PA PA - Judy Smith, 50, Philadelphia, 10 April 1997

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm sbm

A thought occurred to me a while back and I'm sure it's a thought that hasn't occurred to many of us, but what if Judy went there on purpose to end her life?
// snipped //

Cuts were discovered in her bra and cut marks were discovered on her bones; the cuts align: JS was stabbed.

 

[TarainVA]

ChuckMaureen, I'm curious where you read the cuts aligned. Source you can link? I never saw a statement by the medical examiner she was definitely stabbed. My understanding, based on investigator statements, was she was murdered based on being found partially buried. I'd also never read there was blood on clothes which would seem likely from a stabbing. Thanks

 

[Pennywise 78]

bbm sbm


Cuts were discovered in her bra and cut marks were discovered on her bones; the cuts align: JS was stabbed.

Yeah she was..

 

[Pennywise 78]

ChuckMaureen, I'm curious where you read the cuts aligned. Source you can link? I never saw a statement by the medical examiner she was definitely stabbed. My understanding, based on investigator statements, was she was murdered based on being found partially buried. I'd also never read there was blood on clothes which would seem likely from a stabbing. Thanks

In the Unsolved Mysteries episode the detective actually said that..

 

[Pennywise 78]

Smith says he returned to his room from breakfast and suggested to his showering wife that she try it. Judith joked about going as she was, naked and dripping wet.
Smith says he then left the room for the day's hectic schedule, which culminated with his moderating the final session of the day. When he returned to the room, at about 5:30, Judith wasn't there.

How could a clothing description be given if he last saw her (or spoke to her) while she was showering?

I am taking it that her kids lived in Ma. also and had contact with her as well as the friend who is interviewed on the unsolved mysteries link. But the timing of death of the bones is not sitting well with me.

It is verified that the ticket was used from Ma. to Pa. but was it by the "real" Judith Smith?

Something with this whole story isn't adding up for me.

I am wondering if it would be possible to call the PD involved with this and ask some questions.

She actually wore the same clothes that she wore the day before. A female detective remarked out how odd she found that after traveling sleeping and taking a shower she put on the same clothes. Very weird..

 

[Pennywise 78]

A real Mindboggler. There are some hinkey things about the husband (the missed flight, no dirty clothing or cosmetics and not taking a lie detector) but it looks like Judy went to the burial site on her own volition. It would be very difficult for a strong, big, fit man to move a body a 1/4 mile. (I couldn't figure out the distance from the parking area but I assume it to be over 1/4 mile) 135 lbs is very heavy to lift and carry)

The only way I can see the husband doing it if he left with her at least 2 days early, drove to NC, took her on a hike and killed her and then returned to Mass and staged the flight to Pa. Can Her kids verify that they saw her a day or two before they left for Pa? If so, I can't see how he could have done it. Sure, he could have hired a hit man (are reliable hit men that easy to find?) but a hired hit that involved luring the victim to go hiking 500 miles a way seems absurd.

That seems to leave the possibility that she just left their hotel with only her makeup and a few toilettries and makeup and had herself an adventure that lead to a hike in NC with a new "friend" and her death. Very strange,

I tend to be skeptical of eyewitness who come out of the woodwork during all high profile cases but if they were well vetted by skilled officers and they know details that were not otherwise reported, they can be very credible. I am a little bothered by the fact that the husband wouldn't take the Polygraph. Lawyers tend to be leary of them but refusing to take one is suspicious. Otherwise, his behavior is pretty consistant with innocence. Men who disappear their wives tend to put on good shows with crocodile tears and televised pleas but they don't tend to waste a lot of time and money searching for their wives. Is it possible that he genuinly did not know what happened to her but he concealed something significant from LE? (a boyfriend, mental illness, drug abuse etc)

One angle that I don't think has been explored more is the closest house to where her body was found was dubbed my locals as a "haven for lesbians" and supposedly they were..nurses. Judy was a nurse! She could've met one or both of them when she accompanied Jeffrey to the weigh loss clinic in Raleigh. Judy made friends wherever she went.. She keeps in touch with them over the years. Judy kept an address book in her red backpack. She needs time away from Jeff for whatever reason. She confides in her friends and they invite her down to Asheville and stay with them while she figures it out..could be why there was no record of her staying anywhere AND IT PUTS HER IN THE AREA! Otherwise why in the he'll would she go hiking THERE?! It's a seedy rundown area not very well known to outsiders and frequented by druggies and riffraff..but Judy doesn't know that! She simply went hiking in the wrong place.. It's also interesting that when her body was found the house was described as being "now vacant"...

 

[Pennywise 78]

I still think about this case. A real mystery.

