PA - Amtrak train from Washington crashes in Philadelphia, May 2015

[galiuro]

had a concussion that knocked me out. dont remember a few minutes before the actual crash thru a couple hours afterward...was in and out of consciousness, had perserveration(kept asking same question over and over) again for a couple of hours. I think concussions are very individual in what sort of symptoms one displays...also I slowly regained some memory of right before my accident but years later absolutely nothing about the accident itself.

 

[Inthedetails]

I know that there have been responses to this...but there are no HOLES in that windshield. In order for a projectile to get to the engineer, it would have had to make a hole. All we see is a tempered glass windshield that has been damaged by something. And of course, that projectile would still be in the cockpit - and they would have the answer.

And I also agree with the poster who said that the video should have proof, since it was a front facing camera.

I just don't believe that this man would have been so distracted by something hitting his windshield that he forgot where he was.

I really wish someone could answer how far down the track you can see. This is a main point that I haven't seen answered.

IMO, this is a tragic accident caused by human error. Like most of you. Is it better if he got distracted by something and forgot where he was along the track? If an engineer is so easily distracted, does that mean you want them in charge of YOUR train?

ETA - and to those that think he was so distracted...is it OK that when someone is so distracted, they choose to speed up? I would think instinct would be to slow down to see if there was more complicated damage.

I still am thinking it was an accident, but that in NO WAY means that I think it was okay, whatever the cause of distraction was.

 

[CARIIS]

So the SEPTA train gets hit with something and comes to a stop (and the window is shattered). Conductor on Amtrak overhears radio communications with SEPTA train about incident and Amtrak passes through the same area shortly after and then soon after that Amtrak derails? Do I have this correct?

Your missing one of the disasters that night that on three trains that went through that area within 20 minutes - that is not acodence - easy some kids were tossing rocks at trains and oppssss................

I hope they catch em ...............................

 

[CARIIS]

I personally don't see his online postings about train safety to be suspicious. The guy's a train engineer. His entire job revolves around getting a train safely from point A to point B. It stands to reason that making trains safer is something he would care about, and I seriously doubt this is a case of him "trying to prove his point".

My best guess is that, whether or not there was a projectile that distracted him, this is a case of very simple human error with disastrous consequences. A little more complex than a case of someone hitting the gas instead of the brakes, but similar. As others have mentioned, perhaps he was distracted and thought it had already gone around the curve. Maybe he just wasn't paying attention to whether or not he was accelerating or decelerating. All of those are possibilities and make a lot more sense than he was trying to justify his concerns about train safety by crashing his train.

don't see his online postings about train safety to be suspicious.

I sooo agree with you --great post --.........he loved trains the way I love planes - I get it! You get it! Passion.................

And it matches, after days, person after person having nothing but warm and wonderful relationship with him.

Repsected, thought of as bright............I totally vote if he is ok, her will be a very witty fast talking person....bright --- dont know where I get that from tho.....his writing is nicely done, it flows - that is a skill set .........usually nidicative of inteligence IMO.....

 

[CARIIS]

He knew the area and knew the speed limits. He had no health issues and claims he wasn't fatigued. When he went to talk to investigators after the crash, they quizzed him on speed limits and he knew all of that, despite claiming to have amnesia around the time of the accident.
I find it hard to believe he somehow thought he already passed the curve.

Different flavors of amesnsia - many. His is so congruent with after trauma black out. All the way around - it was a very violent and agreesive, and loud and scary experioence - life changing - has to be.............

 

[CARIIS]

Anterograde amnesia is characterized by a reduced ability to form new memories after a brain injury, which may lead to decreased attention and inaccurate perception. Anterograde memory is frequently the last function to return after the recovery from a loss of consciousness (LOC). Following the recovery of consciousness patients may be unable to recall little or anything that occurred for days, weeks, or even months after their injury.



Retrograde amnesia (RGA) is characterized by the partial or total loss of the ability to recall events that occurred during the period prior to brain injury. RGA may extend backwards for seconds, minutes, hours, days, months or even years depending on the severity of the injury. The symptoms of retrograde amnesia may improve over time (1).

