PA PA - Betsy Aardsma, 22, murdered in Pattee Library, Penn State, 29 Nov 1969

[littlehorn]

:clap::clap: kline, I love the way your mind works!!


littlehorn:blowkiss:, I admire you so much for what you are doing. You are putting your heart and soul into Betsy's case.


What about getting Betsy's story included in a true crime magazine? (Do they still publish those? lol. I used to read my Mom's all the time when I was young)[/quote]

That's a good idea, Talisman..I don't know if they still publish them either. I was thinking I saw some on eBay about a year ago that were pretty recent but I can't remember for sure.

I'll dig around and see if I can find any that are still in publication and might be able to help with a story.

 

[kline]

Thank you, I appreciate it. This is one of the few forums where Betsy's case has received more than just a passing glance. Most have gotten 3-5 posts and then people have moved on to the next great criminal debauchery.

I don't know if they still publish true crime mags or not. I remember reading Ellery Queen's Mystery Magazine as a kid, and although it's NOT a true crime mag, I must admit I haven't seen it around in some time.

The biggest problem is apathy. Most of the people I have contacted about this have done nothing. Even the Robert Resslers, other criminal profilers, etc., etc., have not even responded to my emails. Most of the newspapers, radio shows, etc., that I have contacted have not done anything, either.

The only real coverage it has received is from the Holland Sentinel, which I appreciate.

It seems like apathy is what has allowed Betsy's killer to remain free as long as he has.

I will keep working on it though as long as I feel there is a chance for justice.

Right now, I have to deal with some snapping turtle eggs I found. I was helping a male turtle cross the road on my way home past the lake. A fisherman told me there was a larger turtle hit right up the road.

As I drove by I noticed that she'd been cut in half by the car that hit her and her eggs were laying out. Some were still in her uterine tube so I cut it open and removed them. I have 8-9 snapping turtle eggs now in a Dunkin Donuts cup which I need to read about and see if I can incubate them, or if I should give them to a naturalist at the local park.

How do I get into this stuff?

God luck with the turtles brother,you have a lot of heart.
By the way I dont feel the killer is a student either.Just a feeling.

 

[littlehorn]

God luck with the turtles brother,you have a lot of heart.
By the way I dont feel the killer is a student either.Just a feeling.

I think perhaps it was a University employee or someone who was affiliated with the college (not Durgy though). This might account for the quick cover-up job PSU did on the whole thing.

Police were calling it unsolvable within 2 years of the killing. Yet some of my sources have quoted individual officers as saying "We know who did it, we just don't have enough evidence." as early as 1970.

 

[Trino]

If the assumption is the killer was not a student but a university employee, this would most likely make him much older now than what we've assumed - perhaps his 70's or even early 80's.

 

[littlehorn]

If the assumption is the killer was not a student but a university employee, this would most likely make him much older now than what we've assumed - perhaps his 70's or even early 80's.

Well, he may have been a younger guy...Someone who could pass as a student. I have some ideas that I really can't talk about just yet...He's not anyone who's still there.

 

[cbcrime]

Maybe something in the local papers would help. Because just maybe the information needed will come from someone who knows the perp and they may still be local.

 

[littlehorn]

Maybe something in the local papers would help. Because just maybe the information needed will come from someone who knows the perp and they may still be local.

I'm working on that, but the local paper up there is sluggish about doing anything. I've talked to the reporter half a dozen times and he keeps saying he wants to do something but never does.

 

[macksol]

I have been reading with great interest this thread. Not only because I can't believe so much time has gone by with no arrest but because I am from PA. I only have one suggestion, and it might not be that good, to get the story out there again. Have you ever considered contacting Mark Furhman? I mean he got into solving cold crimes after the OJ thing and I don't think he cares who's toes he steps on to get info. He blew that who Martha Moxley murder wide open again and got that Skakel guy convicted I believe. Just a thought, you should be proud, you have done great work.

 

[littlehorn]

I have been reading with great interest this thread. Not only because I can't believe so much time has gone by with no arrest but because I am from PA. I only have one suggestion, and it might not be that good, to get the story out there again. Have you ever considered contacting Mark Furhman? I mean he got into solving cold crimes after the OJ thing and I don't think he cares who's toes he steps on to get info. He blew that who Martha Moxley murder wide open again and got that Skakel guy convicted I believe. Just a thought, you should be proud, you have done great work.

Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't think about him. I was reading about him after I read your post. Looks like his radio show got cancelled. I'll try to hunt up an email or contact info for him and see what I can do.

Thanks for the kind words. I wll say, I have come farther in 3 months than I ever thought I would with this thing.

 

[Trino]

I have been reading with great interest this thread. Not only because I can't believe so much time has gone by with no arrest but because I am from PA. I only have one suggestion, and it might not be that good, to get the story out there again. Have you ever considered contacting Mark Furhman? I mean he got into solving cold crimes after the OJ thing and I don't think he cares who's toes he steps on to get info. He blew that who Martha Moxley murder wide open again and got that Skakel guy convicted I believe. Just a thought, you should be proud, you have done great work.

With Martha's murder there was always a suspect, i.e. Skakel. It was just proving he was involved. With Betsy's murder there is, unfortunately, nothing. Or, nothing unless LE have some things they are not sharing with the public.

 

[kline]

Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't think about him. I was reading about him after I read your post. Looks like his radio show got cancelled. I'll try to hunt up an email or contact info for him and see what I can do.

Thanks for the kind words. I wll say, I have come farther in 3 months than I ever thought I would with this thing.

Fuhrman did a good job with the Skakel case,though he left a bad taste in everyone's mouth when he tried to inject himself into the Spokane serial murder case in my part of the woods.
Im very familar with that case The Task Force assigned to the case said thanks but no thanks to his offer to come in and tell them how to run it and through thier own diligence did catch the killer.
Then Fuhrman wrote a book about the case that was pretty much slanderous of the cops who did the work, strongly implying 'Well,if they had let me in it would have been solved sooner'.
Of course its pretty easy to monday morning quarterback an investigation in hindsight after the perp is in custody,but nonetheless.
Having said that...I dont think anything would hurt in this case that might raise awareness of it and Furhman does seem pretty savvy and his quasi celebrity status would certainly raise this cases profile.
If anything might break this open its that one person who knows something or saw something that might get them thinking all these years later that just might be the piece that starts it unraveling.
If you can get him interested (by all means direct him to your site!)I say go for it.
He lives about 150 miles north of here in Sandpoint,maybe we could bribe him with a good deal on a pet turtle,bet he doesnt have one of those!

 

[littlehorn]

With Martha's murder there was always a suspect, i.e. Skakel. It was just proving he was involved. With Betsy's murder there is, unfortunately, nothing. Or, nothing unless LE have some things they are not sharing with the public.

I believe this may be the case. At the very least, police have prints and possible DNA which could be used to convict the right person. That's why I'm trying to find people who I can place at the scene who could be contacted or printed.

The police are past the point where they can get prints and DNA from suspects without a warrant. They've admitted as much to me. But I am not past that point -- I can bring prints and DNA to create probable cause for the police to question someone. So that's another part of what I'm doing.

Like you, I'm very skeptical that anything will come of this...But I have to give it one shot. It's possible there will be some 40th anniversary activity at the scene, too...

 

[littlehorn]

Fuhrman did a good job with the Skakel case,though he left a bad taste in everyone's mouth when he tried to inject himself into the Spokane serial murder case in my part of the woods.
Im very familar with that case The Task Force assigned to the case said thanks but no thanks to his offer to come in and tell them how to run it and through thier own diligence did catch the killer.
Then Fuhrman wrote a book about the case that was pretty much slanderous of the cops who did the work, strongly implying 'Well,if they had let me in it would have been solved sooner'.
Of course its pretty easy to monday morning quarterback an investigation in hindsight after the perp is in custody,but nonetheless.
Having said that...I dont think anything would hurt in this case that might raise awareness of it and Furhman does seem pretty savvy and his quasi celebrity status would certainly raise this cases profile.
If anything might break this open its that one person who knows something or saw something that might get them thinking all these years later that just might be the piece that starts it unraveling.
If you can get him interested (by all means direct him to your site!)I say go for it.
He lives about 150 miles north of here in Sandpoint,maybe we could bribe him with a good deal on a pet turtle,bet he doesnt have one of those!

LOL, I'm not sure he'd want the kind of turtle I was helping. Darn thing tried to take my hand off when I picked it up.

I'll try to get Fuhrman interested. I think the main thing that is needed here is for the police to be reminded that 1. someone cares and 2. someone is watching this case and will push for resolution.

