PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

[CCJD]

I have never seen that he had a key. Active 195 Ave A
I know NYC has an Ave A. It has one in Brooklyn also but there is no 195.
I wonder if Active was the name of the Hardware store the key was made in.

From NamUs: There was an associated key that had been duplicated by Active Locksmiths, 195 Avenue A, New York, NY. But this was a locksmiths stamp and the unidentified person is NOT ASSOCIATED with the property at this address.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I decided to contact Ohio authorities about Charles Conner given Magnum’s posts that suggested more advanced tests might lead to a positive match. This is the response I received regarding that point. It’s from an email from one of the case officers.

“So, to explain it as simply as possible, there are different types of DNA that we can get from human remains and can compare to the missing person. For Charles Conner we have 2/3 more advanced DNA samples that were tested and compared and it was determined that it was not a match. No further DNA testing or comparison would change that. I appreciate your request though!”

Any thoughts?

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I decided to contact Ohio authorities about Charles Conner given Magnum’s posts that suggested more advanced tests might lead to a positive match. This is the response I received regarding that point. It’s from an email from one of the case officers.

“So, to explain it as simply as possible, there are different types of DNA that we can get from human remains and can compare to the missing person. For Charles Conner we have 2/3 more advanced DNA samples that were tested and compared and it was determined that it was not a match. No further DNA testing or comparison would change that. I appreciate your request though!”

Any thoughts?

It depends on what they are matching it to. If Mr. Bones still only has the few loci from CODIS in the system, I would not expect a match from Charles Conner’s relatives, even if the remains do belong to him. CODIS is dandy for matching DNA from a perp to a crime scene, but is very poor for missing persons. It would only show a match to first degree relatives (parent, child, sibling), and they don’t have DNA from them.
If they have used more modern methods and there still is no match, I will accept that Charles Conner is not Mr. Bones, and that the demographic match, Forsythe being exiled to Ft. Wayne where the rifle was purchased, and his being seen cleaning blood out of his car halfway between Lima and Bedford, was a coincidence.

 

[Eddie99]

I will double down on my claim that Magnum is dead on.

 

[madamx]

From NamUs: There was an associated key that had been duplicated by Active Locksmiths, 195 Avenue A, New York, NY. But this was a locksmiths stamp and the unidentified person is NOT ASSOCIATED with the property at this address.
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Oh wow so Mr. Bones had ties to New York. If he got a copy of a key made in New York. Oh that is interesting.

 

[madamx]

585UMPA - Unidentified Male

Artistic rendering of the victim; Victim's jeans, backpack, camping mess kit, and rifle case
585UMPA

 

[madamx]

I just found this article. But not sure since the missing date was so close to the date they found the guy.

I also don’t know if he has been mentioned before. If so sorry.

Diana Nelson Jones' Walkabout: Family still wonders about man missing since 1958

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

It depends on what they are matching it to. If Mr. Bones still only has the few loci from CODIS in the system, I would not expect a match from Charles Conner’s relatives, even if the remains do belong to him. CODIS is dandy for matching DNA from a perp to a crime scene, but is very poor for missing persons. It would only show a match to first degree relatives (parent, child, sibling), and they don’t have DNA from them.
If they have used more modern methods and there still is no match, I will accept that Charles Conner is not Mr. Bones, and that the demographic match, Forsythe being exiled to Ft. Wayne where the rifle was purchased, and his being seen cleaning blood out of his car halfway between Lima and Bedford, was a coincidence.

Unfortunately, Magnum, it appears you are right about the authorities being steadfastly against further testing. The case officer clearly stated their belief that further testing would NOT make a difference here. Whether that belief is mistaken is beyond anything I am qualified to say. I can only take it at face value. I myself am a bit skeptical that Conner is Mr. Bones for reasons I listed in an earlier post, but I also think the supporting evidence is compelling.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I just found this article. But not sure since the missing date was so close to the date they found the guy.

I also don’t know if he has been mentioned before. If so sorry.

Diana Nelson Jones' Walkabout: Family still wonders about man missing since 1958

Sadly, I’m highly skeptical this is Mr. Bones. The article you linked said this man disappeared 3 days before Mr. Bones was found. It typically takes months, sometimes longer, for a corpse to be reduced to a skeleton.

 

[Richard]

I hadn’t thought about consulting sporting goods catalogs. That’s an excellent idea. I’m really hoping this was an unusual case that wasn’t made in large numbers. If it was only sold in specific regions of the US or other countries, we could get a better idea of where Mr. Bones came from. I’ll definitely have to look into this more.

