Found Deceased PA - Dakota James, 23, Pittsburgh, 25 Jan 2017 #1
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CARIIS
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Just a ramble!
I am just getting a lot of Joey Labute here.
I think Grindr or whatever apps have lots more to do with these cases.
We have socializing, drinking, youth, and sex apps. I just do not think it is a stretch to add them up.
I am confident we all have had those wake up experiences and think good lord what was I thinking!! The truth is we were not thinking - we were drunk and thinking with other parts of our body.
When females go missing often sex is the core denominator. Its almost as if people think that acknowledging gay people have sex is like a judgment of someone cause they are now missing.
People make mistakes - in these instances its a really bad mistake.
Gay men can victimized also.
As a gay man who was once young (!) sex as a huge part of the lifestyle. We are dealing with two male sex drives.
What I do not understand is how come we never hear anything about Grindr or whatever "clues" they may provide.
How come we never hear we made contact with his contacts on Grindr and ruled everyone out? We hear nothing, while at the same time it seems like they (Grindr) make the most sense IMO.
Homophobia is real.
It amazes we have cameras all over the place and they seem to find jaywalkers, but have a hard time helping with missing people.
On this case (it seemed less so on Joey) it seems like there was a lot of time that had passed before (weeks) they got a lot of the videos.
Would eating establishments need to store weeks of people eating or dancing? A bank I get! I have no idea of storage capability of these things, but if you think about it, in terms of design, would there really be a need for bars ,to store video from two or three weeks ago??
It also struck me as very odd, in one just posted, that LE seemed to be saying to the operators of establishments in the area to pls check their video. That really struck me as an incorrect manner to conduct an investigation.
Every business owner in that whole area does not know he is missing. Sure seemed kinda like pot luck to me. It totally gave me the impression that they did not GO to every business in the direct area, but were relying on people to go check out their videos on their own.
Robbery/ fight done and over . Need to save?
Other than these kinds of cases I can come up with no reason to think that systems are keeping stuff for weeks.
I suppose in a way it would make sense for LE not to "say" we got to cameras at locations 18 19 20 21 too late and it had been covered over. There is however, a pretty good likelihood that human beings do not just go poof.
It's downtown in what sounds like a thriving social setting. In both cases (and Zach too) they have images and then poof.
It just seems like if you have 8 storefronts on both sides of some street, and a camera or two is not working for some reason that the person would have to "show up" again 25 feet, (one direction or the other) again, in front of the adjacent storefront no? Makes no sense at all imo.
These kinds of things make much more sense 30 years ago without all the technology.
The subway station I saw earlier looked modern - leading to the conclusion that is would seem it would have been well covered camera wise. What is the purpose of having them if they all have huge blind spots? It counter-intuitive IMO.
Back to Grindr. My neighbor is 22 and he uses them a lot. Preference over bars. And during Joey, I asked him (kinda blew me away actually) and yes he has gone /and had over people directly (without meeting in a public place first).
I let him know that I think that is flat out stupid! He let me know he is invincible and feels like he can "tell ". He is wildly bright - how stupid is that. Ah, age.
At least in our day we were face to face before deciding what we wanted to do.
I almost have the feeling that they (Grindr apps) refuse to cooperate with LE. Isn't that illegal - it's a potential murder?
As human beings someone is missing - I would kinda think that users of the apps would be fine if they went missing and they used their activity on their site to see if they have a killer on their app. Can't they subpoena them.
Give me a break. Have any of you ever heard LE say we ruled out all contacts?
Do cell phones only ping if they are on?
Reading about this , again, (missing) is frustrating with all this traceable "stuff" all about.
I think we would need to know about the relationship with the female friend. If he was going to meet with someone, and she was a casual co worker, it might have felt "off" for her to ask, or him to share, what his "plans" were after they split up.
On the other hand, if they were close, it would seem that he would have been fine telling her he's hooking up. Anyone know the age of the female friend?
Role - equal or boss - that too IMO, would influence the willingness for each of them to ask him or him to tell her his plans for the rest of the evening. Just role stuff.
It also seems as if his degree of intoxication could be determined by talking to her the next day. I would think that is very important in terms of determining judgement level etc.
