from.

If OP gets a tough sentence there will definitely be a Pistorius media blitz. It Kind of doesn't even need saying.
I expect that will happen too
Oh the Injustice if he has to serve a decent sentence for Murder for them .
 
I may have missed something, but I believe he will be sentenced based on the DE conviction.

That's the conviction Murder DE , but because of the 4 shots , an inexplicable degree of force to which he gave no explanation for, and was under no immediate threat, was suggested to the Court by Prosecution Lawyer Nel as being closer to Dolus Directus , than what Roux was trying to push as being nearer to CH .
 
He's a private Lawyer , getting paid megabucks for representing Pistorius , it's his job to defend ,
as it was Shapiro in OJ Simpson Trial
He was able to get away with twisting things to help his client because the Judge gave him leaway too,
If he could get Pistorius a Culpable Homicide sentence the first time round , he could get any guilty criminal off anything again, he's very good, and it was the Police failures that Nel had to work with too , must have been very frustrating being a Lawyer knowing the guy is guilty as sin of cold blooded murder and Reeva screamed for her life but not being able to convince the Judge because of Lawyers like Roux with little defence , creating a good enough story to rebut that it went the way it did, in Pistorius's favour. Very sad for the Steenkamps.

I hope for their states of mind that Reeva's family get some justice tomorrow and Pistorius does PAY for what he's done.

Whether they’re called counsel, barristers or advocates, no matter what country they practise in, they are all bound by a Code of Conduct/Ethics. The following is from South Africa Bar Council’s Rules of Professional Ethics:

3.2 Duty to Court
Counsel’s duty to divulge to the Court material facts of which he has knowledge is governed on the one hand by his overriding duty not to mislead the Court, and on the other by his duty not to disclose to any person including in a proper case the Court itself, information confided to him as counsel. The application of this principle in particular circumstances and the question of when counsel may be said to have knowledge of facts may be difficult to resolve, and in such cases counsel should refer to the Bar Council for guidance.

http://www.sabar.co.za/GCB-UniformRules-of-Ethics-updated-July2012.pdf

Barry Roux stepped outside the boundaries of his duty to the court on many occasions during this trial.
 
Whether they’re called counsel, barristers or advocates, no matter what country they practise in, they are all bound by a Code of Conduct/Ethics. The following is from South Africa Bar Council’s Rules of Professional Ethics:

3.2 Duty to Court
Counsel’s duty to divulge to the Court material facts of which he has knowledge is governed on the one hand by his overriding duty not to mislead the Court, and on the other by his duty not to disclose to any person including in a proper case the Court itself, information confided to him as counsel. The application of this principle in particular circumstances and the question of when counsel may be said to have knowledge of facts may be difficult to resolve, and in such cases counsel should refer to the Bar Council for guidance.

http://www.sabar.co.za/GCB-UniformRules-of-Ethics-updated-July2012.pdf

Barry Roux stepped outside the boundaries of his duty to the court on many occasions during this trial.
He'll know all the above, so why wasn't he reined in ?
We all saw and heard Roux , he was out of order on many many occasions , and i've read the above kind of thing before, having been gobsmacked he was allowed to badger and confuse the Court and mislead the witnesses into saying things they didn't actually mean and he'd twist whatever they did say, very intimidating the way he did it - , yet it was up to Judge Masipa to put a stop to it and she didn't , for that she should have been made accountable during the first trial.
Why wasn't she ?
This is the question.
 
From Sentencing Guide: South Africa

In addition to the mandatory minimum sentences, the mandatory minimum sentencing regime also restricts the ability of judges to suspend parts of custodial sentences they impose. The Criminal Procedure Act provides that a court, after it convicts a person for a crime for which a prescribed minimum sentence is applicable, may suspend up to five years of the prescribed sentence on the basis of various conditions, including compensation, community service, submission to correctional supervision, good behavior, or any other condition that it deems fit. The mandatory sentencing regime prohibits the suspension of a mandatory minimum sentence

https://www.loc.gov/law/help/sentencing-guidelines/southafrica.php

Sounds like 10 to me. I am sure they are scheming right now about what kind of transfers they can get to the best hospital/psych ward possible. A few suicide overtures and he will need lots of testing again at Weskoppies no doubt. Will be no problem for the Drama Queen.
 
