Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

[mrjitty]

Marina Hyde Verified account ‏@MarinaHyde 2h2 hours ago
In South Africa's "World Cup courts" in 2010, two Zimbabweans who robbed some journalists on a Weds were given 15 years on Fri #pistorius

 

[lithgow1]

It was as if the family were on trial for thinking he deliberately killed their daughter and refusing to meet him and regard his apology as sincere. No wonder they don't want to comment.

That was the exact impression I got. She didn't even try to put it into some sort of 'I can understand why they would feel like this' context.

 

[Marfa Lights]

It is but maybe the State will appeal. They would have a good case to.

What gets me most is I could 'get it' if she made sound judgements where you might think 'Well I don't agree but I see your point' but she so often doesn't.

Case in point: her argument that he showed remorse by his public apology and attempts to contact the Steenkamps. You could look at that as sincere, and perhaps it was, but you could also see it as a cynical move, suggested by his counsel to give the impression of remorse. Either or both could be true so how can she say which it is? There is no irrefutable evidence either way. And some could view that apology at the start of the trial, which she referenced today, in a very cynical light given they had not wanted to meet with him at that point to hear his apology and were then forced to sit and listen without any opportunity to say anything about it. She even went on to imply that the fact that they didn't want to meet him somehow added to the veracity of her assumption.

It's these conclusions of hers that carry the weight of a judgement but have no solid factual foundation that get to me.

BIB: It reminded me of Oscar blaming Reeva for not speaking up. More blaming the victim in this case.

 

[Jake18]

Masipa strikes me as stubbornly stupid and incapable of taking the SCA's judgement on board. Silly though, because if there's an appeal OP will likely get lots more time. It would be better for him if she'd given him 8-9 years and let the whole thing die away. Why highlight (again) that your peers think you've made a mistake?

 

[Alyce]

I really have no words to add to all that has been said on here. I am saddened beyond belief at this incredible injustice for Reeva and her family. However, I am not at all surprised, knowing how it works in SA.

As for the person who said Masipa was reading the judgement as though she was seeing it for the first time - I have no doubt she was

 

[mrjitty]

Margie Orford ‏@MargieOrford 2h2 hours ago
Margie Orford Retweeted Claire Phipps
Kill a woman + cry = it's okay, dear #Pistorius

Margie Orford ‏@MargieOrford 2h2 hours ago
Margie Orford Retweeted Robyn Dixon
Like there is btween the charming gentleman-in-public who beats his wife in private Domestic violence works that way

 

[mrjitty]

Masipa strikes me as stubbornly stupid and incapable of taking the SCA's judgement on board. Silly though, because if there's an appeal OP will likely get lots more time. It would be better for him if she'd given him 8-9 years and let the whole thing die away. Why highlight (again) that your peers think you've made a mistake?

Because she already ran her career aground on Pistorian shores and now she's decided to burn it all to the ground.

Make no mistake. Her incompetence on the original OP case scuttled her chances of promotion.

So instead of going safety first she decided to nail her colours to the mast.

Stupid IMO but I think she is that arrogant and useless.

 

[Viper]

Unbelievable...



Reba
@RebaMokgoko
1h
Our Justice system: Mandla Chauke, Killing rhino = 77 years in prison #OscarPistorius, Murders human = 6 years in prison
View details ·

 

[lithgow1]

I won't quote you as it is a long post but just wanted to say that that is an excellent post of yours' LemonMousse. I think it sums up what most people here, and around the world, think about this trial. And you are right - even if this is the end of it in terms of the court system, he will forever be Pistorius the Pariah and considering who he was before that is a form of lifelong punishment.

I guess with Masipa the thing is that she considers she is sentencing someone who shot the wrong person under a misconception and looks at it in that light whereas 'we' see it as an intentional murder of the victim by an out of control man who has since fought tooth and nail and Rand to avoid punishment for his actions. That view, which I am convinced is the accurate one, is what makes us all so disgusted by this whole saga.

 

[Estelle]

Margie Orford ‏@MargieOrford 2h2 hours ago
Margie Orford Retweeted Claire Phipps
Kill a woman + cry = it's okay, dear #Pistorius

Margie Orford ‏@MargieOrford 2h2 hours ago
Margie Orford Retweeted Robyn Dixon
Like there is between the charming gentleman-in-public who beats his wife in private Domestic violence works that way

You are exactly describing a misogynist!

 

[mrjitty]

I won't quote you as it is a long post but just wanted to say that that is an excellent post of yours' LemonMousse. I think it sums up what most people here, and around the world, think about this trial. And you are right - even if this is the end of it in terms of the court system, he will forever be Pistorius the Pariah and considering who he was before that is a form of lifelong punishment.

I guess with Masipa the thing is that she considers she is sentencing someone who shot the wrong person under a misconception and looks at it in that light whereas 'we' see it as an intentional murder of the victim by an out of control man who has since fought tooth and nail and Rand to avoid punishment for his actions. That view, which I am convinced is the accurate one, is what makes us all so disgusted by this whole saga.

But how is shooting the wrong person under a misconception even mitigating?

That's the part I don't get

 

[Cloen]

Because she already ran her career aground on Pistorian shores and now she's decided to burn it all to the ground.

