PA - Grace Packer, 14, murdered, Abington, 4 July 2016 *Killer died*

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[FONT=&amp]RE: Katherine Allbright

> I am willing to entertain that KA was unaware of any criminal activity by her polyamorous family members Sara Packer and Jacob Patrick Sullivan. To the best of my knowledge, KA is not charged, free to travel at will, and presumed innocent as I write this. I believe that KA's conscious polyamorous lifestyle, as different or distasteful as it may be, neither rules her in (nor rules her out) as a participant or perpetrator of these crimes. I will say that, if KA was an unaware bystander (or unwitting dupe) of SP and/or JS, I have tremendous sympathy for the dreadful situation in which she now finds herself.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]> There are scenarios where "UNAWARE KA" helps to connect the known facts of this case in ways that make sense. [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Here's one I am considering:[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]FRI DEC 30 2016 330PM: "UNAWARE KA" returns to 429B SUMMIT AVE from her parents in NJ to find unresponsive JS post-suicide in the bedroom. "UNAWARE KA" very possibly reads JSNOTE handwritten suicide note during this incident, a note that ONLY mentions Sara Packer as JS reason to live (and to die). "UNAWARE KA" makes "911 CALL 1" of that day, and accompanies JS to Abington Hospital.

(Note that "UNAWARE KA" later returns to 429B SUMMIT AVE to allegedly find unresponsive post-suicide Sara Packer on the bathroom floor. KA transports SP to Abington Hospital in her private vehicle, then makes an inexplicable 911 CALL 2 at 726pm to "advise" 911 operators of the SP suicide incident and hospital transport... which was already over at the time of the 911 CALL 2. This timeline and set of actions is extremely peculiar, and places KA at the center of inexplicable circumstances and bizarre actions).[/FONT]

SPECULATION: At some date/time during the 9 days that JS is a patient at Abington Hospital, KA visits JS. KA relays to JS the details of his post-suicide discovery, and perhaps questions him about his motives. During this communication, KA asks about the JSNOTE handwritten suicide note, which KA should have been aware of from the post-suicide scene and transport.

SPECULATION: The communication by KA to JS about his post-suicide scene is a major factor in JS deciding to begin confessing to his role, and Sara Packer's role, in this obscene crime. Communication to JS during this 9 day stay in Abington Hospital produces a 180 degree emotional change, from "Sara Packer, my reason to live and die" to "Sara Packer is a perpetrator in rape and murder".

What communication could KA (or another visitor) relay to JS that would produce such a monumental emotional change in JS, leading to an "orgy of confession" implicating himself, and Sara Packer, in this heinous murder?

SPECULATION: While visiting JS in Abington Hospital, KA informs JS about handwritten JSNOTE suicide note, perhaps informing/questioning him about the contents of the note.

SPECULATION: Jacob Patrick Sullivan never wrote any handwritten suicide note. Having followed through with a "suicide pact" with Sara Packer, and survived a near-death experience, JS realizes that someone FORGED A HANDWRITTEN SUICIDE NOTE ATTRIBUTED TO HIM.

NOTE: Sara Packer is currently charged with forging a typewritten document attributed to Grace Packer (GraceNote) which has been determined to be a fraud.

SPECULATION: JS is aware that Sara Packer has already forged the GraceNote, and he possibly was an accomplice in that action.

SPECULATION: Confronted with the information that the JSNOTE exists (and knowing he did not write it, and assuming Sara Packer wrote it), JS realizes that Sara Packer FAKED HER SUICIDE ATTEMPT in order to get JS to successfully attempt suicide.

SPECULATION: Someone, perhaps KA, communicated with JS while he was a patient at Abington Hospital. Because of this communication, Jacob Patrick Sullivan realized that Sara Packer attempted to murder him, and began the "orgy of confession" implicating himself and Sara Packer (and, to the best of my knowledge, never mentioning Katherine Allbright).

Just my 2 cents.

David
 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/wmur.r...r-say-abuse-was-routine/8641311?client=safari

In separate interviews with The Associated Press, the now-grown former foster daughters, all of whom lived with Sara Packer several years before Grace's rape and murder, said Sara abused her adopted daughter and clearly favored Grace's biological brother, who was also adopted.

"Her favorite child, and you could see it plain as day, had always been Gracie's brother," said Jade Tenezaca, now 27. "She was more demanding on Gracie to be normal. But Gracie is not normal. Gracie had a learning disability."