I think that you will find that it was a rather common and inexpensive item. The ones I have seen in catalogs dated 1957, 1960, and 1965 sold for $3.50. They all had model numbers and came in standard sizes. I did not see any that were marked "straight shooter", however.

Mr. Bones probably got the case at the same time he bought the rifle.

A case like that was something used to transport the rifle, but it wasn't something made with a motorcycle in mind. If he had wanted something to attach the rifle to a motorcycle, he would have purchased a leather rifle scabbard of the type seen in Western movies on horses alongside the saddle.

This is another reason that I feel it was more likely that he was traveling by automobile, and just liked wearing the biker type clothes.

He certainly is a conundrum. Dress like a leatherman biker, Packing a high power rifle (with case) and carrying several boxes of ammo (no ammo belt), carrying a small one person unused mess kit and a canteen large enough for a small family, - and of course the books? What a strange collection of items.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Unfortunately, Magnum, it appears you are right about the authorities being steadfastly against further testing. The case officer clearly stated their belief that further testing would NOT make a difference here. Whether that belief is mistaken is beyond anything I am qualified to say. I can only take it at face value. I myself am a bit skeptical that Conner is Mr. Bones for reasons I listed in an earlier post, but I also think the supporting evidence is compelling.

Well TrustedTracker, I looked at hundreds of missing person cases, starting in Pennsylvania and then in the surrounding states of New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland and Ohio. I even looked at one from Indiana. In each and every case except for Charles Conner, I found some reason that it could not be Mr. Bones. I found the Charles Conner Case when I was about to give up. I thought it unlikely that someone would take a body that far, but when I found that the guy convicted (of manslaughter in the Conner case) was seen washing blood out of his car on the main route back from Bedford, I said “hmmmm”. The moment when I first saw the photo of Conner and compared it to the sketch of Mr. B was jaw dropping. I would say that I am not entirely convinced either, but I am as convinced as I will ever be without the proper DNA tests being run. Mr. Bones would be a good case for using newer methods, as no exhumation is necessary. And if he is NOT Charles Conner, at least a match could be sought in the GEDmatch database, as is being done with Somerton Man.
Law enforcement resists this very strongly. I think they just don’t want to be bothered.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Well TrustedTracker, I looked at hundreds of missing person cases, starting in Pennsylvania and then in the surrounding states of New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland and Ohio. I even looked at one from Indiana. In each and every case except for Charles Conner, I found some reason that it could not be Mr. Bones. I found the Charles Conner Case when I was about to give up. I thought it unlikely that someone would take a body that far, but when I found that the guy convicted (of manslaughter in the Conner case) was seen washing blood out of his car on the main route back from Bedford, I said “hmmmm”. The moment when I first saw the photo of Conner and compared it to the sketch of Mr. B was jaw dropping. I would say that I am not entirely convinced either, but I am as convinced as I will ever be without the proper DNA tests being run. Mr. Bones would be a good case for using newer methods, as no exhumation is necessary. And if he is NOT Charles Conner, at least a match could be sought in the GEDmatch database, as is being done with Somerton Man.
Law enforcement resists this very strongly. I think they just don’t want to be bothered.

Just for the record, and I don’t think you implied this in any way, but I’d still like to say it regardless, in no way am I attempting to disparage you with what I’ve been saying, nor am I attempting to imply I know more than you about this subject or any subject in general. I’ve seen your forum posts. You clearly care a great deal about this case, and you’ve probably gotten the closest to solving it out of anybody here. I really want to believe Conner is Mr. Bones. If you are correct, and better testing methods could give us a conclusive answer on this matter, than I can only imagine your frustration at having your efforts dismissed by LE.

Here’s my take on things, and for what it’s worth my take means very little in the grand scheme of things. The officer involved in Conner’s case has told me that they do not think any new testing method will yield different results. In order to believe Conner is Mr. Bones, we must accept an intricate story involving a man willing to transport a body over 300 miles, and in addition to this, obtain a wide assortment of items meant to help stage the scene to look like an accident or suicide. We must also accept that a man willing to take such extreme measures to conceal both Conner’s body and his identity also succeeded in not leaving a trace of his own presence behind (at least none that could be linked directly to him), yet this same man made the rather elementary mistake of going back to the crime scene when he should have known police would likely already be there.

Do I say all of this to suggest you’re wrong, or that another solution is the key to this mystery? Not at all. In fact, your solution is from what I’ve seen among, if not the most plausible one I’ve seen posted here. I suppose what I am saying is that until we’re able to get another test done, I’m going to consider Conner as a likely candidate, but I’ll continue to also keep my mind open to other possibilities as well. The problem with cases like these is that almost every possible solution has to clash with seemingly irreconcilable details....