I could be just a misidentification. Apparently it was done by dental examination. I wonder how "error prone" they are.

That shopkeeper sure remembered a lot of details about a customer she had six earlier. The details did seem to point to Judy Smith.

Unless she was carrying a lot of cash, she must have had a credit card, but apparently the husband never received a bill. Could she have had a "secret" account?
The NC Sherriff made some sort of a "no comment" when asked if the shopkeeper reported that the woman was traveling with anyone else. I interpreted that to mean that there was a man and he was the object of the investigation.

There were reports in Philadelphia that a woman fitting Judy's description was seen walking aimlessly" around the city the day she disappeared. If, as I suspect, she was "taking a vacation from her marriage", it is strange that she didn't tell her adult children (by her first husband) or any of her friends, coworkers or relatives. Since she would expect them to be very worried, I find this very strange. I wonder if there wasn't a mental illness issue involved.

There are a few articles that can be linked from this thread. I wonder if LE is withholding some critical information that might answer a few questions.

I think she may have had early onset Alzheimer's or dementia.. Supposedly she'd had a physical not long prior to this and was told she was fine.. But even Jeffrey wasn't able to verify this.
I don't think getting a brain scan is a regular part of getting a physical..
She may have also suffered a mild stroke.. Could explain why she appeared"disoriented"...

 

[ChuckMaureen]

bbm

I think she may have had early onset Alzheimer's or dementia.. Supposedly she'd had a physical not long prior to this and was told she was fine.. But even Jeffrey wasn't able to verify this.
I don't think getting a brain scan is a regular part of getting a physical..
She may have also suffered a mild stroke.. Could explain why she appeared"disoriented"...

We could be moving outside of Occam's Razor territory with conjecture of a confluence of medical conditions but at least there appears to be reported (seemingly factual) elements that might qualify certain assumptions to consider disorientation, confusion and fantasy.

Disorientation, confusion and fantasy also could be effects from (accidental?) exposure to particular drugs (i.e., "pharmaceuticals"). Who knows what may have been at the hotel convention.

Also, considering the "confusion" and "disoriented" angles...
(Missing Woman Found Dead 600 Miles Away)

September 7, 1997, a father and son went deer hunting at Pisgah National Forest in North Carolina. Near a picnic area, they stumbled upon a partially buried skeleton wrapped in a blue blanket.

/// snipped ///

A coroner concluded that the remains were that of a white female, in their late forties to mid-fifties. Due to puncture wounds and cuts on her bra, it is believed she was stabbed to death.

/// snipped ///

...authorities requested Judy’s dental records and compared them to the unidentified remains. They were a match.

Judy’s case was now classified as a homicide.

In the nearby town of Asheville, a clerk recalled having a friendly conversation with Judy a few days after she had been reported missing. According to Joanne Stucker, Judy told her she had decided to visit Asheville while her husband, a lawyer, was at a convention in Philadephia.

Unlike most reported sightings of Judy, Stucker did not think the woman was disoriented or unstable in any way.

Several people in Asheville remembered speaking to a woman named Judy from Boston. Including a hotel clerk who believes she stayed at the hotel from April 10 to 12.

What some people might have perceived as "confusion" and/or "disorientation" could have been JS simply having second thoughts about hanging around a hotel convention in Philly; JS perhaps was in a mood for interesting experiences or maybe became disassociated from her life/marriage altogether.

I believe JS left Philly on her own accord (due to medical/mental issues) and ended up in a wrong place at a wrong time. Her death seems to have been the result of a thrill-kill or from an angry dispute, not one of robbery.

Is JS's red backpack truly 'missing', or is LE withholding certain information close to the vest?

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Jeff Smith visited the site where his wife's body was discovered...

The Mount Airy News - Google News Archive Search

Some eighteen months after the discovery of JS's body, LE was still awaiting results of forensic testing.

 

[Pennywise 78]

bbm



We could be moving outside of Occam's Razor territory with conjecture of a confluence of medical conditions but at least there appears to be reported (seemingly factual) elements that might qualify certain assumptions to consider disorientation, confusion and fantasy.

Disorientation, confusion and fantasy also could be effects from (accidental?) exposure to particular drugs (i.e., "pharmaceuticals"). Who knows what may have been at the hotel convention.

Also, considering the "confusion" and "disoriented" angles...
(Missing Woman Found Dead 600 Miles Away)


What some people might have perceived as "confusion" and/or "disorientation" could have been JS simply having second thoughts about hanging around a hotel convention in Philly; JS perhaps was in a mood for interesting experiences or maybe became disassociated from her life/marriage altogether.

