I think I am most curious as to why the "remains" were found at 10 am on Thursday ... and investigators remained at the scene until Friday late afternoon and all of this before any info was released to the media. It sounds to me like they went thru that patch of woods with a fine toothed comb .. I think there is more to this story.
PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #4
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I for one have not ruled out the possibility that Kortne may have walked away on her own although I feel that it is unlikely.
1. Yes .. she appears to have a "close" relationship with her parents but we are "technically" only reading facebook posts from her mother which indicate this to be the case. Again .. there is "second hand info" (which I can not get into because they are deemed rumors) but there imo was some "parental conflicts" (and rightfully so on the parents part but kids don't always want to hear it) recently before Kortne went missing. There are some personal observations I could add but will not out of sheer respect for her parents. (Both of which I have had conversations with.)
2. Kortne was arrested just a few months prior to her going missing for furnishing alcohol to minors .. which she plead to a lesser charge. IF and I say IF she was possibly facing a second charge the night prior to her going missing she may have thought she would be facing jail time.
3. There are rumors stating that she/her bf owed someone money .. she may feel her life as well as her family is in danger.
4. IF and again I Say IF .. she was using any type of opiate drug .. this would dull her ability to care if her parents were "suffereing" with her being missing regardless of what type of relationship she had with them prior to her being missing.
5. I have personaly spoken to a bartender at a "dive bar" in the Harrisburg area that claims to have seen Kortne and there was a facebook post from another person on a mutual friends of both Kortne and mines page that she claims to have seen Kortne downtown Harrisburg around the midtown arts center .. which is the same "hood" as the dive bar. The bartender and Kortnes friend do not know each other.
6. The lack of public pleas by the parents and from LE are concerning to me if this was a homicide/kidnapping case.
7. "Kids" can not process long term problems like adults can. In her minds eye .. her problems may have far outweighed her solutions.
In my gut and my heart .. I feel that Kortne is a victim of foul play .. but my logical mind can not rule out the possiblity that she "could have" walked on her own.
1. Yes .. she appears to have a "close" relationship with her parents but we are "technically" only reading facebook posts from her mother which indicate this to be the case. Again .. there is "second hand info" (which I can not get into because they are deemed rumors) but there imo was some "parental conflicts" (and rightfully so on the parents part but kids don't always want to hear it) recently before Kortne went missing. There are some personal observations I could add but will not out of sheer respect for her parents. (Both of which I have had conversations with.)
2. Kortne was arrested just a few months prior to her going missing for furnishing alcohol to minors .. which she plead to a lesser charge. IF and I say IF she was possibly facing a second charge the night prior to her going missing she may have thought she would be facing jail time.
3. There are rumors stating that she/her bf owed someone money .. she may feel her life as well as her family is in danger.
4. IF and again I Say IF .. she was using any type of opiate drug .. this would dull her ability to care if her parents were "suffereing" with her being missing regardless of what type of relationship she had with them prior to her being missing.
5. I have personaly spoken to a bartender at a "dive bar" in the Harrisburg area that claims to have seen Kortne and there was a facebook post from another person on a mutual friends of both Kortne and mines page that she claims to have seen Kortne downtown Harrisburg around the midtown arts center .. which is the same "hood" as the dive bar. The bartender and Kortnes friend do not know each other.
6. The lack of public pleas by the parents and from LE are concerning to me if this was a homicide/kidnapping case.
7. "Kids" can not process long term problems like adults can. In her minds eye .. her problems may have far outweighed her solutions.
In my gut and my heart .. I feel that Kortne is a victim of foul play .. but my logical mind can not rule out the possiblity that she "could have" walked on her own.
I also wanted to add .. that *maybe* her boyfriend "flipped on her" and told cops that it was indeed Kortne that supplied the alochol to them and she felt "no one" was on her side around here, .. maybe she felt should couldn't trust anyone and had just had enough of everyone ..
BloodHoundSleuther
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Excellent post, I can see you really have thought things through Meems! Your 5th point really has me thinking! I also think your 7th point is very critical in that kids/young adults can definitely go off the deep end when they face adversity. I think about those who commit suicide after being bullied for instance. Kids just don't seem to have the resources and wherewithal to deal with problems the way adults do. I know I read somewhere that Kortne believed that her boyfriend would be locked up for much longer than he actually was, I think it was her dad who said this. It makes me wonder if Kortne had convinced herself that things were much worse than they actually were in reality?
