PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #4

[Arkay]

This hearing was not about holding anyone accountable. It was about satisfying the atavistic need among members of the public to see someone - anyone - severely punished when bad things happen.

Completely agree that the public has an atavistic and unquenchable need to find someone tangible to blame.

However, I disagree that this was the sole or even major purpose of the hearing. IMO, seeking answers was truly the goal, as a first step toward comprehending how this happened.

Putting aside for a moment all things Trump—if I were Corey’s family, I would be desperately trying to fathom how my husband/father/fireman went to a rally and ended up with his head blown off.

Answers have to come from somewhere, and answers supposedly come when someone is asked the right questions.

IMO the SS director was evasive even about the basics. Not everything asked of her was top-secret insider information that would reveal means and methods to a future assassin. She was stalling. Maybe she didn’t have all the answers herself, but she had some.

If Cheatle really didn’t have any answers then IMO she did have to step down.

 

[Ruminations]

I heard an interview with Ralph Basham, SS Director under GW Bush. Among other things, he said he found Cheatle's testimony "responsible" and that he was "shocked that Congress went ahead with a hearing" at this way premature date.

This hearing was not about holding anyone accountable. It was about satisfying the atavistic need among members of the public to see someone - anyone - severely punished when bad things happen. Former directors lived in more rational times, when learning from mistakes was the priority.

As a society, we have regressed since then. We are headed for a more primitive existence, I'm afraid.

Today I learned that 'atavistic' is nearly the same word in Russian- it just has Russian adjective endings.

------

I agree that the hearing and resignation were not about learning from mistakes. But I'm thinking the grilling and resignation are not that unusual or bad as part of a fulsome assessment of what went wrong and what improvements could be made. It's a symbol that there will be change, and if there is actual reform to go along with the symbolic change in leadership, it could be good.

If the grilling and resignation are ALL that happens- well, there will be no change, which is sad.

But grilling and resignation CAN come with appropriate action and be an appropriate part of it. I really want this to be handled in a respectful, bipartisan way. I have a lot of respect for the tradition of independent, non-partisan civil service organizations. I really want this resignation to just be a normal part of that very tradition.

MOO

 

[Luna20]

If she would have gotten in front of it, I don’t think she would have been perceived as defiant.

She did eventually contact Trump, which is commendable. Trump said she was very nice.

 

[nerosleuth]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1815784437608521951

https://twitter.com/x/status/1815780662734979584

Thanks for posting the videos Dotta.

This morning, I was watching Tne National Desk on tv where they aired the first video of the 70 year old man on the rooftop.

As anyone can see, that roof was almost flat and it wasn't steep or sloped at all.

Now if a 70 year old man can get up on that roof with no trouble at all, I don't see why the SS couldn't get up on that same roof.

The second video is sure to raise a lot of questions with a very good view of that rooftop from an adjacent building and water tower.

Both videos were very good eye opening videos.

 

[Knox]

Thomas Matthew Crooks' Father Surfaces For First Time Since Trump Shooting

Life goes on for Thomas Matthew Crooks' father in the wake of his son's death following an assassination attempt on Donald Trump ... because he was just seen in public for the first time since the deadly rally.

www.tmz.com

 

[Ruminations]

If she would have gotten in front of it, I don’t think she would have been perceived as defiant.

She did eventually contact Trump, which is commendable. Trump said she was very nice.

FWIW, she does not come off to me as defiant.

MOO

 

[LadyL]

Apparently no one could be trusted that day except the agents that personally shielded the president with their own bodies. The cascading series of failures are so vast and so aggregious that you can't blame folks for thinking there might be more than just incompetence here. The veil of secrecy put forward by the SS head made things exponentially worse. We need answers now.

well and the sniper who took the kill shot

I watched the entire meeting, there is also a transcript.

The SS NEVER had a group meeting. They met with the PSP 7/8 and reviewed the sight. PSP mentions coverage for these buildings, a group of red buildings and the water tower. They were told local LE was responsible.

The PSP had a "contract" w/SS for the motorcade ( and led by Pittsburgh PD) and two entry points and placing 2 PSP cars near the entrance. They were paid. A total of 32 PSP.

LE consist of several small agencies. We do not know the terms of their "contact", other than outside perimeter.

PSP did a final walk thru w/SS 7/11 and the site was left unsecured. Volunteers (60) decorated the stage the night before, invented, unsupervised.

SS and PSP had a control room for communication.
This is where everything gets really dicey. None of the agencies could communicate with each other, everything had to go through the control center.

When the text photos of the suspect, with a range finder and bike, PSP was given another number to forward to, 45 min before Trump took the stage. No one knows who the number belong to.

