PA PA - Kortne Ciera Stouffer, 21, Palmyra, 29 July 2012 - #6

[SnoopJohnB]

Here's an interesting article in the Lebanon Daily News.

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_23739510/year-later-kortne-stouffers-fate-still-mystery

Here is the part I found interesting: "Arnold said she got into an argument there with another woman over the woman's boyfriend, with whom Stouffer had had a dispute in the past. Arnold said the other woman was defending her boyfriend, but he didn't say what the argument was about."

Here is part two of this "series":

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_23751238/kortne-stouffers-family-waits-wonders

There are some interesting comments from SS about the boyfriend. But the way, the boyfriend was recently found lying in a field and was transported to the hospital. He had wrecked his motorcycle.

 

[SnoopJohnB]

Here is part two of this "series":

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_23751238/kortne-stouffers-family-waits-wonders

There are some interesting comments from SS about the boyfriend. But the way, the boyfriend was recently found lying in a field and was transported to the hospital. He had wrecked his motorcycle.

Here is part 3 of the series, and this is about the most LE have ever revealed on the case:

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_23751243/frustrating-search-kortne-stouffer-yields-few-leads

 

[scorekeeper]

Here is part two of this "series":

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_23751238/kortne-stouffers-family-waits-wonders

There are some interesting comments from SS about the boyfriend. But the way, the boyfriend was recently found lying in a field and was transported to the hospital. He had wrecked his motorcycle.

Thanks for the article, Snoop

Also from article:


One of many theories - one that Stouffer said he does not discount - is that a boyfriend may have been involved in something that led to her kidnapping.

"He's been very unwilling to cooperate. He's been very unwilling to give information to police. He's been very unwilling to return my calls," Stouffer said. "There's been a very mysterious black cloud that has surrounded (the boyfriend). There's been times I've asked him to contact me in reference to Kortne, people they were in contact with, people they were dealing with that weren't good people, and he's never responded."

Also, was it ever figured out when the BF's dad went and picked up his dog?

 

[Trackergd]

Good questions Eagle .. I don't have the answers but can't help but wonder if a body left in summer weather wouldn't have been found in a popular fishing spot, mostly by the smell alone.

Not to mention swarms of flies and the activity of scavengers, crows and buzzards. Dogs (trained or not) should have alerted to the scent if downwind.

Just my :twocents:

 

[looks like rain]

Here is part two of this "series":

http://www.ldnews.com/latestnews/ci_23751238/kortne-stouffers-family-waits-wonders

There are some interesting comments from SS about the boyfriend. But the way, the boyfriend was recently found lying in a field and was transported to the hospital. He had wrecked his motorcycle.

The boyfriend has always been on my radar as being involved. I don't believe he was locked up in jail for some reason. It seems odd that his probation/parole officer came for him that weekend just for drinking. It seems like some srt of set-up. JMOO

 

[fallingdown]

Thanks for the article, Snoop

Also from article:


One of many theories - one that Stouffer said he does not discount - is that a boyfriend may have been involved in something that led to her kidnapping.

"He's been very unwilling to cooperate. He's been very unwilling to give information to police. He's been very unwilling to return my calls," Stouffer said. "There's been a very mysterious black cloud that has surrounded (the boyfriend). There's been times I've asked him to contact me in reference to Kortne, people they were in contact with, people they were dealing with that weren't good people, and he's never responded."

Also, was it ever figured out when the BF's dad went and picked up his dog?

RE: BF's dad. I don't recall if this was ever really addressed in the media. If it was then it wasn't answered to my satisfaction. But then again, nothing ever is....

It's interesting to learn that BF hasn't been cooperative.

 

[scorekeeper]

RE: BF's dad. I don't recall if this was ever really addressed in the media. If it was then it wasn't answered to my satisfaction. But then again, nothing ever is....

It's interesting to learn that BF hasn't been cooperative.

I found it very odd and still do that the BF has never pleaded for her return or pleaded for her to return home......

way to many unanswered questions about that relationship and the friends he/Kortne kept........

Thanks for posting the article!!

 

[ktgirl]

Thinking about Kortne & her family today. Her family deserves answers.

 

[Meems]

so sorry Kortne that it has gone on for this long ...

 

[sreshowtime]

....

