PA - infant Leon Katz murdered, twin injured, allegedly by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

It could be possible that the genital injuries were caused by either accidental injury, like being carried awkwardly in a baby carrier, a strap snagging and catching, or self-inflicted ( I have three sons; they cannot control their hands well at that age but if they find something while flailing around they grab onto it, including genitals. I have seen my sons do it, and if they have even a slightly jagged nail (which babies do as they are hard to manicure), they will scratch themselves); the previous diaper was put on hastily and dug in; there are many reasons it was an accidental injury. Maybe he was caught with a nail in a previous diaper change but was overlooked. You get my idea.
The head injury could be a devastating accident. Was the changing area in the hallway? Was there a changing table? Was it on the first floor or higher? Could he have rolled off the changing table while NV was distracted with her phone or panicked about being left alone with a baby? Could he have rolled down the stairs? In any of these cases, it would seem that the initial fall out of a bouncy chair was a cover, yet would we be told if she had later changed that statement?


I guess my point is that there are so many things that could have happened here. The details we know are patchy and lacking detail and context. Yet, there are dozens of explanations for what happened to be non-murderous, but it is a DP case, so there HAS to be something very crucial we don't know, surely?

Please snip if not allowed:
When my daughter was a baby, which was many moons ago, one of the biggest brands of diapers had just released sticky tabs on disposables. I had been using the other biggest brands but saw the new ones on sale.
I changed my daughter's diaper one day, and there was a nasty-looking cut just above one of her hips; it was bleeding and looked painful. I was shocked and called my husband over, we looked at the diaper and the sticky tab on one side was bloody, it had been digging into her for 2 hours since her last change. It was the corner of the crease, where the sticky tab was folded before being used, it had dug into her very sharply. I was mortified to think she had been in this pain because of her diaper. I wrote (way before email) and sent photos to the company, and they sent me lots of coupons.
These days, disposable diapers have a more fabric and stretchy material on sticky tabs or even velcro. But the tabs that hurt my daughter were fairly stiff plastic.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Last thought, I promise.
Could they possibly have been using cloth diapers? With safety pins, certain buckets for separate parts of the diaper?
It could be relevant.

 

[Shamrock1]

Last thought, I promise.
Could they possibly have been using cloth diapers? With safety pins, certain buckets for separate parts of the diaper?
It could be relevant.

Most cloth diaper systems use snaps/buttons/velcro, not safety pins. For the few parents that use the old-fashioned cloths, there are diaper-specific safety pins. It would be uncommon to use any pin and even more uncommon to use a pin not specific for diapers. JMO.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

Most cloth diaper systems use snaps/buttons/velcro, not safety pins. For the few parents that use the old-fashioned cloths, there are diaper-specific safety pins. It would be uncommon to use any pin and even more uncommon to use a pin not specific for diapers. JMO.

Thank you
ETA: Is there still separating the liners, cloth, and outer parts? I'm thinking more about maybe being distracted by dealing with a diaper so did not notice the baby roll off.

 

[acutename]

It could be possible that the genital injuries were caused by either accidental injury, like being carried awkwardly in a baby carrier, a strap snagging and catching, or self-inflicted ( I have three sons; they cannot control their hands well at that age but if they find something while flailing around they grab onto it, including genitals. I have seen my sons do it, and if they have even a slightly jagged nail (which babies do as they are hard to manicure), they will scratch themselves); the previous diaper was put on hastily and dug in; there are many reasons it was an accidental injury. Maybe he was caught with a nail in a previous diaper change but was overlooked. You get my idea.
The head injury could be a devastating accident. Was the changing area in the hallway? Was there a changing table? Was it on the first floor or higher? Could he have rolled off the changing table while NV was distracted with her phone or panicked about being left alone with a baby? Could he have rolled down the stairs? In any of these cases, it would seem that the initial fall out of a bouncy chair was a cover, yet would we be told if she had later changed that statement?


I guess my point is that there are so many things that could have happened here. The details we know are patchy and lacking detail and context. Yet, there are dozens of explanations for what happened to be non-murderous, but it is a DP case, so there HAS to be something very crucial we don't know, surely?

Please snip if not allowed:
When my daughter was a baby, which was many moons ago, one of the biggest brands of diapers had just released sticky tabs on disposables. I had been using the other biggest brands but saw the new ones on sale.
I changed my daughter's diaper one day, and there was a nasty-looking cut just above one of her hips; it was bleeding and looked painful. I was shocked and called my husband over, we looked at the diaper and the sticky tab on one side was bloody, it had been digging into her for 2 hours since her last change. It was the corner of the crease, where the sticky tab was folded before being used, it had dug into her very sharply. I was mortified to think she had been in this pain because of her diaper. I wrote (way before email) and sent photos to the company, and they sent me lots of coupons.
These days, disposable diapers have a more fabric and stretchy material on sticky tabs or even velcro. But the tabs that hurt my daughter were fairly stiff plastic.