Thanks BHS .. I want more than anything for Kortne to come home safely .. Having children her age .. I know how quickly it can seem (to them) that the whole world is against them. Especially when you won't say .. pay their bills for them or agree with their choice in "friends" ...
I mean .. whos to say that IF (and that's a big IF) she/they were dealing drugs .. even just pot .. she didn't have a disposable phone that she may still have .. hence leaving her "real phone" behind (which may have been in a parents name) IF "they" did owe someone money .. maybe .. that money was at the apt and she just took it and split .. and that's what she is living off of .. it really has only been 3 1/2 months (which to a parent or loved one is an eternity) Still soooo many unanswered questions .. just don't know what to think ... Everything could be a "possibility"
I mean .. whos to say that IF (and that's a big IF) she/they were dealing drugs .. even just pot .. she didn't have a disposable phone that she may still have .. hence leaving her "real phone" behind (which may have been in a parents name) IF "they" did owe someone money .. maybe .. that money was at the apt and she just took it and split .. and that's what she is living off of .. it really has only been 3 1/2 months (which to a parent or loved one is an eternity) Still soooo many unanswered questions .. just don't know what to think ... Everything could be a "possibility"
BloodHoundSleuther
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Great observations Meems, and believe me I know what you mean! I have a 19 year old step son who moved out about a year ago. Since he's been on his own, we rarely see him. At that age they want so badly to be independent and thrive on not needing their parents. At that age and even at Kortne's age, many of them think they have it all figured out and you can't tell them anything, somehow they think they know it all. Many young adults can still have a rebellious streak and don't like being told what or what not to do and who or who not to associate with. It's almost as if the teenager traits cross right over into adulthood and It's tough to deal with. However, I will say that all young adults aren't all this way, but many are.
I never considered the disposable phone theory, but yes if there is any drug involvement, especially dealing, that is a very good possibility. Also, I have thought about the idea that she could of just took money from the apartment and split. 3 1/2 months is a terribly terribly long time for the parents, but to Kortne, 3 1/2 months may not seem very long especially if there were problems between her and her parents and if she has enough money to meet her needs. Also, if they did owe someone money and she took it, then that would be all the more reason not to return home, especially if there's any chance that she may have been threatened at any point in time.
AndreaBingham
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The idea that KS left home of her own accord defies all sensible logic. There is, of course, the obvious question: Why would she split leave her belongings and dogs behind? But then there are other questions: 1.Why would she randomly leave in the middle of the night, with CP in her house? After a night of drinking? 2.Why wouldn't she take her car? I don't think the thought that she left of her own accord should even be entertained.
Regarding the body, I think the crazy part about this is that, regardless of whether or not it is Kortne, it is SOMEONE. SOMEONE was found dead in the middle of the woods, and there are not very many benign reasons for this to happen.
Regarding the body, I think the crazy part about this is that, regardless of whether or not it is Kortne, it is SOMEONE. SOMEONE was found dead in the middle of the woods, and there are not very many benign reasons for this to happen.
Meems You said what I often type but then delete because Im not sure what is allowed. But I too am local and yes all may not of been so perfect. WS fb post just seems to me like she is saying you never would of missed this or that before. Like she think KS is out there and has some control over if she comes home for dinner or niece/nephew first day of school. That said from what I gather WS loves her dearly and I do not mean that she is involved in any way!! More then I can say about others.
I also agree with your comment on the first incident that evening. I don't see how she could not of thought charges were going to be filed. LE stated she was the only one of age there that night. She plead to a lesser couple months before...that wasn't gonna happen again IMO.
Blood Hound Sleuth. What you stated about the money is exactly what I was trying to say but again was unsure on what I am allowed to post.
It bothers me that LE has not released more info and that the press seems unwilling to investigate and report. But what really upsets me is why is family, bf and friends soooo quiet?? I want KS to be found.
I also agree with your comment on the first incident that evening. I don't see how she could not of thought charges were going to be filed. LE stated she was the only one of age there that night. She plead to a lesser couple months before...that wasn't gonna happen again IMO.
Blood Hound Sleuth. What you stated about the money is exactly what I was trying to say but again was unsure on what I am allowed to post.
It bothers me that LE has not released more info and that the press seems unwilling to investigate and report. But what really upsets me is why is family, bf and friends soooo quiet?? I want KS to be found.