Also, was it ever figured out when the BF's dad went and picked up his dog?

snipped- yeah exactly- has never been answered to my knowledge and remains a burning question of mine.
------
the silence from that quarter is perplexing to say the least...odd way to show 'love' imho

 

[Money Girl]

I am still very suspicious of the downstairs neighbor.

 

[curioser]

The boyfriend's silence is interesting.

On one hand, I don't think it's suspicious that he wasn't/isn't pining away for his girlfriend, because they were young. Relationships can be fleeting.

On the other hand, it could be suspicious that he's not really said anything at all. Not that I necessarily think that he was responsible- but he could know something he hasn't told. And if that something also involves him (there was mention of drug dealing), then maybe he is keeping his mouth shut to protect himself.

 

[PBJ2585]

I agree. From the quotes and news mentioned about him, I imagine he doesn't want to expose himself or others to intense scrutiny. In case that would uncover drug dealers and dealings he doesn't want investigated.

I don't think he is involved first hand unless it pertained to dealings they had involving drugs or money. Completely my opinion though.

This is a tough case as it was not handled well by the police from the very beginning and there does seem to be multiple possibilities based on Kortne's friends and lifestyle choices. There seems to be numerous scenarios because of some of the things that have surfaced about her friends etc. She needs to be found and it makes me sad it has been over a year.

No way do I think she left on her own for this long! MOO!

The boyfriend's silence is interesting.

On one hand, I don't think it's suspicious that he wasn't/isn't pining away for his girlfriend, because they were young. Relationships can be fleeting.

On the other hand, it could be suspicious that he's not really said anything at all. Not that I necessarily think that he was responsible- but he could know something he hasn't told. And if that something also involves him (there was mention of drug dealing), then maybe he is keeping his mouth shut to protect himself.

 

[eagle5516]

RE: BF's dad. I don't recall if this was ever really addressed in the media. If it was then it wasn't answered to my satisfaction. But then again, nothing ever is....

It's interesting to learn that BF hasn't been cooperative.

Thank you fallingdown, in my opinion your last several posts have been right on. We definitely agree on the strong likelihood of Kortne not leaving on her own. I also agree with you about the significance of the unidentified people who were with KS that night, and in my opinion there is a strong likelihood that they could be involved. I have posted about this before and outlined my theories, but I have not done so recently, partly because I'm never sure what is acceptable to post here, and there haven't been any recent developments in the news until the recent stories. Although it's largely pieced together from internet rumors, I'm sure that at least some others on this board share the general theory that there was drug involvement, money was owed and KS had arguments with one or more of the unidentified people, possibly people she and/or her bf owed money to on the night that she disappeared. Just my opinion of course, this could be way off.

A few thoughts on this after the recent articles:

1) The latest couple of articles generally support, or at least don't contradict this idea. The police are saying that they still believe that she was forcibly taken out of the apartment against her will. This was the original justification for the search warrants. We can guess at whose car(s) the police think she may have been transported in against her will based on which vehicles were searched.

2) SS's comments about the BF are definitely interesting. I support the way that SS has been involved in this from the start, I think he's looking at the key aspects of this disappearance the right way. While searching quarries and getting into helicopters and riding horses may be a way of finding a body, I think that traditional investigation and interviewing the people who were in KS's life (especially those she saw and had contact with in the last 48 hours before her disappearance) is the key solving this.

Reading between the lines, I think SS is trying to get out of the bf details about any drug involvement and unsavory characters that KS and the bf may have had contact or conflicts with. I think early on they may not have wanted to isolate the bf more by making public comments about any lack of cooperation from the bf, but now SS may feel he has nothing to lose by speaking on this issue. I don't think the bf had any active involvement in the disappearance, but yes he could be more helpful. Could be that he's not talking because he feels he's following the rules of the amoral drug culture.

I take issue with this. I agree that the whole system is designed to get people to save their own necks by giving info on other people to the police. Some people are professional informants who get paid to give up others, or who avoid jail time by making other people do jail time.

Message to the bf: That is not the case here, those rules don't apply. A grandmother who testifies about a murder she witnesses in her neighborhood is not a "snitch." If your girlfriend disappears, do everything you can to find her and bring justice the people who are responsible. If the people responsible are dangerous and you are scared, fine. Let the police do their jobs, you've got a whole army of well-armed LE ready to go get these guys. Be a man and assist in the investigation and give some peace to her family.