 

[littlehorn]

Can anyone do me a favor and email the Webmaster at www.marthamoxley.com?

He seems to be connected to Fuhrman and some other cold cases but I can't get the non-spam picture to show up so I can enter the code.

I'd appreciate it!

 

[littlehorn]

I was just informed yesterday by the Trooper in charge of the investigation that, despite his desire to take the case to the Vidocq Society, his boss(es) shot down the idea.

So it won't get any further help in the form of the Vidocq Members.

I offered to them to present the case with the information that I have but I don't believe their bylaws will allow non-LE to present a case.

Bummer.

 

[MaryLiz]

I was just informed yesterday by the Trooper in charge of the investigation that, despite his desire to take the case to the Vidocq Society, his boss(es) shot down the idea.

So it won't get any further help in the form of the Vidocq Members.

I offered to them to present the case with the information that I have but I don't believe their bylaws will allow non-LE to present a case.

Bummer.

That is a shame, Derek. I was sort of afraid of that happening because it said on the Vidocq website a case has to be submitted by either LE or family members. It's too bad someone in Betsy's family won't do it. It said in that article in the Holland Sentinel that her family wasn't aware of your website before the article. Now they know about it so maybe it will get them thinking that they want to start investigating it again. If not her siblings, maybe a niece or nephew. You always read about cases where a niece or nephew of a victim will get interested in a case that happened so long ago and they'll start asking questions and investigating it on their own. I wish that would happen.

 

[littlehorn]

That is a shame, Derek. I was sort of afraid of that happening because it said on the Vidocq website a case has to be submitted by either LE or family members. It's too bad someone in Betsy's family won't do it. It said in that article in the Holland Sentinel that her family wasn't aware of your website before the article. Now they know about it so maybe it will get them thinking that they want to start investigating it again. If not her siblings, maybe a niece or nephew. You always read about cases where a niece or nephew of a victim will get interested in a case that happened so long ago and they'll start asking questions and investigating it on their own. I wish that would happen.

The sad thing is, I submitted it on behalf of the Trooper in Charge, and HE wanted to take it to the Vidocq Society, and they accepted it! But his boss WOULD NOT allow him to do it -- they won't let the case file leave the barracks, for one thing.

I spoke to a retired PSP trooper and Vidocq member and he said when he was with PSP, that happened a lot.

So even with the Trooper in charge excited about the idea and willing to do it, and the Society willing to accept the case and PAY a day's wages for two troopers to come out and present it, the powers that be turned down the help.

Oh well. Your tax dollars at work.

I have a lot of respect for Trooper Bernier for WANTING to try to present the case...I just don't understand what the big secret is that the Barracks Commander or whoever couldn't or wouldn't allow it.

At the risk of sounding conspiratorial, I'm wondering if PSU and PSP are in quiet collusion to keep this case to a low boil, and not allow it to come back to the surface again.

 

[littlehorn]

That is a shame, Derek. I was sort of afraid of that happening because it said on the Vidocq website a case has to be submitted by either LE or family members. It's too bad someone in Betsy's family won't do it. It said in that article in the Holland Sentinel that her family wasn't aware of your website before the article. Now they know about it so maybe it will get them thinking that they want to start investigating it again. If not her siblings, maybe a niece or nephew. You always read about cases where a niece or nephew of a victim will get interested in a case that happened so long ago and they'll start asking questions and investigating it on their own. I wish that would happen.

That's the other thing -- even if the family wanted it presented, LE would have to consent to presenting it -- which in this case would not happen as explained.

 

[cbcrime]

Darn I was afraid of that. The Trooper sounds open. But the admin not so. This case has seemed to be held for a long time very close to the vest. After all these years what would it hurt?

I hope a relative would be able to bring it - but it is so much better when LE does because then they would get to see the case file.

Question for you Littlehorn - the avenue you are looking at - do you think this was a one time incident? Or do you think the person that did this committed other crimes? Do you think that this person killed more than Betsy?

 

[MaryLiz]

That's the other thing -- even if the family wanted it presented, LE would have to consent to presenting it -- which in this case would not happen as explained.

I misunderstood then..so LE would have to consent no matter what, even if the family insisted upon having the VS look at the case. I still wish someone in the family would start investigating this again. It may be too painful for the siblings to want to pursue it, I can certainly understand that.