Defies all sensible logic!! 21 yr old beautiful girl living free, hippie lifestyle, drinking with minors (not the first time), bf gets picked up by probation officer, she doesnt go to family or to her friends house, instead she goes out to bar alone and meets up with CP and MR (fine upstanding gentleman) . Travels to Harrisburg and parties with them. Gets in a fight and has to leave bar. Comes back home with one of the guys. Gets into a verbal and physical altercation with the neighbors and then goes upstairs with CP. WHAT PART OF THAT IS LOGICAL? I am not judging KS at all...she did nothing I did not do when I was younger!!
Unfortunately, automatically not considering any one theory OR only consider one theory would not solve anything. So I would need some hard evidence before I would not even consider a theory. Sorry if post upset you, not trying to upset anyone, just want to help find KS!!
Unfortunately, automatically not considering any one theory OR only consider one theory would not solve anything. So I would need some hard evidence before I would not even consider a theory. Sorry if post upset you, not trying to upset anyone, just want to help find KS!!
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Kortne not calling her mother/father about her boyfriend being taken to jail has always bothered me. I know she called her brother. I sometimes wonder if the family relationship wasn't strained...
cluciano63
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I watched a "Disappeared" episode a few years ago about a young college-age woman who vanished along a highway, in her car. Her parents were convinced she had met foul play, but she also had some legal issues and was in fact about to be indicted for embezzlement. She turned up some years later working as a maid in a motel in another state. And she even left behind a small child.
That being said, I don't have the feeling that Kortne was the type of person who would be able to pull off something like that for this long without a plan in place and some help. (Nothing against Kortne, I just get the feeling she was/is more of a live in the moment type person.) I could see her taking off that night, maybe intending to go crash with a friend or even go to her mom's, but ended up taking a ride with the wrong person. Many people out at that hour would be a "wrong"person.
That being said, I don't have the feeling that Kortne was the type of person who would be able to pull off something like that for this long without a plan in place and some help. (Nothing against Kortne, I just get the feeling she was/is more of a live in the moment type person.) I could see her taking off that night, maybe intending to go crash with a friend or even go to her mom's, but ended up taking a ride with the wrong person. Many people out at that hour would be a "wrong"person.
If there wasn't a music festival in PA at almost the exact time that she disappeared I probably wouldn't be leaning too much to the ran off theory. But..This music festival seems like it would appeal to her and I wonder if she went to blow off steam and then intended to return. Possibly she left the car because she wasn't comfortable driving that distance, or it didn't have enough gas? I can see her attending a festival and deciding that the particular lifestyle encouraged there was something she wanted to be part of.
I have come across a photo of a girl from a particular event that looks very similar to Kortne..Would someone on here be able to confirm or deny if they think it looks like her. Its from a short distance, but the group of people in the photo look remarkably similar to a group she has photos of on fb...Possibly I am jsut clinging to something thats not there and thats why I am seeing what I see.
I have come across a photo of a girl from a particular event that looks very similar to Kortne..Would someone on here be able to confirm or deny if they think it looks like her. Its from a short distance, but the group of people in the photo look remarkably similar to a group she has photos of on fb...Possibly I am jsut clinging to something thats not there and thats why I am seeing what I see.
BloodHoundSleuther
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Well said aszhsh! Ruling anything out at this point is just not an option. There's way too much at stake to not consider every possibility under the sun!
BloodHoundSleuther
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Quite possibly, and let's face it, children don't necessarily want to tell their parents things that would disappoint them. Iv'e personally been in this spot and I'm sure many of us have as well. If you don't want your parents to know about something, then you do your level best to hide it, especially if whatever it is paints you in an unfavorable light.
BloodHoundSleuther
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Interesting about deleting posts because of not being sure what is allowed. I have done that more times than I have posted here to be honest. It's hard just how to approach certain things. I certainly don't want to do any harm and never intend to.
I agree on WS fb posts, it's almost eerily like she is questioning herself as to weather KS is seeing the comments herself.
