Oscar Pistorius - Sentencing - 7.6.2016

[Jake18]

Completely agree

She sentenced as if this was an accident (i.e, a negligent shooting) rather than murder

It's as though she felt the need to rebut the SCA's findings in order to have the last word. Stupid and stubborn and unprofessional. But IF the State appeal it's actually the best outcome. The SCA will sentence appropriately.

 

[zoran]

I believe it was a mistake for Nell to state he would appeal if less than 8 years by sending out a message that 8 years is acceptable and now he has to justify an appeal on a 2 year gap rather than a 9 year gap

 

[Hazy]

It's as though she felt the need to rebut the SCA's findings in order to have the last word. Stupid and stubborn and unprofessional. But IF the State appeal it's actually the best outcome. The SCA will sentence appropriately.

She ignored this from SCA


[54]​In order to disturb the natural inference that a person intends the probable consequences of his actions, the accused was required to establish at least a factual foundation for his alleged genuine belief of an imminent attack upon him. This the accused did not do. Consequently, although frightened, the accused armed himself to shoot if there was someone in the bathroom and when there was, he did. In doing so he must have foreseen, and therefore did foresee that the person he was firing at behind the door might be fatally injured, yet he fired without having a rational or genuine fear that his life was in danger. The defence of putative private or self-defence cannot be sustained and is no bar to a finding that he acted with dolus eventualis in causing the death of the deceased.

 

[mrjitty]

I believe it was a mistake for Nell to state he would appeal if less than 8 years by sending out a message that 8 years is acceptable and now he has to justify an appeal on a 2 year gap rather than a 9 year gap

Disagree

That statement has no legal standing

 

[mrjitty]

She ignored this from SCA


[54]​In order to disturb the natural inference that a person intends the probable consequences of his actions, the accused was required to establish at least a factual foundation for his alleged genuine belief of an imminent attack upon him. This the accused did not do. Consequently, although frightened, the accused armed himself to shoot if there was someone in the bathroom and when there was, he did. In doing so he must have foreseen, and therefore did foresee that the person he was firing at behind the door might be fatally injured, yet he fired without having a rational or genuine fear that his life was in danger. The defence of putative private or self-defence cannot be sustained and is no bar to a finding that he acted with dolus eventualis in causing the death of the deceased.

Agree

Per SCA

1. He did not know who was in the toilet
2. We do not know his reason for firing
3. He held no genuine fear for his life

So none of these can mitigate

 

[Cloen]

Completely agree

She sentenced as if this was an accident (i.e, a negligent shooting) rather than murder

She veered to DE bordering CH< negligent killing, probably written out so a 7 year old understood it in Roux's submitted paperwork, to persuade her.
She ignored the more than subtle hints from Judge Leach that she HAD TO refer to the Ballistics evidence , 4 shots etc which was as Nel pushed was DE bordering Dolus Directus.

If she had been clever, and fair , she'd have given the 8 years that the Prosecution could have been content with , and gone down the middle , instead she favoured the Defence . The woman is a disgrace and everything i'm reading since is basically saying she got it wrong AGAIN, and was far too lenient.

The underlying frustration too is because she didn't take any consideration of the neighbours hearing Reeva screaming in the first trial, which many just will never get over or understand - and she'd considered the idea that all the womans screams heard were all Oscar,

which all makes a mockery of getting Justice for Reeva and her family , a complete insult to what she must have suffered that night when he terrorised her.
Oscar does now deserve and Oscar for his pathetic facial expressions throughout and his helpless looks and timely face palming in all the right places when infront of Masipa in Court, got to hand it to him , he is a VERY GOOD LIAR.

 

[mrjitty]

It should be no surprise that she gave no consideration to the SCA judgment even though Nel referred to it extensively.

 

[Trotterly]

Yeah I know

I shouldn't really be surprised.

A friend of mine worked at Refuge and the stories that she told me about that were enough to blow my mind.

So we know women can't be safe, but when they actually catch the guy read handed with gun and body, you would think they could manage to achieve justice

Do you think your experiences may have coloured your objectivity wrt this case?

 

[Fluffykins]

Guardian again:

The state has not yet said whether it intends to appeal on the grounds the sentence was too lenient (Pistorius’ sentence for his original conviction for culpable homicide was five years). The state has 14 days to decide.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...storius-sentenced-murder-reeva-steenkamp-live

Thank you very much for that advice (and to the posters since who have also mentioned it).

It's a relief to know they have some time up their sleeve. I would otherwise have gone to bed tonight upset at the thought that if they haven't already appealed, that must mean they're not going to, and I would have been thinking that pretty much proves the world has gone mad. Knowing there is a fortnight in which to appeal, at least there is still hope for a more just sentence.