Read more: http://www.momsteam.com/health-safe...or-concussion-recovery-severity#ixzz3aKUi92S4
​

 

[CARIIS]

I know that there have been responses to this...but there are no HOLES in that windshield. In order for a projectile to get to the engineer, it would have had to make a hole. All we see is a tempered glass windshield that has been damaged by something. And of course, that projectile would still be in the cockpit - and they would have the answer.

And I also agree with the poster who said that the video should have proof, since it was a front facing camera.

I just don't believe that this man would have been so distracted by something hitting his windshield that he forgot where he was.

I really wish someone could answer how far down the track you can see. This is a main point that I haven't seen answered.

IMO, this is a tragic accident caused by human error. Like most of you. Is it better if he got distracted by something and forgot where he was along the track? If an engineer is so easily distracted, does that mean you want them in charge of YOUR train?

ETA - and to those that think he was so distracted...is it OK that when someone is so distracted, they choose to speed up? I would think instinct would be to slow down to see if there was more complicated damage.

And I visualize it as the windsheild totally out of the blue, in total blackness, just blows up - the noise in and of itself has to be a startle- its reflex - not controllable.....................

 

[CARIIS]

had a concussion that knocked me out. dont remember a few minutes before the actual crash thru a couple hours afterward...was in and out of consciousness, had perserveration(kept asking same question over and over) again for a couple of hours. I think concussions are very individual in what sort of symptoms one displays...also I slowly regained some memory of right before my accident but years later absolutely nothing about the accident itself.

I would think that is a very scary place to be. Hats off to you for moving forward!

 

[FranP]

He knew the area and knew the speed limits. He had no health issues and claims he wasn't fatigued. When he went to talk to investigators after the crash, they quizzed him on speed limits and he knew all of that, despite claiming to have amnesia around the time of the accident.
I find it hard to believe he somehow thought he already passed the curve.

It is possible, depending on how many routes he regularly runs - my husband has top know around 20 odd routes. I can quite easily believe that he was distracted for some reason (tiredness, something hit the windscreen and startled him, doing something else), and just lost track (sorry, couldn't find another word that fitted) of where he was on the route and thought he'd passed the curve. According to my husband, who is a train driver, it happens way more than you might think (mostly missing where to stop for red lights/passing red lights, places where there are speed changes, etc).

I don't know about the US, but certainly over here, drivers can work 11 hour days, 13 days straight, up at all hours of the day/night. That plays hell with concentration and memory. Frankly, I'm sometimes amazed there aren't more incidents.

 

[CARIIS]

I know the accident segment was the return. ANyone know the dpearture time of the run over there - it would be fascinating to know how long his workday was - I vote pretty intense, or a better word- abusive

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, that was reported from the start. But projectile wouldn't cause the train to accelerate as it did. The other two trains that got hit didn't accelerate. This engineer was reportedly super concerned about safety, posting about safety, etc. Also experienced engineer. It's not uncommon for trains to be hit by something. So it doesn't make much sense to me that he would be so freaked out by something hitting a window.

Have you ever been in a locomotive engine? They are massive and the ride isn't smooth. If a projectile hit the window, it may very well startle him to the point he inadvertently accelerated. Trains are very, very dangerous places to work. My dad was a safety official with the FRA. The reason the agency was created was to address railroad safety.

JMO

 

[Falcon500]

I know the accident segment was the return. ANyone know the dpearture time of the run over there - it would be fascinating to know how long his workday was - I vote pretty intense, or a better word- abusive

Probably a twelve hour work day. He had already made a Washington to New York run where his cab control capability had gone out just after he had left New York (Cab Control is the ability for the engineer to see the aspects of the signals before the train reaches the signal). So on the trip to Washington he had to be extremely vigilant to see each signal coming up sometimes at speeds over 100 mph. Had the problem been detected at New York the locomotive would have been replaced.

When he got to Washington he was frazzled and complained about the shoddy equipment. His cab controls worked on the return trip to New York because he was on a different train.

Amtrak engineers typically work twelve hour days and make two runs from New York to DC and then back again.

