PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #6

[ktgirl]

Wasn't this one of the kids at the party at Kortne's apartment?

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci...-investigating-fatal-crash?source=most_viewed

I wonder why he was running from the police?

"Police said Michael Burdge Jr. died in the crash that happened after a police chase by South Londonderry Township police."

http://www.ldnews.com/news/ci_23400183?source=JBarTicker

Also, are we sure that the two who were cited for underaged drinking that night (who had their parents called) didn't meet back up with Kortne & company later that night?

 

[sreshowtime]

^ one does wonder

 

[ktgirl]

Geesh, just about everyone Kortne came into contact with that night (with the exception of the BF who was arrested for a probation violation) makes me suspicious.

 

[Meems]

Kortne .. where are you?

 

[sadnpod]

Yes Meems.. where the heck is Kortne and who the heck is looking for her?

 

[Eileen730]

i feel the same way, i think is has to do with us (as sleuthers) have had no new information since the very beginning, i feel as though LE gave up the day after it happened and nothing has moved along. We also don't hear an outcry from the public or parents as in some other cases of missing people her age. It's quite sad.

Could it be they believe KS walked off on her own?

 

[Meems]

I just we knew what her facebook posts were right befoe she went missing. There was lots of talk about relocation in the months, even years before .. as we know because they are visible, but I just wonder what her most recent posts that are not visible alluded to.

 

[eagle5516]

Could it be they believe KS walked off on her own?

I would like to believe that she left on her own, and as Meems has pointed out, there were Facebook posts about leaving.

However, the fact that her wallet, shoes, keys, cellphone, and dog were left behind suggests that she did not leave voluntarily. Further, she had a series of confrontations that night and may have been under the influence given that she visited two different bars that night. While she may have felt an urge to leave given different stressors in her life, I doubt that she would have vanished the way she did, almost without a trace, leaving in the middle of the night without any of the above items.

There's also the fact that the family is in the dark about where she is. From what we have heard, she was extremely close with her family and would have contacted them somehow. If she has contacted her parents somehow, they would have to be excellent actors to go on news shows, give interviews, and post things online while trying to find her. I am not at all critical of her parents, I think they have done everything they can to find her, they are still actively looking for her, and they have no idea where she is. Everyone reacts differently, but the Mel Gibson, Kevin Bacon, and Liam Neeson reactions are just in the movies.

In my opinion it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, for her to have left on her own under these circumstances.

However this is just my opinion. At this point I don't think any possibility can be ruled out, and as time goes on with no new developments, I think a voluntary disappearance should be considered along with every other possibility.

Still, in my opinion, it is still far more likely that the guilty parties & possible explanations have already been discussed in the press, internally by LE, and/or on message boards and that people with information about what happened have held it together somehow and have not come forward to the police. This could change if anyone catches a new case and wants to makes a deal. Or if someone's conscience reawakens and they want to try to make things right in some small way. If anyone out there is following these posts, please consider reporting what you know anonymously, if for no other reason than to give her family closure or to be able to sleep easier. If greed is a more powerful motivator, there's also the reward to think about.

Just my opinion folks, not trying to offend anyone.

 

[Chanler]

I would like to believe that she left on her own, and as Meems has pointed out, there were Facebook posts about leaving.

However, the fact that her wallet, shoes, keys, cellphone, and dog were left behind suggests that she did not leave voluntarily. Further, she had a series of confrontations that night and may have been under the influence given that she visited two different bars that night. While she may have felt an urge to leave given different stressors in her life, I doubt that she would have vanished the way she did, almost without a trace, leaving in the middle of the night without any of the above items.

There's also the fact that the family is in the dark about where she is. From what we have heard, she was extremely close with her family and would have contacted them somehow. If she has contacted her parents somehow, they would have to be excellent actors to go on news shows, give interviews, and post things online while trying to find her. I am not at all critical of her parents, I think they have done everything they can to find her, they are still actively looking for her, and they have no idea where she is. Everyone reacts differently, but the Mel Gibson, Kevin Bacon, and Liam Neeson reactions are just in the movies.

In my opinion it is extremely unlikely, if not impossible, for her to have left on her own under these circumstances.

However this is just my opinion. At this point I don't think any possibility can be ruled out, and as time goes on with no new developments, I think a voluntary disappearance should be considered along with every other possibility.

Still, in my opinion, it is still far more likely that the guilty parties & possible explanations have already been discussed in the press, internally by LE, and/or on message boards and that people with information about what happened have held it together somehow and have not come forward to the police. This could change if anyone catches a new case and wants to makes a deal. Or if someone's conscience reawakens and they want to try to make things right in some small way. If anyone out there is following these posts, please consider reporting what you know anonymously, if for no other reason than to give her family closure or to be able to sleep easier. If greed is a more powerful motivator, there's also the reward to think about.

Just my opinion folks, not trying to offend anyone.