It also seems like , in this situation, it is almost as if a car is the only logical way for someone to vanish between cameras. It truly does seem like the only way to explain poof.
I also would think that the app might lend itself more to I will come pick you up at 4th and ..I am in a blue etc etc (as opposed to the old way bar pickup or landline making plans)- if that makes any sense?
The old days (landline) it would seem really peculiar for someone to pick you up in the middle of downtown, as opposed to these apps - apparently, you can hunt down each other within miles of one another, (feels like stalking to me) increasing the likelihood of a car pickup jmo. Very helpful with "poof".
For locals, is that area very camera loaded? If so, it seems as if car is the only answer, no?
I suppose disorientation might come into play.
On a dcale of 1- 10 being high what is this areas general crime notions??
In these, the urinating in the rivers seems to come up a lot. No, I am not talking about unzipping on the main highway! But I tend to think if one is really drunk, and has to really go, going all the way to a river's edge just does not seem drunk logic - behind a tree works fine!
Inhibition decreases in these instances as well. It just makes more sense, IMO, for a sober dude to walk all the way to a rivers edge to go. When drunk ya gotta go! We def have it a lot easier than the ladies!
I am just getting a lot of Joey Labute here.
I think Grindr or whatever apps have lots more to do with these cases.
We have socializing, drinking, youth, and sex apps. I just do not think it is a stretch to add them up.
I am confident we all have had those wake up experiences and think good lord what was I thinking!! The truth is we were not thinking - we were drunk and thinking with other parts of our body.
When females go missing often sex is the core denominator. Its almost as if people think that acknowledging gay people have sex is like a judgment of someone cause they are now missing.
People make mistakes - in these instances its a really bad mistake.
Gay men can victimized also.
As a gay man who was once young (!) sex as a huge part of the lifestyle. We are dealing with two male sex drives.
What I do not understand is how come we never hear anything about Grindr or whatever "clues" they may provide.
How come we never hear we made contact with his contacts on Grindr and ruled everyone out? We hear nothing, while at the same time it seems like they (Grindr) make the most sense IMO.
Homophobia is real.
It amazes we have cameras all over the place and they seem to find jaywalkers, but have a hard time helping with missing people.
On this case (it seemed less so on Joey) it seems like there was a lot of time that had passed before (weeks) they got a lot of the videos.
Would eating establishments need to store weeks of people eating or dancing? A bank I get! I have no idea of storage capability of these things, but if you think about it, in terms of design, would there really be a need for bars ,to store video from two or three weeks ago??
It also struck me as very odd, in one just posted, that LE seemed to be saying to the operators of establishments in the area to pls check their video. That really struck me as an incorrect manner to conduct an investigation.
Every business owner in that whole area does not know he is missing. Sure seemed kinda like pot luck to me. It totally gave me the impression that they did not GO to every business in the direct area, but were relying on people to go check out their videos on their own.
Robbery/ fight done and over . Need to save?
Other than these kinds of cases I can come up with no reason to think that systems are keeping stuff for weeks.
I suppose in a way it would make sense for LE not to "say" we got to cameras at locations 18 19 20 21 too late and it had been covered over. There is however, a pretty good likelihood that human beings do not just go poof.
It's downtown in what sounds like a thriving social setting. In both cases (and Zach too) they have images and then poof.
It just seems like if you have 8 storefronts on both sides of some street, and a camera or two is not working for some reason that the person would have to "show up" again 25 feet, (one direction or the other) again, in front of the adjacent storefront no? Makes no sense at all imo.
These kinds of things make much more sense 30 years ago without all the technology.
The subway station I saw earlier looked modern - leading to the conclusion that is would seem it would have been well covered camera wise. What is the purpose of having them if they all have huge blind spots? It counter-intuitive IMO.
Back to Grindr. My neighbor is 22 and he uses them a lot. Preference over bars. And during Joey, I asked him (kinda blew me away actually) and yes he has gone /and had over people directly (without meeting in a public place first).
I let him know that I think that is flat out stupid! He let me know he is invincible and feels like he can "tell ". He is wildly bright - how stupid is that. Ah, age.
At least in our day we were face to face before deciding what we wanted to do.
I almost have the feeling that they (Grindr apps) refuse to cooperate with LE. Isn't that illegal - it's a potential murder?