I do not know what to think about this case but I did wonder if adhesive from a disposable diaper could do some serious damage to a baby's skin esp. a 6 week old. It was a very hot spring/summer and a number of sites warn that diaper rash, which is usually not a big deal, can go south quickly if it gets infected and turns into bloody weepy sores with a bacterial infection or a fungus...

Diaper Rash: Symptoms, Causes & Treatment​

Cleveland Clinic
https://my.clevelandclinic.org › health › diseases › 110...





In mild cases, the skin may be red and tender. A more severe diaper rash may have painful, open sores. Mild cases clear up within three to four days with home ...

 

[iamshadow21]

I do not know what to think about this case but I did wonder if adhesive from a disposable diaper could do some serious damage to a baby's skin esp. a 6 week old. It was a very hot spring/summer and a number of sites warn that diaper rash, which is usually not a big deal, can go south quickly if it gets infected and turns into bloody weepy sores with a bacterial infection or a fungus...

Diaper Rash: Symptoms, Causes & Treatment​

View attachment 528894
Cleveland Clinic
https://my.clevelandclinic.org › health › diseases › 110...





In mild cases, the skin may be red and tender. A more severe diaper rash may have painful, open sores. Mild cases clear up within three to four days with home ...

I don't see why the adhesive would be anywhere near a child's penis. The adhesive is on the tabs that fasten at the waistband.

MOO

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I don't see why the adhesive would be anywhere near a child's penis. The adhesive is on the tabs that fasten at the waistband.

MOO

I think the OP was giving some information to include as a null hypothesis. I do not think they were saying the adhesive would be the cause.

 

[Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc]

I do not know what to think about this case but I did wonder if adhesive from a disposable diaper could do some serious damage to a baby's skin esp. a 6 week old. It was a very hot spring/summer and a number of sites warn that diaper rash, which is usually not a big deal, can go south quickly if it gets infected and turns into bloody weepy sores with a bacterial infection or a fungus...

Diaper Rash: Symptoms, Causes & Treatment​

View attachment 528894
Cleveland Clinic
https://my.clevelandclinic.org › health › diseases › 110...





In mild cases, the skin may be red and tender. A more severe diaper rash may have painful, open sores. Mild cases clear up within three to four days with home ...

Although diaper rash can be severe and bleed, there is usually some pathology behind it or very lazy diaper changing.

I do think it is possible the baby could have injured himself, just being a baby with grasp reflex. I do also think it is possible he may have been caught by a nail of the last person who changed him (or even, NV herself) and not noticed at the time. The only issue is we do not know the extent of the injury, if it was just a accidental scratch, I am not sure the charges would have been allowed?
This is such a perplexing case right now.

 

[acutename]

I don't see why the adhesive would be anywhere near a child's penis. The adhesive is on the tabs that fasten at the waistband.

MOO

do not disagree- just know that I personally, as an adult, had some EKG tape ripped off me (by a medical professional) and it was excruciating and removed skin, so the possibility of adhesive in the wrong place on a baby's skin sounds possibly destructive IMO.

 

[iamshadow21]

do not disagree- just know that I personally, as an adult, had some EKG tape ripped off me (by a medical professional) and it was excruciating and removed skin, so the possibility of adhesive in the wrong place on a baby's skin sounds possibly destructive IMO.

I think a scratch and a tape injury would look significantly different. A scratch would be sharp and linear, a tape injury would remove a patch of skin.

MOO

 

[Arkay]

genitals. I have seen my sons do it, and if they have even a slightly jagged nail (which babies do as they are hard to manicure), they will scratch themselves); the previous diaper was put on hastily and dug in; there are many reasons it was an accidental injury. Maybe he was caught with a nail in a previous diaper change but was overlooked. You get my idea.

You’re certainly very experienced with four children!

Of course, we are all just trying to figure this out, but IMO the genital injury would have to be more severe than a baby scratching himself or the parents’ nail scratching his penis.

I’m relatively certain that the ER, particularly in a pediatric ER visit, would have seen every variety of scratches, even self-inflicted by babies too young to really control their hand movements.

Yet the doctors here felt abuse had happened, so the injury had to be much more serious than the amount of scratching a six-week old could do to himself.

At six weeks old, as you know, their arms are still fluttering and flailing, and I think even had Ari scratched himself, he wouldn’t have been able to keep his hands in one place long enough, or exert enough strength, to injure himself to the point of an emergency hospital visit.

But of course there is also Leon, suffering a fatal head trauma. Therefore I have my suspicions.

JMO

 

[Curious Me]

It could be possible that the genital injuries were caused by either accidental injury, like being carried awkwardly in a baby carrier, a strap snagging and catching, or self-inflicted ( I have three sons; they cannot control their hands well at that age but if they find something while flailing around they grab onto it, including genitals. I have seen my sons do it, and if they have even a slightly jagged nail (which babies do as they are hard to manicure), they will scratch themselves); the previous diaper was put on hastily and dug in; there are many reasons it was an accidental injury. Maybe he was caught with a nail in a previous diaper change but was overlooked. You get my idea.... snipped to reply

Just want to share in one story of parents wrongly accused of child abuse. Their one child actually had a undiagnosed blood condition, or disorder, they finally discovered medically, but by then the parents had already been accused and damage to their family unit and lives had already been done. So, errors can be made even by doctors, and they may not even think of some of the possibilities we have thought up here.