Make no mistake. Her incompetence on the original OP case scuttled her chances of promotion.

So instead of going safety first she decided to nail her colours to the mast.

Stupid IMO but I think she is that arrogant and useless.

I agree with you mrjitty.
Thinking back to Judge Leach when he read out his findings of the Supreme Court, i got the distinct impression he really thought the whole Trial should have been started again, but that was going to be totally impractical, but that was his ideal. He had to make the most of what he had to put Masipa's incompetence right, so he did his best, but he so emphasised the Dolus Directus element in not so many words by saying that Captain Magena's ballistics evidence was overlooked by Masipa, the shots, the trajectories, the door, where Reeva was hit, was standing, but this even today seemed to be skimmed over in Masipa coming to today's sentencing. She focussed far more on Pistorius the person, or two people , the disabled athlete, with and without his prosthetics and his rehabilitation .

There are many arguments Nel could give to the Supreme Court , but wouldn't Masipa have to grant Appeal today, she said she was there today to hear if either side wanted to, and that has not happened. I understand that the State still have 14 days in which to Appeal though,but why not take that opportunity today ?

 

[LemonMousse]

But how is shooting the wrong person under a misconception even mitigating?

That's the part I don't get

This shows that she still doesn't get it.

Identity is irrelevant to a finding of DE...therefore doesn't matter who he didn't think it was. He knew there was a human being in the toilet and he chose to shoot them four times without justification. Therefore, (IMO) any mitigation that highlights in any way the identity of the victim, is based on a flawed understanding of what DE means.

I think there must be scope on this basis for them to appeal.

 

[lithgow1]

I agree with you mrjitty.
Thinking back to Judge Leach when he read out his findings of the Supreme Court, i got the distinct impression he really thought the whole Trial should have been started again, but that was going to be totally impractical, but that was his ideal. He had to make the most of what he had to put Masipa's incompetence right, so he did his best, but he so emphasised the Dolus Directus element in not so many words by saying that Captain Magena's ballistics evidence was overlooked by Masipa, the shots, the trajectories, the door, where Reeva was hit, was standing, but this even today seemed to be skimmed over in Masipa coming to today's sentencing. She focussed far more on Pistorius the person, or two people , the disabled athlete, with and without his prosthetics and his rehabilitation .

There are many arguments Nel could give to the Supreme Court , but wouldn't Masipa have to grant Appeal today, she said she was there today to hear if either side wanted to, and that has not happened. I understand that the State still have 14 days in which to Appeal though,but why not take that opportunity today ?

This is what the Guardian said. Maybe she was there if they wanted to make an instant decision, which the defence may have done, but I would think the State would want to have a think about it. Anyway, if this is right they have two weeks.

The state has not yet said whether it intends to appeal on the grounds the sentence was too lenient (Pistorius’ sentence for his original conviction for culpable homicide was five years). The state has 14 days to decide.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...storius-sentenced-murder-reeva-steenkamp-live

 

[Cloen]

It was as if the family were on trial for thinking he deliberately killed their daughter and refusing to meet him and regard his apology as sincere. No wonder they don't want to comment.

The final insult

 

[mrjitty]

The State needs time to run its internal processes

e.g to seek internal political support to appeal
assess likelihood of success

etc

 

[mrjitty]

This shows that she still doesn't get it.

Identity is irrelevant to a finding of DE...therefore doesn't matter who he didn't think it was. He knew there was a human being in the toilet and he chose to shoot them four times without justification. Therefore, (IMO) any mitigation that highlights in any way the identity of the victim, is based on a flawed understanding of what DE means.

I think there must be scope on this basis for them to appeal.

Completely agree

She sentenced as if this was an accident (i.e, a negligent shooting) rather than murder

 

[lithgow1]

This shows that she still doesn't get it.

Identity is irrelevant to a finding of DE...therefore doesn't matter who he didn't think it was. He knew there was a human being in the toilet and he chose to shoot them four times without justification. Therefore, (IMO) any mitigation that highlights in any way the identity of the victim, is based on a flawed understanding of what DE means.

I think there must be scope on this basis for them to appeal.

That was just my wording though and in trying to make the point that we see the events of that evening differently to her, I may have 'misquoted' her.

 

[zoran]

One could be forgiven for thinking that she was inviting an appeal with that sentence, if the NPA don't act I will be disgusted.

Oh they would love to but going for round 3 just for the sake of maybe 1-2 more years? and 2/3rds off that for a model prisoner.. Im afraid they think they will look stupid in the eyes of the tax payer
Hate to say it but its over and will be mostly forgotten as soon as the press ease up

 

[LemonMousse]

That was just my wording though and in trying to make the point that we see the events of that evening differently to her, I may have 'misquoted' her.

Oh, I agree with you. (I didn't really watch the whole thing because I'm at work and Enca played up a bit).

She simply hasn't been able to think her way out of "but it was an accident" and still seeks to apply that to a finding of DE.

Thing is...the FACT of a DE finding means that there was no accident.

She is stupid and arrogant, in my opinion. Until now I didn't think she was either. Anyone can make mistakes and use wonky logic from time to time....but twice?

Put Leach on the case, South Africa