 

[stormshine]

People are searching for anything to show either that this guy caused the accident on purpose or that he was completely not at fault. Why? Because the alternative, that a totally decent and competent person could make such a lethal mistake, is not a pleasant thought.

 

[MyBelle]

People are searching for anything to show either that this guy caused the accident on purpose or that he was completely not at fault. Why? Because the alternative, that a totally decent and competent person could make such a lethal mistake, is not a pleasant thought.

There is another alternative: this was genuinely an accident triggered by something not in his control.

JMO

 

[Nova]

Most attorneys will advise their clients that it is better to say one "doesn't remember or can't recall" certain circumstances of a particular incident rather than incriminate themselves with questionable comments or statements that become subject to contentious cross-examination.

Not only cross-ex but charges of perjury and/or obstruction. IANAL, but I believe the courts have ruled that the Fifth Amendment allows us to remain silent, but it is illegal to lie to LE. (LE, of course, has virtual carte blanche to lie to us.)

(I've also said that lots of concussion victims can't remember the events immediately before the concussion, so the above isn't my conclusion about Bostian. Frankly, I don't know. I was just seconding BetteDavisEyes' remarks.)

 

[renee300]

An engineer that used to travel this route was on MSNBC earlier. He indicated that it would be normal to be accelerating in that stretch. He noted what was missing what appeared to be missing was the normal process of applying the break leading up to the curve. Maybe he was distracted by the rock or something else at the time he should have been applying the brake.

 

[jjenny]

"Getting “rocked,” as locomotive engineers call it, is so common on the Northeast Corridor that trains long had metal grills over their windshields to act as armor. These days, thick glass is specifically designed to withstand the impact of a cinder block. Amtrak officials say trains are pelted in the neighborhoods around of the crash site monthly."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/u...eyond-amtrak-train-and-philadelphia.html?_r=0

 

[jjenny]

Have you ever been in a locomotive engine? They are massive and the ride isn't smooth. If a projectile hit the window, it may very well startle him to the point he inadvertently accelerated. Trains are very, very dangerous places to work. My dad was a safety official with the FRA. The reason the agency was created was to address railroad safety.

JMO

These trains are equipped with outbound video (meaning it shows the view of the rails the engineer would see it). Investigators watched it but didn't see any objects hitting a window. The only thing they are basing this object story on is the radio conversation conductor supposedly overheard. They have several ways to verify that which they haven't done when they released this story to the public. The outbound video of the train was watched but no objects were noticed.
The engineer claims he doesn't remember any projectiles (of course he claims he doesn't remember anything after leaving North Philadelphia station). They haven't yet listened to this radio transmission or talked to the SERTA engineer.

 

[MyBelle]

"Getting “rocked,” as locomotive engineers call it, is so common on the Northeast Corridor that trains long had metal grills over their windshields to act as armor. These days, thick glass is specifically designed to withstand the impact of a cinder block. Amtrak officials say trains are pelted in the neighborhoods around of the crash site monthly."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/17/u...eyond-amtrak-train-and-philadelphia.html?_r=0

Yes, it is common just as tossing rocks off bridges over the Interstate became so common that large fences had to be installed. Throwing anything at a vehicle is a dangerous distraction to the driver. Just because it doesn't break the glass doesn't make it less a distraction. It does make a sound when it strikes the vehicle and that would startle anyone.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

These trains are equipped with outbound video (meaning it shows the view of the rails the engineer would see it). Investigators watched it but didn't see any objects hitting a window. The only thing they are basing this object story on is the radio conversation conductor supposedly overheard. They have several ways to verify that which they haven't done when they released this story to the public. The outbound video of the train was watched but no objects were noticed.
The engineer claims he doesn't remember any projectiles (of course he claims he doesn't remember anything after leaving North Philadelphia station). They haven't yet listened to this radio transmission or talked to the SERTA engineer.

The account from Johns Hopkins student Justin Landis makes him the third person to report a projectile hitting a train Tuesday night in that area, and comes a day after the National Transportation Safety Board said investigators were working to determine whether something struck the doomed Amtrak train before it derailed.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/am...amtrak-says-his-train-was-also-struck-n360031