Tenezaca recounted an episode that, in hindsight, seems chilling. Sara was watching the TV crime drama "CSI" once and casually mentioned that if she ever killed someone, she'd dismember the body and burn the pieces to ash, Tenezaca said.

"It kind of freaked me out," she said.
 
Oh my word, such horrifying details in those articles!
 
SP better hope she can drag out her time in the county jail, with a long and tedious trial. You see, she's afforded protections there that won't be in place once she gets to the joint (prison): No guard wants an inmate showing up black and blue for court. Suggests an out of control
Inmate population.
Once you're in prison, however, it's a whole different ballgame. Serious criminals doing serious time, peppered in with DUI offenders and first time inmates.
SP will not fare will in prison - her crimes violate the ethical and moral code of criminals, and violate it egregiously.
I don't wish physical harm on anyone. I will not, however, shed any tears over the inevitable ostracizing and eventually arse whooping awaiting the Momster.

They're gonna turn her every which way but loose.


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Program to help others recalls kindness of Abington teen Grace Packer http://www.phillyvoice.com/program-help-others-recalls-kindness-abington-teen-grace-packer/

"Called Gracie's Closet, a semi-annual drive will collect new and gently used clothing and shoes in all sizes for domestic violence victims, foster care children and families experiencing medical emergencies and must temporarily relocate. In addition, the On Gracie's Wing's organization is collecting gift cards from discount department stores (Walmart, Target) to aid those families in need. Donations can be mailed to: On Gracie's Wings, PO Box 240, Abington, PA 19001. If you wish to participate, send an email to OnGraciesWings@gmail.com to schedule a pick a pickup for your donations."
 

"Former foster kids detail abuse growing up in the same household where girl, 14, was killed by her adoptive mother and her boyfriend in violent rape-murder fantasy"
Grace Packer, 14, was allegedly raped and murdered by her adoptive mother Sara Packer and her boyfriend Jacob Sullivan*

Prosecutors say the couple tried to pawn Grace off on a relative, so that they could live in a polyamorous relationship with another woman

But when that plan failed, they plotted to kill Grace *

Three former foster children of Sara Packer's are now speaking out about the abuse they suffered and witnessed growing up in the house

They all said that Sara favored Grace's biological brother, who was also adopted, and verbally abused Grace, who had a learning disability*

One of the foster children was sexually abused by Packer's then-husband David Packer, sending him to jail in 2010


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ids-Abuse-routine-dismembered-teens-home.html
Click to expand...

Another article from Daily Mail.
 
The turning point that could have saved Grace Packer's life http://www.mcall.com/news/local/mc-grace-packer-homicide-turning-point-20170128-story.html

"Because Sara committed no crime, she regained custody of Grace and her younger brother, Williams said. However, county records show she was terminated from her job because she was "indicated" in an abuse case, an administrative term that meant her name would be placed on Childline, a clearinghouse on people involved in abuse cases. That would effectively have barred her from adopting or fostering again and would have made it difficult for her to find a job. But she successfully appealed the designation, Williams said. At the very least, Grace and her sibling should have been declared dependents of the state even if they remained in Packer's home, Ashcroft said. That would have triggered regular visits and monitoring by caseworkers. It's not clear if that happened, since state Department of Human Services records are not public. It's also unclear how long the Packer children were out of the home, and whether Sara's successful appeal of her indicated status helped her get them back. Her knowledge of the system could have helped her win that appeal."
 
http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-sara-packer-jacob-sullivan-landlord-20170127-story.html

Packer and Sullivan's landlord: Tenants' odd behavior troubling in light of murder charges

^^^

For a few months in 2014 and 2015, Konell rented the two-floor apartment of his Abington Township, Montgomery County, home to Packer and Sullivan, who are accused of raping, torturing and killing Packer's 14-year-old adopted daughter, Grace, in July.

Konell, who did not know about the homicide charges filed in Bucks County this month against Packer, 42, and Sullivan, 44, until a Morning Call reporter's visit Thursday, said he's now troubled by incidents and idiosyncrasies that seemed, at the time, merely odd.

For example, during an inspection after Packer and Sullivan moved in, Konell found a third-floor bedroom locked from the outside with a hook and eye latch. Inside, he saw a young woman who lived with the family sleeping on a mattress on the floor.
 