The committee referred and read an act by Congress after 911 to create a National system. They even funded it. (didn't catch the name of the ACT).
Moo
More to come..

sorry what is PSP?

 

[Annicade]

well and the sniper who took the kill shot


sorry what is PSP?

Pennsylvania State Police

 

[LadyL]

Moo....
I think SS dumped on the local LE team. They designated a very large area with multiple buildings for local LE to cover. They had limited staff, they are small depts with no experience/training in protecting a former president, as stated by the PSP director.

I can't remember which representative stated, he was a sniper and the in a perimeter should have been expanded.

SS had two large events they covered the same day. One with Harris and one with Jill. Biden. Trump was given 3 extra SS for 10s of thousands in an open area. Jill was given 12 for an indoor very secure casino ballroom with 400 people.

I'd say they definitely shorted this event.

NO ONE had the site plan but the SS and they have not released.

Moo

[bbm]

where can I find the official tally of people at the rally?

 

[LadyL]

Shocking new footage shows local cops and a Secret Service agent standing over the dead body of would-be Donald Trump assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks as they appeared to confirm the 20-year sniper was identified as a suspicious person before he opened fire.

The bodycam video, released by Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley, shows Crooks’ lifeless body as a pool of blood trails along the roof where he wounded Trump and killed a hero firefighter earlier this month.

Graphic video shows Thomas Crooks dead moments after Trump assassination attempt, confirms Secret Service was warned

The new video put online by Iowa Sen. Chuck Grassley shows part of Crooks’ lifeless body as a pool of blood trails along the roof where he shot at Trump earlier this month.

nypost.com

shooter was definitely wearing shorts if there was still any debate about that

 

[Donswife48]

Since the news agencies are so wildly different in their stories, I will take as the truth anything that was said in the congressional hearing. SS is dumping on the local LE, but concerns were passed on to SS, who apparently didn't act on them. I don't know the size of Butler County LE resources, but most smaller agencies simply do not have sharp shooters, or swat teams in their force. Obviously, it looks lopsided to send the larger number of SS agents to safeguard a Philadelphia event with Jill Biden, when I assume Philadelphia would have more local LE with experience than Butler County. Why was Trumps larger rally shorted? Obviously, Cheatle was not directly informed or involved, but she needed to step up immediately and step out in front of all the inaccurate stories. This is why she had to go. We simply cannot portray the USA as an unsafe country to the world. JMO

 

[Tricia]

Thread is closed for the night. It will reopen tomorrow

 

[Knitty]

Thread is open.

 

[sds71]

FBI Director Christopher WRAY gives details about Trump assassination attempt shooter's drone:

It was recovered in his vehicle with a controller; around 3:50 pm-4pm the shooter was flying the drone around the area – not over the stage but about 200 yards away from that area

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816122258559058105

https://twitter.com/x/status/1816124152413040654

 

[CCJD]

Since the news agencies are so wildly different in their stories, I will take as the truth anything that was said in the congressional hearing. SS is dumping on the local LE, but concerns were passed on to SS, who apparently didn't act on them. I don't know the size of Butler County LE resources, but most smaller agencies simply do not have sharp shooters, or swat teams in their force. Obviously, it looks lopsided to send the larger number of SS agents to safeguard a Philadelphia event with Jill Biden, when I assume Philadelphia would have more local LE with experience than Butler County. Why was Trumps larger rally shorted? Obviously, Cheatle was not directly informed or involved, but she needed to step up immediately and step out in front of all the inaccurate stories. This is why she had to go. We simply cannot portray the USA as an unsafe country to the world. JMO

BBM

Jill Biden was not in Philly. She was in Pittsburgh.

Jill Biden revs up Italian Sons and Daughters of America in Pittsburgh

First Lady Jill Biden riled up a group of supporters Saturday at the Rivers Casino in Pittsburgh, speaking about the grit of her Italian ancestors and telling the crowd that her husband, President Joe Biden, is just as much a fighter. “He’s making sure that no matter where you start

triblive.com

 

[Waxahachie1]

As a matter of policy I would say No. It's not that you can't ever rely upon them, but that you can't count on 3rd parties to do something like that to the level that would be in compliance with the Secret Service's mission, which it has to be 100% to align with the Secret Service's mission of zero fail protection. If local 3rd parties could be counted on, why not just disband the Secret Service entirely and have local LEs protect Presidents and former Presidents then? I don't think the Secret Service should be disbanded, just the Secret Service shouldn't be viewed as interchangeable with local LEs. I do think for instance that the likes of the NYPD are up to that task, but the NYPD has so many personnel that the staff of the NYPD would be about 25% of the total population of Butler County so it is unreasonable to expect tiny Butler County to have the same level of skills and resources in protecting current and former Presidents as New York City.