That's the conviction Murder DE , but because of the 4 shots , an inexplicable degree of force to which he gave no explanation for, and was under no immediate threat, was suggested to the Court by Prosecution Lawyer Nel as being closer to Dolus Directus , than what Roux was trying to push as being nearer to CH .

I see where you are going. I agree it should push sentencing toward the realm of DD.
 
That was the one who swore that something couldn't have occurred when she was asleep wasn't it?

Regardless of how the witness testimony was ignored, the wheels of justice are turning...

What does one do on his last day of freedom? I'm thinking wine, women, and song; won't be getting two of those for a long time! :lol:
 
He'll know all the above, so why wasn't he reined in ?
We all saw and heard Roux , he was out of order on many many occasions , and i've read the above kind of thing before, having been gobsmacked he was allowed to badger and confuse the Court and mislead the witnesses into saying things they didn't actually mean and he'd twist whatever they did say, very intimidating the way he did it - , yet it was up to Judge Masipa to put a stop to it and she didn't , for that she should have been made accountable during the first trial.
Why wasn't she ?
This is the question.

Because she doesn’t have the experience or knowledge of the law to be a High Court judge. After the trial she applied for a position as Judge President in another area.

“One year on, however, it was the judge Thokozile Masipa who found herself under gruelling cross-examination during a job interview. ... Mike Hellens, a barrister who sits on the commission, asked how Masipa could be a judge president of a court when she could not control the lawyers in the Pistorius trial”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-thokozile-masipa-judge
 
Sounds like 10 to me. I am sure they are scheming right now about what kind of transfers they can get to the best hospital/psych ward possible. A few suicide overtures and he will need lots of testing again at Weskoppies no doubt. Will be no problem for the Drama Queen.

When you have a relative who is one of South Africa's most well-known criminal profilers and another who is a psychologist you've got the game made.
 
Because the Judge was a lightweight as regards trial procedure

That was very evident, but her selection to take this Case in Court was random so i read when the Trial first started
I wonder how 'random', and why on earth she was even considered capable.
I don't know much about her history but she's only had handful of Cases , mainly domestic violence ? where she was known to come down very heavy on sentencing.
I was hoping she'd have retired so they'd had to have a new Judge to complete this sentencing, no luck there.

I wonder how embarrassed/angry she really is having her ruling overturned by the SCA, but being Professional etc, one would hope she respects and understands that decision.
More importantly that she does consider Captain Magena's testimony and ballistics evidence and has gone through it , and what Pistorius said when on the stand, with a fine tooth comb and she's reached the conclusions most have when we all watched it unravel in Court during the Trial, that 4 shots, pause after first shot , aiming at the person behind the door due to Reeva's injuries , supports Nel's line that this was closer to Dolus Directus than CH .
Or is that being too optimistic ?
 
Regardless of how the witness testimony was ignored, the wheels of justice are turning...

What does one do on his last day of freedom? I'm thinking wine, women, and song; won't be getting two of those for a long time! :lol:

I just hope the wheels don't fall off tomorrow.
 
When you have a relative who is one of South Africa's most well-known criminal profilers and another who is a psychologist you've got the game made.

Don't forget the cousin who was the Doctor taking in Pistorious pills to the Prison, which they never revealed was the true relationship between Pistorius and his Doctor to the Prison or her own Psychologist Stolz, which came out during the sentencing hearing recently.
 
Because she doesn’t have the experience or knowledge of the law to be a High Court judge. After the trial she applied for a position as Judge President in another area.

“One year on, however, it was the judge Thokozile Masipa who found herself under gruelling cross-examination during a job interview. ... Mike Hellens, a barrister who sits on the commission, asked how Masipa could be a judge president of a court when she could not control the lawyers in the Pistorius trial”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/14/oscar-pistorius-trial-thokozile-masipa-judge

This is even more worrying
I hope Judge Leach gives her a call and tells her what she should do
Unlikely i know, but anything to get her head in the right place so Pistorius gets some long overdue Prison time for what he did.
Masipa must be the only human being in SA who didn't see through Pistorius's lies and Roux's tactics, apart from a few who just think golden boy made worst 'mistake' of his life, and even the massive *advertiser censored*-up of a trial won't change that mindset.
 
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