The details of this article are increasing the creep factor (and number of transient associates) of Sara Packer and Jacob Sullivan exponentially. David

Packer and Sullivan's landlord: Tenants' odd behavior troubling in light of murder charges http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-sara-packer-jacob-sullivan-landlord-20170127-story.html

...Konell continued to butt heads with the couple, which is why, he said, he found the experience of renting to them a "nightmare." Packer and Sullivan, he said, refused to schedule appointments for him to do maintenance or inspect the apartment, making it difficult for him to gain access... When they moved, Konell had to replace the master bedroom door because huge holes had been drilled into it in an apparent attempt to install a deadbolt, he said. "I don't know what they wanted to lock in or out of that bedroom, but the whole thing was weird," he said.

And while there were only four people listed on the lease, there were sleeping arrangements for at least eight in the four-bedroom apartment, Konell said... Among the people frequently staying at the apartment were a young man and a woman who arrived with a huge duffel bag and stayed for days at a time, he said.

Blair said:
http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-sara-packer-jacob-sullivan-landlord-20170127-story.html

Packer and Sullivan's landlord: Tenants' odd behavior troubling in light of murder charges

^^^

For a few months in 2014 and 2015, Konell rented the two-floor apartment of his Abington Township, Montgomery County, home to Packer and Sullivan, who are accused of raping, torturing and killing Packer's 14-year-old adopted daughter, Grace, in July.

Konell, who did not know about the homicide charges filed in Bucks County this month against Packer, 42, and Sullivan, 44, until a Morning Call reporter's visit Thursday, said he's now troubled by incidents and idiosyncrasies that seemed, at the time, merely odd.

For example, during an inspection after Packer and Sullivan moved in, Konell found a third-floor bedroom locked from the outside with a hook and eye latch. Inside, he saw a young woman who lived with the family sleeping on a mattress on the floor.
Click to expand...
 
david.r.feeney said:
The details of this article are increasing the creep factor (and number of transient associates) of Sara Packer and Jacob Sullivan exponentially. David

Packer and Sullivan's landlord: Tenants' odd behavior troubling in light of murder charges http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-sara-packer-jacob-sullivan-landlord-20170127-story.html

...Konell continued to butt heads with the couple, which is why, he said, he found the experience of renting to them a "nightmare." Packer and Sullivan, he said, refused to schedule appointments for him to do maintenance or inspect the apartment, making it difficult for him to gain access... When they moved, Konell had to replace the master bedroom door because huge holes had been drilled into it in an apparent attempt to install a deadbolt, he said. "I don't know what they wanted to lock in or out of that bedroom, but the whole thing was weird," he said.

And while there were only four people listed on the lease, there were sleeping arrangements for at least eight in the four-bedroom apartment, Konell said... Among the people frequently staying at the apartment were a young man and a woman who arrived with a huge duffel bag and stayed for days at a time, he said.
Click to expand...
I agree, the creep factor grows exponentially with the details released! I have to wonder why a girl sleeping on a mattress on the floor in a room locked from the outside wasn't enough to raise some sort of alarm. I'd like to think that if I saw that I'd at least make enough noise that it'd be checked out but it's easy to want to believe the best in people. Hind sight is 20/20.

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Moxie Vi said:
I agree, the creep factor grows exponentially with the details released! I have to wonder why a girl sleeping on a mattress on the floor in a room locked from the outside wasn't enough to raise some sort of alarm. I'd like to think that if I saw that I'd at least make enough noise that it'd be checked out but it's easy to want to believe the best in people. Hind sight is 20/20.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Agreed. I'm still mulling over this article, but I can definitely say my immediate first impression (beyond "...yikes") was that I wish the landlord/author had been more specific than "young woman". We know the young woman locked in the room wasn't Grace, but "young woman" can describe anyone between 13 and 30 depending on who you ask. And I'm not necessarily okay with anyone of any age being locked in a room overnight, but I'd expect a different response if the person being locked in the room was a pre-teen girl or a 28 year old woman, you know?

ETA: Also, I can't shake the thought that we know that JS & SP were in an open relationship -- and my guess is that KA is the woman who frequently came for days at a time with a big bag of stuff. I'm guessing this other young woman -- I mean, it can't be KA, can it, locked in the room? -- is probably not a romantic partner based on how they were treating her. That makes me think she is a relative or child of JS or SP (and not Grace) -- someone whose movements they were trying to restrict/control, which seems to jive with the abusive way Grace was treated prior to her death.
 
Agreed, but with the following questions. The article states...

"Among the people frequently staying at the apartment were a young man and a woman who arrived with a huge duffel bag and stayed for days at a time, he said."