As human beings someone is missing - I would kinda think that users of the apps would be fine if they went missing and they used their activity on their site to see if they have a killer on their app. Can't they subpoena them.
Give me a break. Have any of you ever heard LE say we ruled out all contacts?
Do cell phones only ping if they are on?
Reading about this , again, (missing) is frustrating with all this traceable "stuff" all about.
I think we would need to know about the relationship with the female friend. If he was going to meet with someone, and she was a casual co worker, it might have felt "off" for her to ask, or him to share, what his "plans" were after they split up.
On the other hand, if they were close, it would seem that he would have been fine telling her he's hooking up. Anyone know the age of the female friend?
Role - equal or boss - that too IMO, would influence the willingness for each of them to ask him or him to tell her his plans for the rest of the evening. Just role stuff.
It also seems as if his degree of intoxication could be determined by talking to her the next day. I would think that is very important in terms of determining judgement level etc.
It also seems like , in this situation, it is almost as if a car is the only logical way for someone to vanish between cameras. It truly does seem like the only way to explain poof.
I also would think that the app might lend itself more to I will come pick you up at 4th and ..I am in a blue etc etc (as opposed to the old way bar pickup or landline making plans)- if that makes any sense?
The old days (landline) it would seem really peculiar for someone to pick you up in the middle of downtown, as opposed to these apps - apparently, you can hunt down each other within miles of one another, (feels like stalking to me) increasing the likelihood of a car pickup jmo. Very helpful with "poof".
For locals, is that area very camera loaded? If so, it seems as if car is the only answer, no?
I suppose disorientation might come into play.
On a dcale of 1- 10 being high what is this areas general crime notions??
In these, the urinating in the rivers seems to come up a lot. No, I am not talking about unzipping on the main highway! But I tend to think if one is really drunk, and has to really go, going all the way to a river's edge just does not seem drunk logic - behind a tree works fine!
Inhibition decreases in these instances as well. It just makes more sense, IMO, for a sober dude to walk all the way to a rivers edge to go. When drunk ya gotta go! We def have it a lot easier than the ladies!
I have been following this case from the beginning and it is heartbreaking. I am not from Pittsburgh, but was in the city last night for an event. As I was driving through, I paid attention to the streets and the T Station where Dakota had been seen that night. The streets are pretty busy, even late at night. I can't imagine that no one saw anything. It just doesn't seem reasonable to me. As I am looking through the internet today, I came upon this link. It is unreal how many of these points apply to Dakota.
http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_missing.html
http://www.vanceholmes.com/court/trial_missing.html
CARIIS
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Dakota James' family pushes for Grindr app to release history
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixBK57KcVAE
Pitts1- your videos were awesome
TY!
Are you a pro- how did you get them all so fluid it does not seem like you are taking steps if that makes sense?
I am now more scared than I was . FL we drive everywhere!
Many many in the last 8 weeks
THERE ARE CURRENTLY 24 MISSING PERSON REPORTS ACTIVE IN PENNSYLVANIA
http://pennsylvania.missing.report/person/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixBK57KcVAE
Pitts1- your videos were awesome
TY!
Are you a pro- how did you get them all so fluid it does not seem like you are taking steps if that makes sense?
I am now more scared than I was . FL we drive everywhere!
Many many in the last 8 weeks
THERE ARE CURRENTLY 24 MISSING PERSON REPORTS ACTIVE IN PENNSYLVANIA
http://pennsylvania.missing.report/person/
CARIIS
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That was the impression I got also. That they got a least one drink and then got cut off.
CARIIS
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I think that is so creepy and not ok - does anyone know if a person can turn that part off -- that is identical to stalking imo
-- its like Mapqwest !!
CARIIS
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Questions:
They were not there long as the bartender refused to serve them. They left around 10:30 p.m. As he and his co-worker walk toward the Wood Street T Station, James' co-worker uses a cellphone app to get a ride home for herself. James did not stay with her while she waited for the car. She was picked up at 11:49 at the Wood Street Station.
Locals in terms of times (walking) 1030-1149 is 80 minutes in terms of timing does that seem weird?
Is that a dangerous place to be at that time of night waiting for uber alone?