It could also be that he's not talking because he doesn't want to be the next to disappear. It may seem like the hard way, but the best way to protect himself is by cooperating.

This is assuming he knows something, he may not.

3) Police comments on the conflicts between KS and the man and girlfriend are interesting. I've always thought it was possible that they were LE's #1 suspects, and that CP and MR could have looked the other way or even aided the couple in KS's disappearance. If you believe the internet rumors about large amounts of drug money owed, it's possible they could be the "debt holders." Rumor has it that CP and MR are friends with the person that KS and her BF allegedly owed money to. Although, the article's wording is a little odd since it says that the woman was "defending her bf." While it sounds like KS was(is) an assertive young woman, it is a little tough to imagine a dangerous drug character being defended by his gf. So this may cut against this theory, but I guess stranger things have happened.

Just my opinions.

 

[SnoopJohnB]

Thanks for your comments and thoughts about the most recent articles. Here are my thoughts.

It became obvious a while back to me that LE does not share everything with SS. So just because SS doesn't know something, it doesn't mean LE has not already investigated it and have not shared the results with SS. Because of this, just because the boyfriend has not shared information with SS doesn't mean he has not shared information with LE. And let's not forget that SS himself was not left out of the potential suspect pool by LE. For example, there is mention that there was no truth to the internet rumor that there was another burglary leading up to the disappearance. Only one person could have provided that information to LE, and it was the boyfriend. So we can not state that the boyfriend hasn't been cooperative with LE. That's SS stating that's he's been frustrated with the boyfriend cooperating with HIM. Who knows what the relationship was like between the boyfriend and SS before the disappearance or between K and SS for that matter.

Remember, SS wanted to know why K went to California, who she was with, what she was doing. It turns out that LE already investigated that and found no connection to her disappearance. So again, SS's knowledge is not indicative of what LE knows.

We now know that LE identified and have questioned the people at the Hardware Bar with whom K had the altercation. We did not know that before.

Overall, I am more confident in the investigation being conducted by LE and don't see why it has taken this long to detail some of their efforts.

As far as internet rumors go, virtually everything has been debunked at this point. And sometimes we find some things out and we can't always post things here because of Webslueth rules. But it always points to: you can't believe anything that a bunch of anonymous people who pretend like they know something post in some comment section on some website. And it also occurs to me that SS sees the same rumors and wants to know more about them while LE has already investigated them and put the rumor to rest.

I am not at all trying to say anything negative about SS. All I'm saying is that it because fairly obvious to me quite some time ago that LE does not share everything with SS, so what SS knows is not indicative of what LE knows.

 

[eagle5516]

Thanks Snoop for your post. I certainly agree that caution is warranted whenever anonymous internet posts are at issue. It isn't a great idea to relay heavily on anonymous posts. To the extent that myself or others have considered that these posts could be true, I think that's mostly the result of having little new details in the mainstream media to rely on.

You referred to the part of the LDNews story where it seems they are quoting the DA's office about how they looked into the trip to CA determined that it wasn't related to the disappearance and how they did not find evidence to support the rumor that there had been a burglary shortly before the disappearance. The original anonymous post referenced two burglaries, and one where floorboards were ripped up. I am assuming that they mean they did not find evidence of the floorboards being ripped up, presumably that would be noticeable. However, there is evidence of at least one burglary since KS reported a burglary a month of two before she disappeared. There was an article in the LDNews where they listed the theft of the infamous cash counting machine. There's also a burglary that the downstairs neighbor reported not long before the disappearance. That could just mean that someone targeted the whole building because they needed money. However the theft of the cash counting machine does play into the anonymous posts we are alluding to.

Point well taken on the bf possibly cooperating with LE. I think I may have even posted a similar comment about this in the past. I guess it was just the new articles and fallingdown's posts that got me thinking again about different theories.

Not sure about SS never having been ruled out as a suspect. By definition in these cases, I guess the male relatives/boyfriends/friends are suspects until they are ruled out. However, I thought that SS was allowed to participate in the search, but others were not. This suggests that they did rule him out, at least to the extent of letting him help in the initial searches. Also a good point you made about SS not knowing everything that LE does. This is as it should be, and I think I may have posted something similar on this in the past too! Just for the record, I don't know SS, have never met him. I just don't think there's anything to suggest he has ever been a suspect and I don't have any reason to question his reactions to this terrible situation.