 

[lithgow1]

I believe it was a mistake for Nell to state he would appeal if less than 8 years by sending out a message that 8 years is acceptable and now he has to justify an appeal on a 2 year gap rather than a 9 year gap

My understanding is that it was a woman from the SCA who said that and she later clarified and said her comment had been taken out of context. Sorry can't provide a link but it was discussed here at the time. I think the paltry and insulting one extra year for murder is a solid foundation and if the overall opinion in the legal world is disturbed by her judgement there will be both public and professional appetite for an appeal. It will certainly be interesting to see the arguments put fwd and the reasoning of the judge assigned if it does proceed.

 

[Viper]

So true. Nel has no choice but to appeal...


Debz
@BubsandJacks
21m
@adjruk @piersmorgan She's set a very dangerous precedent today. Murder is no longer a serious offence in SA.
View conversation ·

 

[zoran]

My understanding is that it was a woman from the SCA who said that and she later clarified and said her comment had been taken out of context. Sorry can't provide a link but it was discussed here at the time. I think the paltry and insulting one extra year for murder is a solid foundation and if the overall opinion in the legal world is disturbed by her judgement there will be both public and professional appetite for an appeal. It will certainly be interesting to see the arguments put fwd and the reasoning of the judge assigned if it does proceed.

Thanks for that . This makes much more sense than Nell showing his cards before the sentencing even took place. I hope its the case

 

[Viper]

G'day Trooper! Can you believe this garbage?!

 

[Interested Bystander]

This from well known lawyer William Booth concerned me more than a little. Not only does he state that the Prosecution are not going to appeal (how does he know this) but also he infers that OP could have his sentence converted to correctional supervision.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...ss-than-6-years-in-prison-top-lawyer-20160706

&#8220;Booth said that if a person's parole release date was less than five years into the future, the department could request that they be taken to court for the sentence to be turned into correctional supervision&#8221;

 

[Trooper]

I had to turn off the laptop , climb down from the treehouse , and go and do the ironing ... that was less painful than Masipa's judgement.

I fully expect Nel to appeal that sentence. God alone knows how June and Barry bear it.

I suspect that across South Africa, particularly outside Pretoria, that 6 years didn't go down too well.

Cheers to Sooz, Really, Viper, Prime, Judi, all the usual suspects.. I reckon we'll still be here, moaning about Oscar in 2020.

 

[LemonMousse]

I see that there's a Pistorian elsewhere claiming that there's "not a shred of evidence" that OP knew it was Reeva.

Not a shred? Four witnesses hearing female screams is evidence. Fact. If a Pistorian doesn't find it compelling, fine. But it's absurd, not to mention downright dishonest, to claim there's "not a shred of evidence".

I wonder if such a person's objectivity is obliterated by their need to support their own arguments (no matter how flawed). Thinking away evidence is a million miles away from being "objective".

 

[zoran]

This from well known lawyer William Booth concerned me more than a little. Not only does he state that the Prosecution are not going to appeal (how does he know this) but also he infers that OP could have his sentence converted to correction supervision.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/pistorius-likely-to-serve-less-than-6-years-in-prison-top

&#8220;Booth said that if a person's parole release date was less than five years into the future, the department could request that they be taken to court for the sentence to be turned into correctional supervision&#8221;

says he is on the team

Andrew Fawcett, a member of Oscar Pistorius' defense team speaks outside the Pretoria High Court on Wednesday, saying that there are no plans to appeal Pistorius' six-year prison sentence for murdering his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. Watch.

 

[Interested Bystander]

says he is on the team

Andrew Fawcett, a member of Oscar Pistorius' defense team speaks outside the Pretoria High Court on Wednesday, saying that there are no plans to appeal Pistorius' six-year prison sentence for murdering his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. Watch.

Sorry, who is on the team? Did you misread my post?

 

[Viper]

I had to turn off the laptop , climb down from the treehouse , and go and do the ironing ... that was less painful than Masipa's judgement.

I fully expect Nel to appeal that sentence. God alone knows how June and Barry bear it.

I suspect that across South Africa, particularly outside Pretoria, that 6 years didn't go down too well.

Cheers to Sooz, Really, Viper, Prime, Judi, all the usual suspects.. I reckon we'll still be here, moaning about Oscar in 2020.

2020 is a long way off. Karma has lots of time to do its thing with Pistorius, should be delicious!

 

[Trotterly]

I see that there's a Pistorian elsewhere claiming that there's "not a shred of evidence" that OP knew it was Reeva.

Not a shred? Four witnesses hearing female screams is evidence. Fact. If a Pistorian doesn't find it compelling, fine. But it's absurd, not to mention downright dishonest, to claim there's "not a shred of evidence".

I wonder if such a person's objectivity is obliterated by their need to support their own arguments (no matter how flawed). Thinking away evidence is a million miles away from being "objective".

I quoted Masipa from today.

I agree with it.

ETA I must apologise here -sorry wrong poster.