PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #2

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I wonder if LE would really be untruthful about going to knock on the doors...that kind of thing has such a way of backfiring...
 
cluciano63 said:
I wonder if LE would really be untruthful about going to knock on the doors...that kind of thing has such a way of backfiring...
Click to expand...

Here's where I'm cutting them a little slack. We did not hear the knocking part directly from LE. Someone in the family or press may have made an assumption, mentioned it in conversation and it snowballed.

Like the locked/unlocked door thing that the press got wrong. Or the missing dog thing the press initially got wrong.

I truly believe no one knocked at 4:31. But I could be dead wrong. If LE makes no statement, we can't know.


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Some new developments and lots of great posts over the past 2 days .. thanks guys .. makes for good catching up!

I really think (my hope is) LE has this pretty much solved. Tight Lipped, Not asking for much outside acency help, no pressers and no searches ... I would hate to think they were inadequate in their efforts (although it is a possibility). I think they are awaiting DNA results .. which means this is not gonna end well .. (brings a lump to my throat to even think it) ..

Only two reasons to make Kortne disappear if it was MR & CP ..

1. Obvious body injuries or proof of suffocation. IF that had been the case, I don't think CP would have admitted to sleeping over there .. He could have easily pinned it on the neighbor after the altercation he witnessed between the neighbor and Kortne. Even if he raped her .. he could have claimed it was consentual and he later left, covering for why his DNA was on her. He could have claimed after he left, the neighbor must have went up and killed her.

2. A drug would show up in Kortnes system that would link it directly to them .. like perhaps something they give to saaaay .. horses?

With LE not serving a search warrant on the neighbor as of yet (or that we have heard of) .. It leads me to believe perhaps the neighbors cooperated with LE and their search efforts with the dogs when they had them at Kortnes apt and allowed them to search their apts.
I'll tell ya .. for two guys that obviously don't have attorneys .. (Or if they do have attorneys, they sure are not advising them well) they sure are flapping their gums to the media to get "theirs side of the story out". Hard to tell though with the haphazard reporting if their stories conflict in certain areas or if it is just the usual bad reporting with this case.
 
FYI- the Jaren Lockhart threads have been locked because posters are outing family members of a POI that's been posting. The POI is reportedly reading the threads.

To be fair, the relative of the POI did identify herself as such...and then posters started recounting FB chats with the POI....and it got really iffy really fast.

It's possible those threads won't reopen.


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LE still probably would have obtained warrants to search the other apartments though, wouldn't they? Even if they were given permission? It can make it tricky, without a warrant, if in fact they were to find anything. Anyway, I hope they did search.
 
Meems said:
Some new developments and lots of great posts over the past 2 days .. thanks guys .. makes for good catching up!

I really think (my hope is) LE has this pretty much solved. Tight Lipped, Not asking for much outside acency help, no pressers and no searches ... I would hate to think they were inadequate in their efforts (although it is a possibility). I think they are awaiting DNA results .. which means this is not gonna end well .. (brings a lump to my throat to even think it) ..

Only two reasons to make Kortne disappear if it was MR & CP ..

1. Obvious body injuries or proof of suffocation. IF that had been the case, I don't think CP would have admitted to sleeping over there .. He could have easily pinned it on the neighbor after the altercation he witnessed between the neighbor and Kortne. Even if he raped her .. he could have claimed it was consentual and he later left, covering for why his DNA was on her. He could have claimed after he left, the neighbor must have went up and killed her.

2. A drug would show up in Kortnes system that would link it directly to them .. like perhaps something they give to saaaay .. horses?

With LE not serving a search warrant on the neighbor as of yet (or that we have heard of) .. It leads me to believe perhaps the neighbors cooperated with LE and their search efforts with the dogs when they had them at Kortnes apt and allowed them to search their apts.
I'll tell ya .. for two guys that obviously don't have attorneys .. (Or if they do have attorneys, they sure are not advising them well) they sure are flapping their gums to the media to get "theirs side of the story out". Hard to tell though with the haphazard reporting if their stories conflict in certain areas or if it is just the usual bad reporting with this case.
Click to expand...

If they weren't involved they shouldn't have a 'side' to the story, IMO.

Truth is the same, no matter who tells it or how often.

Truth doesn't change.




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cluciano63 said:
LE still probably would have obtained warrants to search the other apartments though, wouldn't they? Even if they were given permission? It can make it tricky, without a warrant, if in fact they were to find anything. Anyway, I hope they did search.
Click to expand...

Good question .. maybe if they saw something during the first search that looked like it needed a closer looksee they would then get a warrant. I can tell you .. if I was a neighbor .. especially the one she had the confrontation with, and I had nothing to do with her disappearance .. I would throw my doors open and beg them to come in to search my place .. my car .. I'f volunteer my DNA and request to take a poly!
 
Meems said:
2. A drug would show up in Kortnes system that would link it directly to them .. like perhaps something they give to saaaay .. horses?
Click to expand...

This is the most likely scenario I can think of. I've been looking up possible drugs and this one ticks a lot of boxes for me.

http://www.horsejournals.com/“frog-juice”-latest-racehorse-doping

Reports of recreational use compare it to Oxycontin or the like, but state that it's MUCH more potent - easy to take too much.
 
fringles said:
This is the most likely scenario I can think of. I've been looking up possible drugs and this one ticks a lot of boxes for me.

http://www.horsejournals.com/“frog-juice”-latest-racehorse-doping

Reports of recreational use compare it to Oxycontin or the like, but state that it's MUCH more potent - easy to take too much.
Click to expand...

