PA PA - Bedford, 'Mr. Bones' WhtMale 30-35, 585UMPA, 30-06 rifle, gold dental wk, camping equip, Oct'58

[TrustedTracker5097]

All respect to the posters, the research/information and the theories in this thread.

Because well researched theories have (unfortunately and maybe wrongly) been negated by law enforcement or ignored by law enforcement, I'm trying to approach from a different perspective.

Being from rural Pennsylvania, living in rural Ohio, previously having lived in the Chicago area, later in life gaining more awareness of Indiana due to kids in college...

Here are my thoughts on the books, contact lenses, rifle, gun case, and possibly camping gear:

I put more emphasis on the contact lens being from Chicago as a location for Mr Bones birthplace, early life. Chicago or a radius of Chicago, Illinois.
That would include Indiana, Ohio.

I find local customs ways of doing business a possible clue.

Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky all have frequent, big event Gun Shows.
Guns, Knives, Sportsman gear, Survival gear, are bought and traded.
In years long past there were very little or no records kept and cash purchases.
Add to the Gun Shows the local Farm/Barn sales found everywhere in the rural areas of these States where the rifle, case could have been found.
Any of the items could have been purchased by Mr. Bones in any of these States at one of these venues. No records.

So I do not think we can totally rely on the items manufacturer, retail point of sale, to tell us Mr Bones place of birth or his home prior to his trip to Pennsylvania.
Sorry to point this out since there has been so much good research done on these items. I am not discounting this prior research, I could be completely wrong. Just trying to look at it all from a different angle.

The books.
Mr Bones had 3 books that he carried with him that had to be important to him and his journey.
Unless, as has been theorized, the books were planted as a red herring and that is possible.
Two poetry books and one scholarly, heavily scientific, very difficult reading - "Science and the Modern World.
From Goodreads. Here is a synopsis. I can barely understand it.

"Alfred North Whitehead's SCIENCE AND THE MODERN WORLD, originally published in 1925, redefines the concept of modern science.
Presaging by more than half a century most of today's cutting-edge thought on the cultural ramifications of science and technology, Whitehead demands that readers understand and celebrate the contemporary, historical, and cultural context of scientific discovery. Taking readers through the history of modern science, Whitehead shows how cultural history has affected science over the ages in relation to such major intellectual themes as:
romanticism
relativity
quantum theory
religion
movements for social progress."

Please read some of the comments for further insight as to the contents.
VERY Deep thoughts for sure.

Science and the Modern World by Alfred North Whitehead

Finally, could the key could have been a Hotel Room Key. This would fit carrying one key during the daytime/camping adventure.
My theory is he would have been staying at the world famous Bedford Springs Inn.
Omni Bedford Springs Resort - Wikipedia

My personal belief is Mr. Bones was an unusual man, a wealthy, well educated, nature/health enthusiast who was seeking...something.

I have no solid conclusions after putting these thoughts out for consideration.

He could have just been a man out hiking, camping, enjoying the beauty of the area/nature, maybe hunting for Morel Mushrooms.

I have my suspicions Mr. Bones was at that hotel as well. According to Google maps, the resort is only about a 10 minute drive from where the body was found.

 

[Ann99]

I have my suspicions Mr. Bones was at that hotel as well. According to Google maps, the resort is only about a 10 minute drive from where the body was found.

Since it is a World renowned, historic Hotel and Springs, do you think they would have records dating back to 1956, '57 ' 58 ?
Could someone there or at a Bedford historical Society be willing to answer a few questions or do some research?
Somewhere on this thread ( i cant locate it at this moment) a well known name of a possibly missing person was mentioned. I believe, iirc, it was a Taft.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Since it is a World renowned, historic Hotel and Springs, do you think they would have records dating back to 1956, '57 ' 58 ?
Could someone there or at a Bedford historical Society be willing to answer a few questions or do some research?
Somewhere on this thread ( i cant locate it at this moment) a well known name of a possibly missing person was mentioned. I believe, iirc, it was a Taft.

i actually emailed the hotel to see if they still had guest books from that period. Last I checked, they were still looking into it.

 

[Ann99]

i actually emailed the hotel to see if they still had guest books from that period. Last I checked, they were still looking into it.

Excellent!

What about the key - are they checking into the key style used in the late 1950's?

A good friend of mine worked in the auction and hotel liquidation business and she had a fabulous collection of the big, brass old hotel keys from the early 1900's. That tradition /expense was discontinued by hotels at some point. I realize Mr. Bones Key was not of that style.