I believe JS left Philly on her own accord (due to medical/mental issues) and ended up in a wrong place at a wrong time. Her death seems to have been the result of a thrill-kill or from an angry dispute, not one of robbery.

Is JS's red backpack truly 'missing', or is LE withholding certain information close to the vest?

Yeah I don't think JS was happy at all in her marriage.. It's funny how only her kids and Jeff claimed she was happy. Her friends seemed to have other things to say.. Jeff pretty much pressured her into marrying him, mainly to make his mother happy. Then his mother-in-law pretty much commandeered the whole thing.. Then comes the prenup! Supposedly she was so put off by it that she didn't even read it before she signed it. Now she's living in a house she hates with a guy who needs and asks more and more from her..

 

[Pennywise 78]

Jeff Smith visited the site where his wife's body was discovered...

The Mount Airy News - Google News Archive Search

Some eighteen months after the discovery of JS's body, LE was still awaiting results of forensic testing.

I find this interesting.. How in the hell did he get up there?? He was so overweight that just walking short distances was arduous.. I think he had a glandular issue of some sort and also suffered from high blood pressure which is one of the reasons he refused a lie detector.. I'm 41 years on and walk all the time and I'm not even sure I could make that hike!!

 

[Pennywise 78]

bbm



We could be moving outside of Occam's Razor territory with conjecture of a confluence of medical conditions but at least there appears to be reported (seemingly factual) elements that might qualify certain assumptions to consider disorientation, confusion and fantasy.

Disorientation, confusion and fantasy also could be effects from (accidental?) exposure to particular drugs (i.e., "pharmaceuticals"). Who knows what may have been at the hotel convention.

Also, considering the "confusion" and "disoriented" angles...
(Missing Woman Found Dead 600 Miles Away)


What some people might have perceived as "confusion" and/or "disorientation" could have been JS simply having second thoughts about hanging around a hotel convention in Philly; JS perhaps was in a mood for interesting experiences or maybe became disassociated from her life/marriage altogether.

I believe JS left Philly on her own accord (due to medical/mental issues) and ended up in a wrong place at a wrong time. Her death seems to have been the result of a thrill-kill or from an angry dispute, not one of robbery.

Is JS's red backpack truly 'missing', or is LE withholding certain information close to the vest?

Yeah I've always believed that whoever murdered her didn't exactly intend to do so. She was wrapped in a blanket and buried..that to me screams remorse. A lot of down on their luck ppl live in those woods. Homeless ppl, druggies, and ppl with mental issues. Judy didn't know this. She's a nurse, she probably just saw someone she thought needed help. Could've been someone with extreme PTSD and God only knows what could've happened..

 

[Pennywise 78]

JeannieC,

I have thought about creating a Facebook page for Judy Smith. I just wasn't sure if I need some type of approval or something in order to do so. I am not totally sure if a family has to do it or not. Out of all the missing people I know of in depth their family members have posted a facebook account about their family members disappearance. But I've never seen a friend or a support person create a page. Not to say it hasn't happened I just haven't seen it.

I think I can find out if other people are allowed to other than a family member.

I created a FB group about the case. Titled What Happened to Judy Smith?

 

[Pennywise 78]

Someone robbing her would take cash at least, especially a drifter or drug addict. If someone was with he, she could have left the backpack and keys where she was staying.

I don't understand what you mean about her car. As far as I know, she didn't have a car; any vehicles were in Boston.

There are two questions that are separate and may have different answers:

1. How did Judy Smith get to Ashville?

2. Who killed Judy Smith?

So after months and months of articles and podcasts this is kinda what I think went down. She wasn't happy in her marriage, something happened that was the last straw. She calls someone that she knows, maybe someone she met while at the weigh loss clinic, someone who relocated to the Asheville area. They invite her down while she figures things out. She was seen coming out of the greyhound bus terminal... While in NC she wants to hike like she used to. She picks a spot frequented by druggies, drifters, and homeless people. Judy, not privy to that since she isn't local.. While hiking she sees someone wrapped in a blanket. She may have thought this person was dead or injured. She's a nurse, it's what nurses do. This person could've been whacked out on drugs or had serious mental problems or PTSD. She tries to rouse him, he flips out and stabs her. You aren't going to sleep in those woods without a weapon. In a haste to conceal the crime he buries her and her belongings.

 

[kemo]

The overarching fact in this whole “ mystery within a mystery” is that the husband seems to be totally uninvolved. Judy, accidentally or deliberately, missed her scheduled flight and flew on her own on a later flight. The husband’s whereabouts are well documented beginning the next morning. It was the efforts of the husband and not Law Enforcement that resulted in the identification of the body. It seems like the little jaunt down to NC was something Jody worked out, probably expecting that her husband would be tied up with his obligations for the conference so that he wouldn’t attempt to find out what happened. She may have underestimated him.