I am perfectly OK with increasing reliance on the Secret Service over local LE, but we need to acknowledge that this approach - emphasizing the Secret Service over local partners, would inevitably entail a further expansion of the Secret Service mission, which has already outstripped past funding increases.

We need to acknowledge also, that staffing challenges have been and will continue to be part of the problem: the selection process is necessarily cumbersome, and the job duties are often tedious for the kind of high-functioning, dedicated people the Service seeks to employ. This is a natural limitation on our ability to expand SS coverage as you and others suggest.

 

[Eli9]

I watched the entire meeting, there is also a transcript.

The SS NEVER had a group meeting. They met with the PSP 7/8 and reviewed the sight. PSP mentions coverage for these buildings, a group of red buildings and the water tower. They were told local LE was responsible.

The PSP had a "contract" w/SS for the motorcade ( and led by Pittsburgh PD) and two entry points and placing 2 PSP cars near the entrance. They were paid. A total of 32 PSP.

LE consist of several small agencies. We do not know the terms of their "contact", other than outside perimeter.

PSP did a final walk thru w/SS 7/11 and the site was left unsecured. Volunteers (60) decorated the stage the night before, invented, unsupervised.

SS and PSP had a control room for communication.
This is where everything gets really dicey. None of the agencies could communicate with each other, everything had to go through the control center.

When the text photos of the suspect, with a range finder and bike, PSP was given another number to forward to, 45 min before Trump took the stage. No one knows who the number belong to.

The committee referred and read an act by Congress after 911 to create a National system. They even funded it. (didn't catch the name of the ACT).
Moo
More to come..

The communication system is called First Net

Nationwide Broadband For First Responders & Public Safety at FirstNet

The FirstNet mission is to deploy, operate, maintain, and improve the first high-speed, nationwide wireless broadband network for first responders, public safety, and emergency response teams.

www.firstnet.com

 

[Mica]

[bbm]

where can I find the official tally of people at the rally?

Melanie Brewer, the campaign manager for U.S. Rep. Mike Kelly, R-Butler, said an estimated 20,000 people attended the rally at the farm show grounds Saturday.

Butler County airport authority denied Trump campaign request because of conflicting event

Donald Trump’s campaign reached out to local officials about holding a rally at Pittsburgh-Butler Regional Airport but had to find another venue after learning an event was already scheduled there for July 13, according to the Butler County Airport Authority’s chairman. Instead, Trump held his...

triblive.com

 

[Simply Southern]

I am perfectly OK with increasing reliance on the Secret Service over local LE, but we need to acknowledge that this approach - emphasizing the Secret Service over local partners, would inevitably entail a further expansion of the Secret Service mission, which has already outstripped past funding increases.

We need to acknowledge also, that staffing challenges have been and will continue to be part of the problem: the selection process is necessarily cumbersome, and the job duties are often tedious for the kind of high-functioning, dedicated people the Service seeks to employ. This is a natural limitation on our ability to expand SS coverage as you and others suggest.

Almost 8,000 employees, only 3,600 are actual agents.

They seems to me top heavy on the administrative side. Time to reevaluate these administrative, clerical, other positions, and distribute those funds to actual agents.

Moo....

 

[Waxahachie1]

Completely agree that the public has an atavistic and unquenchable need to find someone tangible to blame.

However, I disagree that this was the sole or even major purpose of the hearing. IMO, seeking answers was truly the goal, as a first step toward comprehending how this happened.

Putting aside for a moment all things Trump—if I were Corey’s family, I would be desperately trying to fathom how my husband/father/fireman went to a rally and ended up with his head blown off.

Answers have to come from somewhere, and answers supposedly come when someone is asked the right questions.

IMO the SS director was evasive even about the basics. Not everything asked of her was top-secret insider information that would reveal means and methods to a future assassin. She was stalling. Maybe she didn’t have all the answers herself, but she had some.

If Cheatle really didn’t have any answers then IMO she did have to step down.

Three investigations are underway but not close to completion, that may entail consequences for the actual decision makers in the planning and/or execution of security services for the event. We already have information suggesting that there are seemingly conflicting versions of the facts to sort out. We cannot reasonably expect the director of the agency to provide detailed answers under oath to politicians who feel the need to posture for their atavistic constituents, and to further undermine confidence in other investigative agencies by initiating their own. The hearing was a political show, intended to force a resignation. It was not a genuine attempt to seek answers.

Yes, the public and especially the victims need answers as to how this happened. But we all need to recognize that sometimes honest and accurate answers take time to get, and find in ourselves the wisdom of patience.