But maybe Hotel or Historical Society would still have key style info on hand as an incidental ...

Thanks for checking into the Hotel. I have a strong feeling of hope ...

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Excellent!

What about the key - are they checking into the key style used in the late 1950's?

A good friend of mine worked in the auction and hotel liquidation business and she had a fabulous collection of the big, brass old hotel keys from the early 1900's. That tradition /expense was discontinued by hotels at some point. I realize Mr. Bones Key was not of that style.

But maybe Hotel or Historical Society would still have key style info on hand as an incidental ...

Thanks for checking into the Hotel. I have a strong feeling of hope ...

I did not ask anything about the kinds of keys they use. If I hear back from them again, I’ll be sure to ask then. The one email I received so far was from a sales specialist. They told me they would forward my email to the hotel itself and I should hear back from them shortly.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

He could have just been a man out hiking, camping, enjoying the beauty of the area/nature, maybe hunting for Morel Mushrooms.

Well he had enough ammo to get quite a few!

 

[Magnum P.E.]

That’s a great idea Magnum. Just to be clear though, because my knowledge on DNA testing is virtually nil, when you suggest doing familial DNA on Mr. Bones, are you suggesting the police build a family tree for him to work their way to his identity in much the same way as investigators caught the Golden State Killer?

Yes! I should have said autosomal DNA and Forensic Genealogy. Look on the DNA Doe Project website. That is how this case will be solved. I looked for Charles Conner’s dentals but found none, or that could have done it.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Yes! I should have said autosomal DNA and Forensic Genealogy. Look on the DNA Doe Project website. That is how this case will be solved. I looked for Charles Conner’s dentals but found none, or that could have done it.

It looks like the Boy in the Box case is being handled by an entity that only works with LE, not private citizens. I do wonder though that if the Boy’s identity is determined, or at the very least he’s firmly linked to living relatives, that may generate enough publicity to get a test done on Mr. Bones.

 

[Ann99]

Well he had enough ammo to get quite a few!

Ha! Good one!

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Since it is a World renowned, historic Hotel and Springs, do you think they would have records dating back to 1956, '57 ' 58 ?
Could someone there or at a Bedford historical Society be willing to answer a few questions or do some research?
Somewhere on this thread ( i cant locate it at this moment) a well known name of a possibly missing person was mentioned. I believe, iirc, it was a Taft.

Weldon Kees. Car found on Golden Gate Bridge, and not big enough to be Mr. B.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Excellent!

What about the key - are they checking into the key style used in the late 1950's?

A good friend of mine worked in the auction and hotel liquidation business and she had a fabulous collection of the big, brass old hotel keys from the early 1900's. That tradition /expense was discontinued by hotels at some point. I realize Mr. Bones Key was not of that style.

But maybe Hotel or Historical Society would still have key style info on hand as an incidental ...

Thanks for checking into the Hotel. I have a strong feeling of hope ...

Just got an email back from Bedford Springs hotel. They don’t have any records going back that far. Really disappointing considering it looks like the body was found only ten minutes away. The Historical Society for Bedford County doesn’t have any records either. Looks like another dead end...

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

If I may please say on Porchlight board it says Weldon Kees has been ruled out by the Doenetwork as a match to Mr Bones.I'm not sure how accurate it is or how or why he was ruled out. DNA?

it appears Kees may have been officially ruled out as our man, but I’m not exactly sure what the basis for this was.

Weldon Kees. Car found on Golden Gate Bridge, and not big enough to be Mr. B.

I think Ann was referring to William Howard Taft V. Here’s a mention of him from around the start of this thread.

I hate when a great lead goes south...This one had me going, and I'm still not convinced that I'm not onto something. The same paper I got the original report from printed an article several days later, stating in normal '50s newpaper fashion something like, "due to our excellent reporting, father and son are reported to have been reunited..." I really can't confirm that this young man ever was found.

The major discrepancy is age, but I don't know how bone structure can be affected by diet, work habits, exposure to elements...

In February of '58, 19 year-old William Howard Taft V (not direct descendants of the president, but cousins to the family [drafting off the famous name, I guess]) disappeared after flunking several courses at Georgetown University.

He was taking several engineering courses and philosophy courses.

He had graduated 3rd in his class at Fork Union (VA) Military Academy.

Tall and slender, he was considered athletic.

He wore glasses.

He had been sent money by his father to return home to Pleasantville, PA.
Pleasantville is 15 miles from Bedford.