Hi, Eagle5516; thanks for such a well-stated post. I think that she might have walked out on her own, but not with any long-range plan. Given the craziness of the evening and night, it wouldn't surprise me if she left the apartment to clear her head or perhaps find a pot connection

Every time I see her picture, I think of how sad this must be for family and friends.

 

[scorekeeper]

I don't think Kortne left willingly or under her own wishes. I think she may have walked outside to meet with someone but was not planning on leaving with them.

There are a lot of players around Kortne that some of us here may not be aware of or to be able to discuss.

Was Kortne scheduled to appear in court due to serving underage kids?

And I do believe that the young man that was killed in the above-mentioned accident was on of those charged with underage drinking while at Kortne's.

Someone knows what happened and where Kortne is.

jmo

 

[eagle5516]

I am not sure if this violates the rules of WebSlths, I apologize if it does. Several of us have commented about the similarities of KS's case with that of Lauren Spierer. There are several: both disappeared after a night of drinking, both were last seen with friends/acquaintances, the parents have complained that the friends have been less than cooperative, there are rumors/allegations of drug involvement by some of the people mentioned in articles in each disappearance. Sadly, these facts seem to be common themes in the disappearances of a lot of young people. I count myself lucky that I didn't vanish under similar circumstances in my early 20s.

Anyway, LS's parents have filed a civil lawsuit against three of the people believed to be the last people to see their daughter alive. Without getting into the details of that case, one possible advantage of a civil case is that you can compel discovery (document requests and depositions) from the defendants. In other words (if you can keep the case from getting dismissed) your lawyer can question the defendants for a full day each. They basically have to answer any questions, as long as they are plausibly related to the lawsuit and not completely inappropriate or harassing. Of course, if you are a civil defendant, your lawyer can advise you to plead to 5th if certain answers would subject you to criminal liability.

No idea if the LS civil lawsuit is solid, but I hope the parents are able to get some answers that could give them closure/justice. There's also the possibility that LE could take notice of anything brought to light during the civil case that could be relevant to the criminal investigation. I also hope that no one is unfairly targeted in the civil process.

Here is the LS complaint: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wthr/PDF/spiererlawsuit.pdf.

I can't help but wonder what a lawsuit in KS's disappearance would look like. Of course, there are several differences here, the most major one is that LS was slurring her words and unsteady on her feet, and at least from what I've read, we don't have that here. Interested in anyone's thoughts on this. I wonder what Rominger thinks about this. I am going to assume that KS's parents have discussed this option with him. God forbid we learn that KS is deceased, there could be a wrongful death claim.

 

[SurfieTX]

I am not sure if this violates the rules of WebSlths, I apologize if it does. Several of us have commented about the similarities of KS's case with that of Lauren Spierer. There are several: both disappeared after a night of drinking, both were last seen with friends/acquaintances, the parents have complained that the friends have been less than cooperative, there are rumors/allegations of drug involvement by some of the people mentioned in articles in each disappearance. Sadly, these facts seem to be common themes in the disappearances of a lot of young people. I count myself lucky that I didn't vanish under similar circumstances in my early 20s.

Anyway, LS's parents have filed a civil lawsuit against three of the people believed to be the last people to see their daughter alive. Without getting into the details of that case, one possible advantage of a civil case is that you can compel discovery (document requests and depositions) from the defendants. In other words (if you can keep the case from getting dismissed) your lawyer can question the defendants for a full day each. They basically have to answer any questions, as long as they are plausibly related to the lawsuit and not completely inappropriate or harassing. Of course, if you are a civil defendant, your lawyer can advise you to plead to 5th if certain answers would subject you to criminal liability.

No idea if the LS civil lawsuit is solid, but I hope the parents are able to get some answers that could give them closure/justice. There's also the possibility that LE could take notice of anything brought to light during the civil case that could be relevant to the criminal investigation. I also hope that no one is unfairly targeted in the civil process.

Here is the LS complaint: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wthr/PDF/spiererlawsuit.pdf.

I can't help but wonder what a lawsuit in KS's disappearance would look like. Of course, there are several differences here, the most major one is that LS was slurring her words and unsteady on her feet, and at least from what I've read, we don't have that here. Interested in anyone's thoughts on this. I wonder what Rominger thinks about this. I am going to assume that KS's parents have discussed this option with him. God forbid we learn that KS is deceased, there could be a wrongful death claim.

Yes, Kyron Horman's mom did the same thing against Terri (the stepmom). It went through and it was really interesting to see which questions were voluntarily answered and which ones she and other witnesses plead the 5th too...very telling.

 

[reedus23]

I am not sure if this violates the rules of WebSlths, I apologize if it does. Several of us have commented about the similarities of KS's case with that of Lauren Spierer. There are several: both disappeared after a night of drinking, both were last seen with friends/acquaintances, the parents have complained that the friends have been less than cooperative, there are rumors/allegations of drug involvement by some of the people mentioned in articles in each disappearance. Sadly, these facts seem to be common themes in the disappearances of a lot of young people. I count myself lucky that I didn't vanish under similar circumstances in my early 20s.