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Just for the record, and I don’t think you implied this in any way, but I’d still like to say it regardless, in no way am I attempting to disparage you with what I’ve been saying, nor am I attempting to imply I know more than you about this subject or any subject in general. I’ve seen your forum posts. You clearly care a great deal about this case, and you’ve probably gotten the closest to solving it out of anybody here. I really want to believe Conner is Mr. Bones. If you are correct, and better testing methods could give us a conclusive answer on this matter, than I can only imagine your frustration at having your efforts dismissed by LE.

Here’s my take on things, and for what it’s worth my take means very little in the grand scheme of things. The officer involved in Conner’s case has told me that they do not think any new testing method will yield different results. In order to believe Conner is Mr. Bones, we must accept an intricate story involving a man willing to transport a body over 300 miles, and in addition to this, obtain a wide assortment of items meant to help stage the scene to look like an accident or suicide. We must also accept that a man willing to take such extreme measures to conceal both Conner’s body and his identity also succeeded in not leaving a trace of his own presence behind (at least none that could be linked directly to him), yet this same man made the rather elementary mistake of going back to the crime scene when he should have known police would likely already be there.

Do I say all of this to suggest you’re wrong, or that another solution is the key to this mystery? Not at all. In fact, your solution is from what I’ve seen among, if not the most plausible one I’ve seen posted here. I suppose what I am saying is that until we’re able to get another test done, I’m going to consider Conner as a likely candidate, but I’ll continue to also keep my mind open to other possibilities as well. The problem with cases like these is that almost every possible solution has to clash with seemingly irreconcilable details....

Well he certainly did return after disposing of a body, whether that was Mr. B. or not. I believe that he was quite used to getting away with things in Lima.
The Mr. Bones scene is so obviously set up that it insults the intelligence. Boxes of ammo, enough to shoot every deer in several counties, but not a morsel of food. Unused cooking kit. Not dressed for camping, but for riding a motorcycle.
Is Mr. Bones Charles Conner? I was never as sure of that as the newspaper article would suggest. I do know a few things that I can’t say that support that possibility. However, I began working on the case nearly ten years ago, and ran up against the limits of the DNA analysis of the time, and the unwillingness of Law Enforcement to proceed. Now, the technology has caught up. Just this year, a complete DNA sequence was obtained from the Boy In The Box, a UID of a similar vintage. It is only a matter of time now until his identity is known. If and only if those in charge of the remains of Mr. B. are willing to have modern testing done, we could know who he is. It is a whole different ballgame now.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Well he certainly did return after disposing of a body, whether that was Mr. B. or not. I believe that he was quite used to getting away with things in Lima.
The Mr. Bones scene is so obviously set up that it insults the intelligence. Boxes of ammo, enough to shoot every deer in several counties, but not a morsel of food. Unused cooking kit. Not dressed for camping, but for riding a motorcycle.
Is Mr. Bones Charles Conner? I was never as sure of that as the newspaper article would suggest. I do know a few things that I can’t say that support that possibility. However, I began working on the case nearly ten years ago, and ran up against the limits of the DNA analysis of the time, and the unwillingness of Law Enforcement to proceed. Now, the technology has caught up. Just this year, a complete DNA sequence was obtained from the Boy In The Box, a UID of a similar vintage. It is only a matter of time now until his identity is known. If and only if those in charge of the remains of Mr. B. are willing to have modern testing done, we could know who he is. It is a whole different ballgame now.

It just seems like the only way we’re going to get this testing done is if either enough people make a fuss about it or those currently in charge are succeeded by individuals who are more open to the idea. I want to qualify that previous statement by clarifying to everyone here that I do NOT encourage any harassment of LE, nor do I suggest dozens of people bombard them with phone calls or emails about this case. Please DO NOT do that. Disclaimer aside, I’ve only committed a fraction of the time to this case as you have, but I’m still dying to see a resolution to it. Could it be the result of a staged disposal of a murder victim, or some wannabe outdoorsman who was way over his head and failed to understand the basic rules of firearm safety? Only time will tell...

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I think that you will find that it was a rather common and inexpensive item. The ones I have seen in catalogs dated 1957, 1960, and 1965 sold for $3.50. They all had model numbers and came in standard sizes. I did not see any that were marked "straight shooter", however.

Mr. Bones probably got the case at the same time he bought the rifle.