I think someone with her means would have rented a car rather than using public transportation. That would be the logical way to see rural NC. If she rented a car and it was found abandoned, it would have been returned to the rental company and the expenses involved would have been charged to her account. Law Enforcement may have been completely unaware of it. The husband may have been unaware of the credit card account or he may have concealed it out of concern that he would be on the hook for the charges.

The local sheriff places a high degree in confidence in the sighting at the Christmas store. If that was her, she was probably traveling with another woman. Perhaps that woman killed her. Or, she may have found her way to that trail on her own and med up with the wrong person on the trail. There are lots of possibilities. At this point we will probably never know.

 

[Pennywise 78]

Agreed! That's what makes this case so difficult is it's all based on theories and eyewitness accounts which usually are pretty inaccurate and unreliable. I don't think Jeff had anything to do with it at all BUT I do think he was somehow responsible for her leaving. Something had to have happened either in Boston or Philadelphia to make her want to leave. I think he felt immense guilt for that. He was probably stressed out and on edge about the conference and maybe said something to Judy to either really possible her off and or hurt her feelings. What I find funny is the only people who claimed she was happy in her marriage was Jeff and Judy's kids. Her friends were pretty much "Meh.. Not so much.."
The reason why I came up with the theory I did was because of the blanket she was found wrapped in. Why would a blanket be at the scene unless someone was already sleeping there. She could've crossed paths with some nut job or someone suffering from PTSD or schizophrenia who killed her, possibly in a fugue state. The possibilities are endless.

 

[Pennywise 78]

I have since set up a faceFace group about it called What happened to Judy Smith. I don't want this case to just die out..

I have looked to see if Judy had a Facebook and I couldn't find anything. I don't think her story is out in the open as much as it should be and I haven't heard any more news or updates. It's like this case is a dead end right now. Feels like no ones doing anything about it. I guess no one just really hasn't found any new information. I can't barely find any articles on her death or any information.

I did find a strange web site with some narration. I don't think it will help the situation but it just striked me as odd- http://www.livedash.com/transcript/...away)/5712/TRUTVP/Monday_July_26_2010/385340/

Another- Judy Smith Case - Sitcoms Online Message Boards - Forums

Sorry if any of these have been posted before.
I have never thought about a preplanned trip but I do consider it now. I just don't feel the husband had anything to do with her murder. I think she either met with foul play or she preplanned to meet someone she thought was harmless but turned out to be her killer. Why else would she have had so many sandwiches? Unless she planned on staying for a long time by herself. Then again, her sandwiches would have spoiled sooner.

Her children seem to be quiet about her death. Maybe they're just in shock.
It's sad that her husband passed away. But now he most likely knows what happened to his wife while the ones who are trying to solve it do not know.

 

[Pennywise 78]

The $30 worth of sandwiches and a toy truck purchase still interests me.. what do you do with food like that?You go on a picnic. Where was her body found?? Near a picnic area.. she probably met some people while in Asheville. Couldve been the person who gave her a ride down to North Carolina in the first place.. Maybe some down on their luck people who had a small child. She befriends them, because that's what Judy does. Maybe one of the people has a dark side and sees Judy as an opportunity.. he sees that car, loaded with goodies and figures she has money. Maybe he figures he'll just rob her, but things got out of hand. Or.. maybe hurting her was his intentions all along because he simply can't help himself.. Why wasn't the cash on her taken? Well what woman keeps cash stashed away like that? Didn't think to look there for it. Plus I'm sure Judy would've made a hell of a lot of noise and put up one hell of a fight so he/they just simply didn't have time to look for it. They're worrying that someone heard and would come around.. After all, her billfold was never found and neither was her car. It probably had out of state plates and figured she wouldn't be missed, at least not for a while..
They've said that the person who did this probably didn't live in the area but had ties to the area. A truck driver with a girlfriend or wife in the area and a kid would certainly fit that criteria..

 

[J. J. in Phila]

We really don't know if she had a car.

 

[Pennywise 78]

We really don't know if she had a car.

Well, none of this we can really be sure of honestly. But two people, unrelated to the other, claimed to have seen the same person behind the wheel of a gray sedan.. That seems pretty credible to me. And I don't know why but I'm akin to believe that the people she met were either in on it or she knew what a monster he is and looked the other way because she's afraid of him. Maybe robbing unsuspecting tourists was their thing.
Plus.. there's no way she could've gotten up that steep incline with arthritis so bad that it was used to identify her remains. Not unless she had help in doing so..
Just my honest opinion.