Anyway, LS's parents have filed a civil lawsuit against three of the people believed to be the last people to see their daughter alive. Without getting into the details of that case, one possible advantage of a civil case is that you can compel discovery (document requests and depositions) from the defendants. In other words (if you can keep the case from getting dismissed) your lawyer can question the defendants for a full day each. They basically have to answer any questions, as long as they are plausibly related to the lawsuit and not completely inappropriate or harassing. Of course, if you are a civil defendant, your lawyer can advise you to plead to 5th if certain answers would subject you to criminal liability.

No idea if the LS civil lawsuit is solid, but I hope the parents are able to get some answers that could give them closure/justice. There's also the possibility that LE could take notice of anything brought to light during the civil case that could be relevant to the criminal investigation. I also hope that no one is unfairly targeted in the civil process.

Here is the LS complaint: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/wthr/PDF/spiererlawsuit.pdf.

I can't help but wonder what a lawsuit in KS's disappearance would look like. Of course, there are several differences here, the most major one is that LS was slurring her words and unsteady on her feet, and at least from what I've read, we don't have that here. Interested in anyone's thoughts on this. I wonder what Rominger thinks about this. I am going to assume that KS's parents have discussed this option with him. God forbid we learn that KS is deceased, there could be a wrongful death claim.

As long as you have some reasonable basis for the lawsuit, I'm surprised this isn't done more often, at least when a family is fairly confident who is responsible but LE or the DA just doesn't feel they have sufficient evidence, given they have a higher burden of proof as well.

 

[alliemay]

Could it be they believe KS walked off on her own?

For the first couple of weeks in this thread I thought she was still alive. It was obvious (IMO), that when she came home she was not a girl who showed any sign of being tired at that hour of the morning, in fact it appeared just the opposite. Riling up the neighbors and confronting them so the police where called again. I really would like to know what that incident report stated, what were some of the words Kortne used in her own defense, what was her demeanor? Calm in front of the police so they would not arrest her on the spot (I wish they had now) for disorderly conduct and adding to the other trouble she had been in prior to this night. After they left she stomps on the floor some more another indication that she could not let "it" go. I do not think foul play happened inside the apartment. She could have walked outside onto her porch, taking a smoke break to "cool off" you don't need all your belongings if you are out side on your porch for five minutes. Maybe someone she knew came by and asked her to sit in the car and talk? I know they had access to her cell phone, would there be a way to check to see if things were erased? Did she have a house phone as well as a cell phone? Did she have a computer in the apartment? I know she had a face book, but maybe she used her computer from work for that. If she had one at home maybe she talked with someone on there before she went missing? Legally is there a cut off time before LE has to release some of what they know, or do they prefer to wait until its a twenty year old cold case. Frustrating, I can't imagine what the family is going through.

 

[cluciano63]

As long as you have some reasonable basis for the lawsuit, I'm surprised this isn't done more often, at least when a family is fairly confident who is responsible but LE or the DA just doesn't feel they have sufficient evidence, given they have a higher burden of proof as well.

If the witnesses can take the Fifth whenever it is convenient, I don't see how the truth will ever come out in these cases. Even if a technical/legal victory is obtained...you can never force someone not to lie. I understand the need to file such a case, but have little optimism that anyone with guilt will tell the truth.

I do not think Kortne is alive, and staying away by choice.

 

[reedus23]

If the witnesses can take the Fifth whenever it is convenient, I don't see how the truth will ever come out in these cases. Even if a technical/legal victory is obtained...you can never force someone not to lie. I understand the need to file such a case, but have little optimism that anyone with guilt will tell the truth.

I do not think Kortne is alive, and staying away by choice.

Oh, I don't think all answers are ever answered, even after a trial and conviction. I do think the family would be able to find and get more information than they now know, though that may not be more than LE already knows. I think such suits may serve a purpose if LE isn't doing anything or LE isn't talking to the family to some degree. Frankly, I would use it more for the subpoena power than expecting a confession. Subpoena phone records of everyone involved. Same with computers/emails/facebook etc.

 

[sadnpod]

Still here waiting on word of you, Kortne. Its been too long and your thread is too far down. Where is Kortne?????

 

[alliemay]

This case reminds me of Phylicia Thomas's case, I'm hoping Kortne's case does not go as many years as Phylicia's has.

 

[Meems]

~ prayers ~ this is someones someone ...

Approx 50 miles away from where Kortne went missing.

http://www.abc27.com/story/22882040/remains-found-near-susquehanna-river

 

[Annie1004]

I was just thinking about Kortne. How timely to see a new message.

It will take months to identify the bones.

How I pray it's not Kortne, but then she has been missing for almost a year. Nada, nothing, just vanished. SMH.