I also agree with the first incident comments you mentioned above. So much can be said about this. When pleading to a lesser charge, does that mean she was on probation of some sort, I'm just not sure? In any event, the cops show up the second time, heated exchanges are going on between KS and the neighbor, this is after hours after her boyfriend was arrested. Then they clear the scene and leave. So, she decides after returning inside to stomp on the floor and then the cops return again. I really think that in her mind she may have been thinking that maybe they returned to charge her with assault from the earlier incident, or maybe they were there to issue a citation for disturbing the peace due to the stomping on the floor. Or maybe she got spooked after the nights events and figured maybe they came back to arrest her for furnishing alcohol to minors, so many questions and no answers?
Then we have the sightings, and from what I know a good deal of them that I have personally read about. Is this merely coincidence or more? Also, I think you mentioned this earlier, what accounts for one search? What accounts for so much silence within the community? Where is the media, the push for public information to be provided, and then finally, so much controversy over the remains that were found? So much that just doesn't add up at all!
Unfortunately, There are way more questions than answers here. I really hope KS is found as well, unfortunately, with a lack of credible facts to work from, it may be longer than any of us anticipate.
BloodHoundSleuther
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As you know, I refuse to rule anything out and for good reason. I have no idea if photo sharing is possible here. What I would advise you to do for Kortne's sake is submit whatever you have come across to KortneInfo@gmail.com. This is the tips line. Let the detectives take a look at it, you never know what you might have. Attach the photo you have to the email and submit it. It's just too important not to.
Thankyou. I have emailed the tip and hopefully it may be something. I agonised over it for quite some time, but thought it best to email and rule it out, then let it sit there if it is something. Thanks for your advice BHS :tyou:
It does seem to defy "sensible" logic for someone that is thinking sensibly. Again .. my gut tells me that Kortne met foul play of some kind .. however, the "lack" of LE's interest in searching the local area leads me to think otherwise .. unless of course, they are totally incapable of an investigation of this type (which could be possible, but I think the state police or FBI would have taken over without local LE consent)
I have known a child to "take off" in the middle of the night (after a night of drinking) leaving behind her car and children to run away with a man.
She was "found" after 9 days but those 9 days were horrible to her family. She still doesn't have her children because of her lifestyle choices. THAT to me defies sensible logic.
Why would Kortne leave her dog? Same reason this "woman" left her kids.
Why would Kortne leave her "house" with CP in it .. why would she care who was in it? It wasn't her house .. it was an apt she was renting .. she didn't own it .. she wasn't losing anything. IMO
Why wouldn't she take her car? Maybe she didn't own that either .. maybe it was in her parents name .. Why would she want to continue to make payments on something she didn't own .. maybe she didn't need it where she was planning on going ..
IF indeed she was hanging out in the Midtown Arts Center .. she could have "hooked up" with anyone from out of town and just taken off with them. http://stageonherr.net/ It's a pretty lively section of town.
Again .. I am not trying to be disrespectful .. maybe I am just trying to hold on to hope that she is out there trying to find herself .. and not concerned with others trying to find her. I do however pray that LE is considering these same things .. if not .. they have NOT conducted (IMO) an investigation condusive to a person being missing under suspicious circumstances, with their lack of public pleas and search efforts.
BloodHoundSleuther
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Again Meems, great thinking on your part! Your posts really impress me! You have a remarkable ability to refute comments using critical thinking skills and analysis. I also hope LE is considering these things as well!
As to the comments about her car, this is just one item she wouldn't take if she didn't want to be located for whatever reason. This also applies to her cell phone and even her purse for the same reasons.
If she took her car, she could be tracked down much easier due to LE investigation, cars are not easy to hide! All LE would need to do is locate the car and run the tag.
The cell phone could have been tracked just as easily through GPS locator. Even with the phones my kids have, I can easily log onto Sprint family locator and find out where the phones/kids are at any given time. Leaving her phone behind may be a real possibility if it was provided by her parents or if she just considered that the GPS locator service alone could indicate where she was.
Also, regarding the dog, if she left with the knowledge that CP was in her apartment, I'm sure she would have had enough forethought to realize that it wouldn't be long before someone noticed she was gone, thus knowing that the dog would be taken care of and just fine.
I know that thinking in this manner seems unconventional or out of the ordinary. However, it's just this sort of thinking and critical analysis that lead to me locating a family member that was missing for nearly 32 years. If I didn't think in these ways or analyze every possibility, I would still be sitting here assuming my family member met with foul play. In situations like this, you have to consider every option and think outside of the box. I also feel that it's more likely that Kortne met with foul play, however ruling anything out at this point would not be in the best interest of the investigation or the best interest of Kortne.
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