Some discussion of dermorphin

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166122

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/347042-dermorphin-questions
 
JurysOut said:
No euphoria, but there's a market for this? Capillary flushing and anxiety?
I think I'll pass.


Good stuff, PJD




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Click to expand...

Almost every time I check out those forums, I end up reading much longer than I'd intended.

Anyhow, I am not sure why the less-than-stellar reports on those sites. It seems to contradict what I would've expected from a highly selective MOR (mu opioid receptor) agonist. I guess it is because of the effect of dynorphins at the KOR? That kind of makes sense, anyway...

So something that we have to keep in mind when reading about these substances - and I believe it was mentioned or alluded to in one of the posts I linked above - is that we have to keep our minds open to the possibility that there are 2 ways to think about street drugs...1) What did the individual believe s/he was taking? and 2) What was actually in that dose? (Mixtures, dilutions, etc.) To answer that second question, we have to think about sources, etc. JMOO. I think the reason it is especially important re: dermorphin, as alluded to on the drugs site, is that it's very potent. As always, JMOO. I know that we are just tossing this idea of drugs around in a speculation-type-way...guess I wanted to give my semi-educated opinion on it.
 
PlainJaneDoe said:
Almost every time I check out those forums, I end up reading much longer than I'd intended.

Anyhow, I am not sure why the less-than-stellar reports on those sites. It seems to contradict what I would've expected from a highly selective MOR (mu opioid receptor) agonist. I guess it is because of the effect of dynorphins at the KOR? That kind of makes sense, anyway...

So something that we have to keep in mind when reading about these substances - and I believe it was mentioned or alluded to in one of the posts I linked above - is that we have to keep our minds open to the possibility that there are 2 ways to think about street drugs...1) What did the individual believe s/he was taking? and 2) What was actually in that dose? (Mixtures, dilutions, etc.) To answer that second question, we have to think about sources, etc. JMOO. I think the reason it is especially important re: dermorphin, as alluded to on the drugs site, is that it's very potent. As always, JMOO. I know that we are just tossing this idea of drugs around in a speculation-type-way...guess I wanted to give my semi-educated opinion on it.
Click to expand...

I was surprised to read that, too,

As you say - there are two many variables in these anecdotal reports. Not exactly a controlled environment.

And I have no idea what a person walking down the street can buy.


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Thanks PlainJaneDoe - I was wondering similar things, but don't have the science knowledge to expand on it.
 
fringles said:
Thanks PlainJaneDoe - I was wondering similar things, but don't have the science knowledge to expand on it.
Click to expand...

You're welcome! I'm almost always happy to talk science or read more papers.
 
PlainJaneDoe said:
You're welcome! I'm almost always happy to talk science or read more papers.
Click to expand...

Don't tempt me, I'll quiz you all day - and given that we're already talking obscure frog-based opiate related racehorse drugs, who knows where we'd end up!
 
If the search warrants are sealed:

(E) The affidavit shall be sealed for a period of not more than 60 days, unless the time period is extended as provided in paragraph (F) or paragraph (H).

(F) Upon motion of the attorney for the Commonwealth for good cause shown, the justice or judge who issued the search warrant may extend the period of time that the affidavit(s) will remain sealed. If the justice or judge is unavailable, another justice or judge shall be assigned to decide the motion.

(G) Upon motion for good cause shown, the justice or judge may grant an unlimited number of extensions of the time that the affidavit(s) shall remain sealed. Each extension shall be for a period of not more than 30 days.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter2/s211.html
 
Snipped

Comment

This rule establishes procedures for temporarily sealing the affidavit(s) supporting a search warrant. Ordinarily these procedures would be limited to cases in which an ongoing investigation using, for example, electronic surveillance (18 Pa.C.S. § 5701 et seq.) or an undercover agent, would be jeopardized by revealing the information necessary to support probable cause to obtain a search warrant. Therefore, when determining whether good cause exists to seal the affidavit(s), the justice or judge should consider, for example, whether revealing the information in the affidavit(s) would defeat an ongoing investigation or endanger an undercover agent or informant.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/234/chapter2/s211.html

Now that would be priceless. MR's car returned?
 
While we are waiting on some good news.

Palmyra has a population of around 7,300
Doesn't seem to have any major crime - no murders from the chart here (1/2 way down page)
It shows they have 9 LE positions - doesn't seem like many or that perhaps no "detectives" on staff....

or is the County sheriff investigating Cortne's disappearance?

http://www.city-data.com/city/Palmyra-Pennsylvania.html
 
scorekeeper said:
While we are waiting on some good news.

Palmyra has a population of around 7,300
Doesn't seem to have any major crime - no murders from the chart here (1/2 way down page)
It shows they have 9 LE positions - doesn't seem like many or that perhaps no "detectives" on staff....

or is the County sheriff investigating Cortne's disappearance?

http://www.city-data.com/city/Palmyra-Pennsylvania.html
Click to expand...


Direct link to the PD
http://palmyraborough.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=59&Itemid=62

Someone up thread posted a list of cooperating agencies.


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