QUESTION: If KA is the "duffel bag woman" staying for days at a time, who is the "young man" said to be seen to accompany KA? My interpretation of the quote is that "duffel bag young man and woman" were a couple, at least in the sense that they shared one duffel. And I believe that KA has published written accounts in online polyamory forums that KA had never been with any men before starting the relationship with Jacob Sullivan and Sara Packer. If this holds true, then who is that "young man" sharing a duffle with KA for days at a time?

QUESTION: Do we know, or does this article state, the address of this property?

Blair said:
...and my guess is that KA is the woman who frequently came for days at a time with a big bag of stuff.
Click to expand...
 
david.r.feeney said:
Agreed, but with the following questions. The article states...

"Among the people frequently staying at the apartment were a young man and a woman who arrived with a huge duffel bag and stayed for days at a time, he said."

QUESTION: If KA is the "duffel bag woman" staying for days at a time, who is the "young man" said to be seen to accompany KA? My interpretation of the quote is that "duffel bag young man and woman" were a couple, at least in the sense that they shared one duffel. And I believe that KA has published written accounts in online polyamory forums that KA had never been with any men before starting the relationship with Jacob Sullivan and Sara Packer. If this holds true, then who is that "young man" sharing a duffle with KA for days at a time?

QUESTION: Do we know, or does this article state, the address of this property?
Click to expand...

Hmm. That's a good question. I read the article as saying the opposite; that a young woman with a duffel bag often came to visit and, separately, a young man also came to visit. Either way, I don't know think we know who the young man is -- but if the young man & the young woman came together (with their huge bag) as a couple, then I don't think we know who the young woman in the couple is either.
 
Thanks to Mrs. F who spotted the "QUAKERTOWN PA FURRY SEX RING" story early this morning. My speculations are below. David

Quakertown man charged as part of child sex ring in which he wore furry fox costume http://www.mcall.com/news/local/police/mc-bucks-county-child-abuse-animal-arrest-20170129-story.html A Quakertown man accused of dressing up in a fox costume and sexually abusing a young boy has been charged in Bucks County. Kenneth Fenske, 57, is the fifth man charged in connection with a child sexual predator ring in which some of the men dressed up as animals, according to court documents. Fenske is accused of dressing in a furry red fox costume and sexually assaulting the child repeatedly in 2009, those documents say. Fenske was arrested and charged in Bucks County on Friday with five felony counts, including child rape, involuntary deviate sexual intercourse and unlawful contact with a minor. He was held on $750,000 bail. The victim, who was born in 2001, was repeatedly abused by a network involving at least four men, according to a press release from the state attorney general's office. Previously arrested were David Parker, 38, of Stroudsburg, Jeffrey Harvey, 40, of West Wyoming, Luzerne County and Craig Knox, 35, of Henrico, Va. A man identified as Stephen Taylor was arrested in Virginia, according to the press release.

SPECULATION: SARA PACKER/JACOB SULLIVAN HAD WIDER NETWORK OF KNOWN ASSOCIATES/ACCOMPLICES

POINT 1: SARA PACKER/JACOB SULLIVAN LANDLORD WITNESSED SLEEPING ARRANGEMENTS FOR 8; YOUNG MAN AND "WOMAN WITH HUGE DUFFEL BAG" STAYED FOR DAYS "And while there were only four people listed on the lease, there were sleeping arrangements for at least eight in the four-bedroom apartment, Konell said... Among the people frequently staying at the apartment were a young man and a woman who arrived with a huge duffel bag and stayed for days at a time, he said." http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-sara-packer-jacob-sullivan-landlord-20170127-story.html

POINT 2: JEFFREY HARVEY HOME NEAR LOCATION OF GRACE PACKER REMAINS Jeffrey Harvey, 40, lives in West Wyoming, Luzerne County, PA. Grace Packer's dismembered body was discovered near Francis Walter Dam in Luzerne County, PA on Oct. 31, 2016. According to Google Maps, Francis Walter Dam is 30 minute drive from West Wyoming in Luzerne County, PA http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Abington-Teen-Grace-Packer-Missing-407892985.html
 
My 19yr old son tells me the furry people are people that dress up like animals and have sex. I've never met one.

Sent from my LGLS675 using Tapatalk
 
lmadler said:
My 19yr old son tells me the furry people are people that dress up like animals and have sex. I've never met one.

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Click to expand...
Preying via furry culture is what I meant. Your son is old enough to get what is going on but I can certainly see young kids with no adult monitoring of net activity getting lured by furries.

My 12yo stepdaughter is pretty naive and forever needs to feed her extremely imaginative mind. We have to watch her activity pretty closely. Scary!

I wonder how old these victims are.
 
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