I am trying to confirm what finally happened here, but all the info I can find have to deal with the Taft V who is a direct descendant of the president.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

For the record, since it appears that these images aren’t widely available online, and I don’t think they’ve been posted on this thread before, I felt I ought to post them here along with a link to the article they came from. It appears most references to Charles Conner use this photo, but they crop out his body and only show his face. I could be mistaken, but the inclusion of that little placard on his chest makes me think mugshot photos. Then again, it could be for something else. Note the date on the placard; I can’t make out the last digit, but it appears to say “1949” or “1943”. If these are correct dates, that would mean this photo was taken about 8 or 14 years prior to Conner’s murder. This could mean something, or it could mean nothing. Some people change appearances greatly in that timeframe. Others barely change at all. Interestingly, this article also includes a picture of his killer, Ralph Forsythe. I don’t know about you all, but the suit and shades scream old school mob boss to me. Not sure if you came across these during your research Magnum, but I think these are both interesting pieces.

From the headlines: Looking back at news stories - The Lima News

 

[Magnum P.E.]

I am familiar with both photos. Not a mugshot, that was a photo taken forConner’s taxi license. And Ralph certainly did dress the part.

I don’t know how Weldon Kees was ruled out, but he was far too small to be Mr. B. By process of elimination, it was likely dentals. I am told that more IDs are made by dentals than DNA, and in any event that was all we had for Mr. B. The crude CODIS DNA test, with only 7 loci (at that time) instead of the millions that commercial tests consist of now, would not have been enough to rule him out. I did look at him, because the books of poetry seemed like they could fit someone of his background.

So I do hope someone will approach LE (or the local coroner) with the Go Fund Me idea for doing a proper DNA test. Without that (and some degree of luck) we will go around in endless speculation forever.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

Alright people.

I don’t want to get everyone’s hopes up yet, but I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is I may have found someone who’s willing to take Mr. Bones’s case and create a family tree for him.

The bad news is that in order for them to start working on the case, they’ll need a request for assistance from the PSP, and the case officer hasn’t responded to my emails in over two weeks. I can try and contact the coroner’s office, but if doesn’t pan out, we might just have to hope the case officer responds to my emails.

 

[Magnum P.E.]

Alright people.

I don’t want to get everyone’s hopes up yet, but I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is I may have found someone who’s willing to take Mr. Bones case and create a family tree for him.

The bad news is that in order for them to start working on the case, they’ll need a request for assistance from the PSP, and the case officer hasn’t responded to my emails in over two weeks. I can try and contact the coroner’s office, but if doesn’t pan out, we might just have to hope the case officer responds to my emails.

TT, I can’t thank you enough! However, I have been in this place before, been frozen out of a case just when it seemed like something was going to happen. I am trying to stay positive, and if the objection is the cost of doing the new DNA analysis, my offer stands to substantially contribute to that.

 

[TrustedTracker5097]

TT, I can’t thank you enough! However, I have been in this place before, been frozen out of a case just when it seemed like something was going to happen. I am trying to stay positive, and if the objection is the cost of doing the new DNA analysis, my offer stands to substantially contribute to that.

Again, I do NOT want to make any definitive claims, but this individual I contacted has stated they might also be able to help secure funding for the testing. The main thing I’m contemplating right now is whether to contact the coroner right now or wait and see if the case officer gets back to me.

 

[Ann99]

Alright people.

I don’t want to get everyone’s hopes up yet, but I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is I may have found someone who’s willing to take Mr. Bones’s case and create a family tree for him.

The bad news is that in order for them to start working on the case, they’ll need a request for assistance from the PSP, and the case officer hasn’t responded to my emails in over two weeks. I can try and contact the coroner’s office, but if doesn’t pan out, we might just have to hope the case officer responds to my emails.

TT, I can’t thank you enough! However, I have been in this place before, been frozen out of a case just when it seemed like something was going to happen. I am trying to stay positive, and if the objection is the cost of doing the new DNA analysis, my offer stands to substantially contribute to that.

Again, I do NOT want to make any definitive claims, but this individual I contacted has stated they might also be able to help secure funding for the testing. The main thing I’m contemplating right now is whether to contact the coroner right now or wait and see if the case officer gets back to me.

This is great! I have become fascinated with this case of Forsythe killing Conner.

I decided to start at the beginning , with the murder and see what may be found that could assist in linking Mr. Bones to the identity of Conner.

I will post a long reply giving some random info.
Sorry it is long and disjointed. Many articles are very long, and can not be snipped properly due to advertisements.