Can see that this might not mean anything but how big a group was it in the beginning?
In terms of the whole sequence -- what are walking times between each stop?
Le does give the notion that they were not served at all however. They state they were in there 180 seconds. 1027 1030 -- how they know that no idea.
Dakotas co-worker walking to the car that picked her up and getting in. James was not present.
This could just be he waited with her and when the car came up he let her go and was out of camera view. But then it comes out that there was some sort of interaction with the Uber driver. These are two totally different accounts - only one could have happened??
He was there at the car or not? That can't be (one way or the other) and out of camera view?
We asked that it be stressed that the money was coming from the family and not police. that just struck me as an odd thing to highlight?
I keep getting youtube results about Dakota's that are female - anyone have a link for his you tube?
an image of Dakotas moccasins was seen walking along 7th Street toward Penn Avenue. does this give locals more an idea of path he was on in relation to all the others? In terms of timing does it rule out some paths?
it takes a body at minimum 14 to 20 days to surface in water that is between 40 and 50 degrees
uesday, Feb. 21
Computer Crimes reports that surveillance video had been successfully collected from 24 locations. that is like a month----------
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12004988-74/james-police-duquesne
They were not there long as the bartender refused to serve them. They left around 10:30 p.m. As he and his co-worker walk toward the Wood Street T Station, James' co-worker uses a cellphone app to get a ride home for herself. James did not stay with her while she waited for the car. She was picked up at 11:49 at the Wood Street Station.
Locals in terms of times (walking) 1030-1149 is 80 minutes in terms of timing does that seem weird?
Is that a dangerous place to be at that time of night waiting for uber alone?
Can see that this might not mean anything but how big a group was it in the beginning?
In terms of the whole sequence -- what are walking times between each stop?
Le does give the notion that they were not served at all however. They state they were in there 180 seconds. 1027 1030 -- how they know that no idea.
Dakotas co-worker walking to the car that picked her up and getting in. James was not present.
This could just be he waited with her and when the car came up he let her go and was out of camera view. But then it comes out that there was some sort of interaction with the Uber driver. These are two totally different accounts - only one could have happened??
He was there at the car or not? That can't be (one way or the other) and out of camera view?
We asked that it be stressed that the money was coming from the family and not police. that just struck me as an odd thing to highlight?
I keep getting youtube results about Dakota's that are female - anyone have a link for his you tube?
an image of Dakotas moccasins was seen walking along 7th Street toward Penn Avenue. does this give locals more an idea of path he was on in relation to all the others? In terms of timing does it rule out some paths?
it takes a body at minimum 14 to 20 days to surface in water that is between 40 and 50 degrees
uesday, Feb. 21
Computer Crimes reports that surveillance video had been successfully collected from 24 locations. that is like a month----------
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12004988-74/james-police-duquesne
CARIIS
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That is exactly what just hit me !!
CARIIS
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You mentioned having been to some of the bars .. Were they small, loud, dance,cruise, young, mixed etc etc - just trying to get a feel of the clubbing!
Was the first bar they went to as a group considered a gay bar ??
CARIIS
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So glad to hear that others found that alley just scary I got chills. Maybe confused? Felt scared of something and that was the only way to go away from whatever it might have been? That location seems like a place someone be a that time of night if they did not feel they had a choice.
CARIIS
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Obviously, LE knows at least one vehicle appears in-frame in the Katz Plaza video. It appears to be an older model Caddy or other large model vehicle...
I wonder if LE obtained recordings from cameras on Sixth Street and the bridge to determine if that vehicle turned up Sixth Street toward Fort Duquesne Blvd. / Roberto Clemente Bridge? Was it slow-moving, keeping pace with DJ or was it simply a vehicle passing through?
First time I saw pic in color - where anyone got green is as bewildering as much else going on in this story.
CARIIS
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After slowly catching up (!) I thought the detailed presser was very strange until I found out about moms fb with 11 points.
I think the presser was political dancing and half of the stuff in it can't be proved. Vague stuff. moo
The more I go , I do think a lot of time had passed - the old saying the first 48 hours. I just have to think the gaps were covered over recordings and or dead cameras. The way LE is stating it sounds like lots of videos but they are way after the event . That has to IMO, influence continuity of findings IMO.