Thank You for sharing possibilities, @Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc. I appreciate all your thoughts outside the box and your trying to come up with possible, other than abuse, reasons for AK's injuries. AK couldn't reach his genitals to make the genital scratches to himself at six wks. old. I did think, like you said, someone else changing him could've had a ragged nail, but I honestly think the injuries might be worse than a ragged nail. Described as acute.

You thought "maybe being carried awkwardly in a baby carrier, a strap snagging and catching," and that seems a logical possible reason. We need to back up and get some details of that day. I want to know how AK was acting on the outing that day.

Was AK especially fussing and acting uncomfortable on the outing or on their return? If he was raising a ruckus, but even if not, did parents checked his diaper when they got back? When NV was alone at the grocery store, did either parent check his diaper, see his genital area?

Parents testimony will be important -- seems the parents must've got in one diaper change before NV got back from the store.

An accurate timeline is important in AK's injuries because really it's a confirmed fact NV did point out to the parents that their son had injuries. She had left and gone to the store, so...

However, if the parents say they changed AK sometime when they got home and he had no noticeable injuries, then it sure does point the finger at NV to explain how those injuries just appeared.
​

Although diaper rash can be severe and bleed, there is usually some pathology behind it or very lazy diaper changing.

I thought of that reason too. My sons are grown men now, but I do remember one got a shocking diaper rash and I think it had something to do with citrus. I did do the cloth diapers, ugh, yes, and the diaper pins. Sometimes a diaper pin can open, they are not fool proof, but babies are very vocal and you'd know fast if they were in pain.

That's why I'm mystified if AK was being abused and not letting the whole neighborhood know it. Somebody came up with maybe a pillow over his head to muffle cries. She'd have to be an evil monster because I can not imagine doing that to a little baby. That's where she's in big trouble because if jurors, after all the evidence is presented and debated, if they believe she must've been capable of hurting precious little infants then, IMO, she will be toast. This is all MOO. Processing this case is time consuming. ​

 

[iamshadow21]

Thank You for sharing possibilities, @Observant-ADHD-ENFP-BSc. I appreciate all your thoughts outside the box and your trying to come up with possible, other than abuse, reasons for AK's injuries. AK couldn't reach his genitals to make the genital scratches to himself at six wks. old. I did think, like you said, someone else changing him could've had a ragged nail, but I honestly think the injuries might be worse than a ragged nail. Described as acute.

​

RSBM

'Acute' as a medical term just means immediate, recent, rather than 'chronic' which means long term.

MOO

 

[Curious Me]

RSBM

'Acute' as a medical term just means immediate, recent, rather than 'chronic' which means long term. MOO

I think the doctor meant extreme, very serious, not mild.

acute

1. An acute problem or negative feeling is extreme: 2. An acute angle is less…

dictionary.cambridge.org

An acute problem or negative feeling is extreme:
There's an acute shortage of medical staff.
acute pain acute anxiety

Here's another which goes more towards your definition--
Acute and severe are terms used to describe medical conditions:

• Acute: Sudden onset or sharpness of a condition
• while "severe" denotes intensity or extremity.

 

[Rita7]

I think the doctor meant extreme, very serious, not mild.

Acute and severe are terms used to describe medical conditions:

• Acute: Sudden onset or sharpness of a condition
• while "severe" denotes intensity or extremity.

Curious Me, agree with you. Just would like to sum up.
IMHO: Under the term "acute" the doctor refers to serious severe condition that can or cannot be caused by a chronic decease.

 

[Tortoise]

It was LK's injuries that were described as acute in the PCA.

time stamp 4.20

 

[Curious Me]

It was LK's injuries that were described as acute in the PCA.
time stamp 4.20

I believe you, @Tortoise, but my eyes are giving me trouble tonight after a long day and I can't find it. I must be looking right at it and not seeing it.

 

[Tortoise]

An interesting study looking at infant skull fracture risk for low height falls, published in 2018. The brain bleeds sustained by LK will additionally be instructive for doctors, in this case, IMO.

Infant skull fracture risk for low height falls

Infant skull fracture risk for low height falls​

 

[Tortoise]

I believe you, @Tortoise, but my eyes are giving me trouble tonight after a long day and I can't find it. I must be looking right at it and not seeing it.

View attachment 528920

It must be at a different part of the minute, because where I have it paused it says 4.20. It's near the top of the screen.

edited to say it's also seen on the screen at 4.17

 

[Curious Me]

Found it, @Tortoise despite my eyes really bothering me tonight and that print is so small. It was a statement made about LK's injuries not AK's. The paragraph is describing AK's injuries, then it's just the last sentence that switches to LK's. Sorry for my error. Can't correct my post #772 now, but please note the injuries described as acute were for LK.​