A case like that was something used to transport the rifle, but it wasn't something made with a motorcycle in mind. If he had wanted something to attach the rifle to a motorcycle, he would have purchased a leather rifle scabbard of the type seen in Western movies on horses alongside the saddle.

This is another reason that I feel it was more likely that he was traveling by automobile, and just liked wearing the biker type clothes.

He certainly is a conundrum. Dress like a leatherman biker, Packing a high power rifle (with case) and carrying several boxes of ammo (no ammo belt), carrying a small one person unused mess kit and a canteen large enough for a small family, - and of course the books? What a strange collection of items.

That’s disappointing to hear Richard. Here I was thinking I’d found a possible lead. I found an add for them in a 1960s Shooters Bible catalog as well. Ugh.

 

[Eddie99]

Replying to the banter between Magnum & Trusted.

Let's break this down.

You have a body of an pretty big dude, that had a gun shot wound to the head.
You have a big dude, that people witnessed being shot in the head.

You have a career criminal with links to the city where the rifle was determined to be from.

Sure 300 miles is a fair distance. However:
A. He was seen at a location half way to Bedford. As the crow flies, it's dead center. So only another 1.5 - 2 hour drive from that point. Different jurisdiction. Communication was poor by today's standard. If anyone even found the body, they probably wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Which they didn't.

Not to mention we don't know what other connections this guy may have had to that area. He very well could have been going there anyway.

This probably wasn't the first body this guy dumped. I'm quite sure the people he associated with probably shared "best practices" so to speak.

**I was under the impression they compared the bone dna to the parents. As I read the list page or two, I'm getting the impression that didn't happen.**

But even when I was under the impression the dna didn't match (which again I'm questioning now) I'm still sure Magnum is dead on. And there must be something throwing this off. Maybe the woman he thought was his mother wasn't. Or maybe they put the wrong body in her grave. Or maybe if they compared to a living relative, there is a misunderstanding as to that person's biological lineage (perhaps that persons biological parents weren't who they thought).

This *advertiser censored* happened back then.

I would bet money on Magnums theory.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Replying to the banter between Magnum & Trusted.

Let's break this down.

You have a body of an pretty big dude, that had a gun shot wound to the head.
You have a big dude, that people witnessed being shot in the head.

You have a career criminal with links to the city where the rifle was determined to be from.

Sure 300 miles is a fair distance. However:
A. He was seen at a location half way to Bedford. As the crow flies, it's dead center. So only another 1.5 - 2 hour drive from that point. Different jurisdiction. Communication was poor by today's standard. If anyone even found the body, they probably wouldn't make a big deal out of it. Which they didn't.

Not to mention we don't know what other connections this guy may have had to that area. He very well could have been going there anyway.

This probably wasn't the first body this guy dumped. I'm quite sure the people he associated with probably shared "best practices" so to speak.

**I was under the impression they compared the bone dna to the parents. As I read the list page or two, I'm getting the impression that didn't happen.**

But even when I was under the impression the dna didn't match (which again I'm questioning now) I'm still sure Magnum is dead on. And there must be something throwing this off. Maybe the woman he thought was his mother wasn't. Or maybe they put the wrong body in her grave. Or maybe if they compared to a living relative, there is a misunderstanding as to that person's biological lineage (perhaps that persons biological parents weren't who they thought).

This **** happened back then.

I would bet money on Magnums theory.

This case really makes my brain hurt. Everything you’re saying makes sense, but at this point we’re all beating our heads against a brick wall until we can get those additional tests done. Like I said before, it’s all very frustrating.

If Mr. Bones isn’t Charles Conner, and I do say IF, I suspect his remains belonged to someone who was never reported missing for one reason or another. That would be extremely depressing.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

If Mr. Bones isn’t Charles Conner, and I do say IF, I suspect his remains belonged to someone who was never reported missing for one reason or another. That would be extremely depressing.

I discussed the case with a retired LE who worked on murder cases, and mentioned that I had a problem believing that a perp would take a body over 300 miles. He just laughed and said why not, and that he had worked on one case where a man had killed his wife in New York (I think) and disposed of her body in Florida!
I have been to both Lima and Bedford, and picked up several tidbits (from people who did not know each other) that I can’t divulge that made a stronger case for Charles Conner as Mr. B, though still circumstantial (I almost said no smoking gun but felt that would be inappropriate).
Incidentally, look at a picture of a Ford Courier of the 1950s. It is like the perfect “transport a body” vehicle. It is what we used to call a sedan delivery, basically a station wagon with no windows in back.