Just got chills, if it was a first time meeting I I would be scared to meet someone in an alley. ugh
To the person who asked whether waiting 80 mins for an Uber is typical in this part of town: No. The average wait time, even at this time of night, is probably 5 minutes. Uber has a huge presence in Pittsburgh. She was also about a 5 min walk from her Uber pickup location when she made the Uber request from outside of Images bar.
I posted a theory on this earlier. I won't re-hash the whole thing, but I believe that LE's statement was very carefully worded. However I do believe she could have, in fact, requested the Uber via her phone at ~10:30, and the Uber could have arrived at 11:49. The way this could be true is if she used Uber's "schedule for later" feature.
An additional point I made in my earlier post was regarding the timing of the co-worker's call to LE. Initial reports stated that she called the very next morning (Thursday). Many of us have stated that, if this timing is correct, it is extremely unusual for 23-year olds to make that type of call based on a co-worker no-showing the next morning after a night out.
Someone made the point, after i posted the above points, that LE's timeline indicated the Welfare Check-in of DJ's apartment happened on Friday morning. This is correct:
Friday, Jan. 27
At 11:48 a.m., two Zone 1 Officers were dispatched to Dakota's North Shore apartment for a welfare check called in by a co-worker.
But in my opinion this doesn't disprove the original reports that the co-worker called on Thursday AM. For one, both statements could be true (calls made both days). Secondly, the statement is worded carefully, so the check-in on Friday could easily be in response to the call on Thursday. If you think about it, either of these scenarios makes more sense than believing that LE got their first call about DJ on Friday morning and immediately went to check his apartment.
If both of these above points are true, in my opinion, this points to a possible theory that (a) at 10:30, they knew they were about to go somewhere/meet someone for an hour, and (b) when she parted via Uber, she knew that DJ may go back to whereever/whomever they had just been, and (c) this immediately freaked her out on Thursday morning. This last part is just speculation, but the two points above (Uber timing and timing of the first call to LE) I feel are still very suspicious.
I posted a theory on this earlier. I won't re-hash the whole thing, but I believe that LE's statement was very carefully worded. However I do believe she could have, in fact, requested the Uber via her phone at ~10:30, and the Uber could have arrived at 11:49. The way this could be true is if she used Uber's "schedule for later" feature.
An additional point I made in my earlier post was regarding the timing of the co-worker's call to LE. Initial reports stated that she called the very next morning (Thursday). Many of us have stated that, if this timing is correct, it is extremely unusual for 23-year olds to make that type of call based on a co-worker no-showing the next morning after a night out.
Someone made the point, after i posted the above points, that LE's timeline indicated the Welfare Check-in of DJ's apartment happened on Friday morning. This is correct:
Friday, Jan. 27
At 11:48 a.m., two Zone 1 Officers were dispatched to Dakota's North Shore apartment for a welfare check called in by a co-worker.
But in my opinion this doesn't disprove the original reports that the co-worker called on Thursday AM. For one, both statements could be true (calls made both days). Secondly, the statement is worded carefully, so the check-in on Friday could easily be in response to the call on Thursday. If you think about it, either of these scenarios makes more sense than believing that LE got their first call about DJ on Friday morning and immediately went to check his apartment.
If both of these above points are true, in my opinion, this points to a possible theory that (a) at 10:30, they knew they were about to go somewhere/meet someone for an hour, and (b) when she parted via Uber, she knew that DJ may go back to whereever/whomever they had just been, and (c) this immediately freaked her out on Thursday morning. This last part is just speculation, but the two points above (Uber timing and timing of the first call to LE) I feel are still very suspicious.
CARIIS
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Neat points.
Just throwing out a dash of speculation:
Also, if one was out with a coworker who got super blasted and then no-showed, the state he was in makes sense that it would be a concern. If she was a lot older (mother role) and or his superior (mother role) might make some sense she called pretty quick.
There is no explanation or ever been anything said by LE how they account for the 80' minutes?
Never been mentioned, they are giving times like 1027 - 1030 but an 80 minute is gap (Nixon was only 17 minutes and look at the ruckus that caused!) not even mentioned, and from what they have stated publically did not seem to be of concern.