I will highlight the few important clues re BLOOD.
And two mentions of possible alternate locations for Conner's body.
I'm not disputing the theory that Mr. Bones is Conner. *
Just researching.
I note from these articles evidence that Lima Police got blood samples of Conner from Forsythe kitchen and a glove found in the vehicle used to transport the body (or should have) and maybe if they still exist, those blood samples could be compared to known DNA findings of Mr. Bones. (or has this already been done??)

*Also the mob connections come thru very strong here, so the elaborate body disposal seems more possible to me now.

 

[Ann99]

FORSYTHE v. STATE | 12 Ohio Misc. 99 (1967) | iomisc99196 | Leagle.com

Very long article. Appeal gives more random info/clues about this case.

"August 13, 1957—The following front page article was carried in the Lima News in part: "Both Inspector Grady and Chief Miller seemed optimistic about their chances of proving Forsythe did shoot Connors * * *. `As we figure it, he had 25 hours to hide the body * * * he is familiar with Indiana' * * *."
#
Two Of My Favorite Mouthpieces

Flamboyant defense lawyer Ernie Navarre... Navarre took on the case of Ralph Forsythe, himself a colorful criminal who had just returned to Lima after serving a prison term. It was a town where you could go into the pool halls downtown and bet on baseball, football or horse racing...Forsythe was a big figure in local gambling. The Lima police treated him as though he were the modern reincarnation of Al Capone and so did the local newspaper....During an all-night poker game, Forsythe got into an argument with one of the other players. Forsythe pulled a gun from under the table. He shot the other man dead.
All the other players in the game fled, leaving Forsythe with his victim.
Forsythe reacted with great coolness. He picked up the dead man and dragged him to his car. Forsythe drove the body to the tip of southern Ohio where he buried it.
The body was never found. Forsythe was charged

Navarre arranged for me to interview Forsythe in his cell.
( NOTE to myself or anyone else interested. Can we find this interview?)
The interview made a great Sunday piece...
I never doubted his guilt for an instant.
"Don't miss today's testimony," Navarre told me about two weeks after the trial got under way. "Something interesting's going to happen."
"You saw Ralph Forsythe with a gun in his hand."
"Yes."
"You say you saw him fire the gun."
"Yes sir, I did."
Navarre walked to the evidence table and picked up the gun. He brought it back to the witness stand.
"Is this the gun?"
"Yes, it most certainly is. I'd never forget it."
Navarre smiled.
"Am I now about the same distance from you as Ralph Forsythe was that night?"
"Yes sir."
"And did he point the gun just like this?"
"Yes, he did." Now the witness looked uneasy.
Navarre raised the pistol and pointed it directly toward the witness's face.
"Yes. That's about right."
Navarre pulled the trigger. He fired the pistol directly at the witness's face. The witness gasped in terror.
#

(I didn't realize LE had the gun) ???


Item from another article, I've not provided a link (and snipped only a small part) as names of private citizens are noted so it may be against TOS to post.

"Toward 10 p.m. that humid August evening, while Conner, Forsythe and three other men were sitting around the kitchen table drinking, Forsythe accused Conner of stealing a gun...he shot Conner in the head, according to the three other men, who, understandably, fled...
...no one immediately notified police and the witness who did finally come forward, Larue “Tex” Arrington, did so only after stopping at the nearby Pioneer Bar for a double shot...
Police were skeptical of the drunken Arrington’s story
— the other two men didn’t talk until the following day —
and didn’t get around to checking it out until the morning of Aug. 11, 1957, the day after the incident.
Neither Forsythe nor his wife was to be found, and there was no sign of Conner.

There was blood and a bullet hole in the kitchen wall."
#

So blood evidence, a gun, alternate body locations (probably just theories) and strong evidence of organized crime... either theory, that of MR. Bones being Conner, or Mr Bones not being Conner can be pursued...

Lima Police. Can they assist with providing Conner's DNA?

 

[Ann99]

It depends on what they are matching it to. If Mr. Bones still only has the few loci from CODIS in the system, I would not expect a match from Charles Conner’s relatives, even if the remains do belong to him. CODIS is dandy for matching DNA from a perp to a crime scene, but is very poor for missing persons. It would only show a match to first degree relatives (parent, child, sibling), and they don’t have DNA from them.
If they have used more modern methods and there still is no match, I will accept that Charles Conner is not Mr. Bones, and that the demographic match, Forsythe being exiled to Ft. Wayne where the rifle was purchased, and his being seen cleaning blood out of his car halfway between Lima and Bedford, was a coincidence.

Have I misunderstood, as I sometimes do...?
Is there a lack of DNA directly from Mr Conner?
This was my assumption as I researched the above two posts.

TIA!