I have an idea. If someone wants to start a Go Fund Me or something to raise money to do Familial DNA on Mr. Bones, I promise that I will be the first donor. Someone will have to approach whoever is in charge of the remains in Pennsylvania and get permission. I should not do this, I am probably Persona Non Grata with the Pa. State Police due to irritating them back then. Maybe whoever is doing the Boy In The Box DNA could be approached to do this. They may have a relationship with the Pa. State Police.

 

[Ann99]

All respect to the posters, the research/information and the theories in this thread.

Because well researched theories have (unfortunately and maybe wrongly) been negated by law enforcement or ignored by law enforcement, I'm trying to approach from a different perspective.

Being from rural Pennsylvania, living in rural Ohio, previously having lived in the Chicago area, later in life gaining more awareness of Indiana due to kids in college...

Here are my thoughts on the books, contact lenses, rifle, gun case, and possibly camping gear:

I put more emphasis on the contact lens being from Chicago as a location for Mr Bones birthplace, early life. Chicago or a radius of Chicago, Illinois.
That would include Indiana, Ohio.

I find local customs ways of doing business a possible clue.

Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky all have frequent, big event Gun Shows.
Guns, Knives, Sportsman gear, Survival gear, are bought and traded.
In years long past there were very little or no records kept and cash purchases.
Add to the Gun Shows the local Farm/Barn sales found everywhere in the rural areas of these States where the rifle, case could have been found.
Any of the items could have been purchased by Mr. Bones in any of these States at one of these venues. No records.

So I do not think we can totally rely on the items manufacturer, retail point of sale, to tell us Mr Bones place of birth or his home prior to his trip to Pennsylvania.
Sorry to point this out since there has been so much good research done on these items. I am not discounting this prior research, I could be completely wrong. Just trying to look at it all from a different angle.

The books.
Mr Bones had 3 books that he carried with him that had to be important to him and his journey.
Unless, as has been theorized, the books were planted as a red herring and that is possible.
Two poetry books and one scholarly, heavily scientific, very difficult reading - "Science and the Modern World.
From Goodreads. Here is a synopsis. I can barely understand it.

"Alfred North Whitehead's SCIENCE AND THE MODERN WORLD, originally published in 1925, redefines the concept of modern science.
Presaging by more than half a century most of today's cutting-edge thought on the cultural ramifications of science and technology, Whitehead demands that readers understand and celebrate the contemporary, historical, and cultural context of scientific discovery. Taking readers through the history of modern science, Whitehead shows how cultural history has affected science over the ages in relation to such major intellectual themes as:
romanticism
relativity
quantum theory
religion
movements for social progress."

Please read some of the comments for further insight as to the contents.
VERY Deep thoughts for sure.

Science and the Modern World by Alfred North Whitehead

Finally, could the key could have been a Hotel Room Key. This would fit carrying one key during the daytime/camping adventure.
My theory is he would have been staying at the world famous Bedford Springs Inn.
Omni Bedford Springs Resort - Wikipedia

My personal belief is Mr. Bones was an unusual man, a wealthy, well educated, nature/health enthusiast who was seeking...something.

I have no solid conclusions after putting these thoughts out for consideration.

He could have just been a man out hiking, camping, enjoying the beauty of the area/nature, maybe hunting for Morel Mushrooms.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

I discussed the case with a retired LE who worked on murder cases, and mentioned that I had a problem believing that a perp would take a body over 300 miles. He just laughed and said why not, and that he had worked on one case where a man had killed his wife in New York (I think) and disposed of her body in Florida!
I have been to both Lima and Bedford, and picked up several tidbits (from people who did not know each other) that I can’t divulge that made a stronger case for Charles Conner as Mr. B, though still circumstantial (I almost said no smoking gun but felt that would be inappropriate).
Incidentally, look at a picture of a Ford Courier of the 1950s. It is like the perfect “transport a body” vehicle. It is what we used to call a sedan delivery, basically a station wagon with no windows in back.

I have an idea. If someone wants to start a Go Fund Me or something to raise money to do Familial DNA on Mr. Bones, I promise that I will be the first donor. Someone will have to approach whoever is in charge of the remains in Pennsylvania and get permission. I should not do this, I am probably Persona Non Grata with the Pa. State Police due to irritating them back then. Maybe whoever is doing the Boy In The Box DNA could be approached to do this. They may have a relationship with the Pa. State Police.

That’s a great idea Magnum. Just to be clear though, because my knowledge on DNA testing is virtually nil, when you suggest doing familial DNA on Mr. Bones, are you suggesting the police build a family tree for him to work their way to his identity in much the same way as investigators caught the Golden State Killer?