There were other posts here regarding a bizarre interaction with the Uber driver. Also, statements that he left her there alone. They could have gotten into an argument, which at some level might explain her quick concern when he did not show up. Guilt?
With their average wait time described as 5 minutes and the nature of the night, (party) a scheduled pick up seems odd as compared to having a babysitter at home or something like that.
Is the location of the Uber pickup, in a part of town , at that time, a woman alone, would make? If not it would seem she anticipated that he would be with her. Back to argument? Immense alcohol consumption (if so ) can lead to them!
In thinking about it , there has been some discussion of the degree of impairment, it would seem that he would have been pretty drunk. They started at 5.THey bar hopped. And got refused service within 180 seconds of entry.
That gives a pretty solid history of being blasted.The notion that there is a thread about this also leads to , in all likelihood, impairment. If you throw in going down a scary alley at that time night, that too, adds credibility. They fact that she remembers little, also endorses IMO, the notion that it had been a party night.
It certainly does appear as if he were texting in the picture. That has to be BS, that LE cant a month out determine who he was texting - that takes me back to it was Grindr text. In other cases, Grindr has seemed pretty resistant. OR they have a person of interest and are keeping quiet.
It could have also been than the hookup happened in that timeframe, something went wrong, and if the altercation with Uber pans out that the trick had to hold off on harming him until the co-worker was out of the scene.
Maybe she did not remember much becase she met the hookup during the 80 minutes, thought he was sketchy, which resulted in her quick call the next AM.
It would be interesting to see the tab mom claims to have seen from the last stop.Might easily have been a drink for her, he refuses to serve him, resulting in their hasty departure. It's not really fun to hang out in a bar when you have been cut off - you leave!!
They have only released a freeze frame. Why not release the whole 5-8 seconds in video form. It would be interesting to see how he was walking.
They did the same thing with the putting the phone back in his pocket. Why not release them both on video. Somewhat might remember a person walking "drunk " more readily. Or did mom not want him seen in that condition. She acknowledged that he drank a lot. How would she know that from 3 hours away? Stumbling in video??
Unfortunately, I believe that LE has released everything that they know. At this point it would make no sense for them to continue to withhold information in fear of tipping off someone they are looking for.
There is a lot of information in this thread and I apologize if this has been covered, but is there a map indicating the last place he is on video at? From what I understand they have him at the end of Scott's and can't tell which direction he went. Does he just fade out of range from the camera?
If he makes a left, did I see correctly that there are cameras on some of those buildings? If so, is he just not seen walking past them or are they broken/not recording? Providing some of these answers would really help us understand the situation better.
I wish they would release the other footage. It could give weight to some of the theories that have been made. Was he stumbling while walking? It would make the idea of him getting to and falling in to the river on his own accord more probable.
There are a lot of people following this case closely, providing the public with the footage could help help them generate new ideas as to what happened that night.
There is a lot of information in this thread and I apologize if this has been covered, but is there a map indicating the last place he is on video at? From what I understand they have him at the end of Scott's and can't tell which direction he went. Does he just fade out of range from the camera?
If he makes a left, did I see correctly that there are cameras on some of those buildings? If so, is he just not seen walking past them or are they broken/not recording? Providing some of these answers would really help us understand the situation better.
I wish they would release the other footage. It could give weight to some of the theories that have been made. Was he stumbling while walking? It would make the idea of him getting to and falling in to the river on his own accord more probable.
There are a lot of people following this case closely, providing the public with the footage could help help them generate new ideas as to what happened that night.
cutieburgh
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A body found yesterday, North side identified as 24 year old David Makara. What is going on lately?
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12028694-74/body-allegheny-authorities
http://triblive.com/local/allegheny/12028694-74/body-allegheny-authorities
The street in front of the Wood Street T station is about as wide open and visible as you can get in the city. Even at midnight, I don't consider this very sketchy. I actually think it's a very obvious place to schedule an Uber pickup in advance if you know you'll be in the general area.
I actually heard the area around Wood Street T stop is not good. There were problems in the past with kids, can't remember if someone was shot or what. But i heard that stop is trouble, even if it is in the open. So as a woman late at night I would not want to stand there alone.
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