I am 100% with you on confidence in LE's investigation. While the first 48 might be the crucial period and it's natural for SS to question their work during that time, the recent articles make me very comfortable with what they've done, at least since then. Interviewing 100s of people, and giving many lie detectors (regardless of how accurate those tests really are), shows that they've been very thorough about investigating this. I am sure they have ruled out some possibilities (the neighbors' involvement and the bounty hunter's theory, as well as the various unidentified bodies that have popped-up, in my opinion), I don't know if we can say sure which possibilites they have ruled out.

 

[reedus23]

I'm sorry, but I still just see no way CP knows nothing. Whether he's involved or not, he was there, there was a relatively small window for anything to happen and I just find it difficult to believe he doesn't know something. Hopefully, whatever that is, he has passed it along.

 

[SnoopJohnB]

Hi Eagle:

"You referred to the part of the LDNews story where it seems they are quoting the DA's office about how they looked into the trip to CA determined that it wasn't related to the disappearance..."

Regarding the trip to CA, I knew what K's connection was to CA and assumed at the time, incorrectly, that if SS did not know the details, then LE had not investigated it. It was one of the few times I contacted the tip line. But it became clear to me that I wasn't telling them anything they didn't already know or had not already investigated.

"The original anonymous post referenced two burglaries, and one where floorboards were ripped up. I am assuming that they mean they did not find evidence of the floorboards being ripped up, presumably that would be noticeable. However, there is evidence of at least one burglary since KS reported a burglary a month of two before she disappeared. There was an article in the LDNews where they listed the theft of the infamous cash counting machine. There's also a burglary that the downstairs neighbor reported not long before the disappearance. That could just mean that someone targeted the whole building because they needed money. However the theft of the cash counting machine does play into the anonymous posts we are alluding to."

There was the burglary with the counting machine reported in the news and I don't consider that to be Internet rumor, nor to my recollection, mentioned along with the floorboard allegation. The floorboard rumor was internet rumor, investigated and determined to be false. I'm sure that LE asked the boyfriend if any such burglary had taken place and obvisouly he said no. And in examining the apartment, they probably could cooberate that no such floor damage existed.

"I don't know SS, have never met him. I just don't think there's anything to suggest he has ever been a suspect and I don't have any reason to question his reactions to this terrible situation."

SS, in a fairly recent interview, I want to say a few months back, did indeed say that LE had considered him a suspect and he was frustrated by that, since he thought they were wasting time when they could have been looking for the real culprit. And LE have said they have not ruled anybody out. So that information came from SS himself. If I get time later, I will try to find a link to the article for you. Now that I think about it, it could have been the same article where he wanted to know more about the trip to CA.

 

[SnoopJohnB]

Snip....

But what's more, Stouffer told abc27 News that at times investigators have focused their attention on him as a suspect.

"It makes no sense," he said. "And that's what it goes back to: common sense. And I think they (the police) could use their common sense a little bit better and focus on the right people in the right directions with obvious reasons someone would want to hurt my daughter."

http://www.abc27.com/story/21352657/midstate-mysteries-the-disappearance-of-kortne-stouffer

 

[SnoopJohnB]

Below are some more quotes from the very same article. What happens is the reporters usually intermix information from Arnold and SS as if each is an authoritative source of information and it becomes confusing or incorrectly gives the message that SS is informed on everything.

So in my opinion, SS is reporting internet rumor as fact, LE investigates and it proves to be false.

SS says "I'm curious if somebody actually tracked down the location of where she went," he said. "I'd like to talk to that person."

Who would track down where she went? LE would. So isn't SS saying he'd like to talk to the LE official that tracked down where she went? Doesn't that imply that LE is not sharing everything?

You can draw some of your own conclusions here.

--------------------------------------------

He said her apartment was burglarized twice leading up to her disappearance. He said in one of those cases, Kortne alerted Palmyra police.

Arnold admits that investigators have spent time focusing on those break-ins, calling them "suspicious."

They've also spent time looking into a trip Kortne took to Sacramento, California earlier in the summer. Was it related to her disappearance? Arnold said it can't be ruled out.

That unusual trip is something Scott Stouffer would like to learn more about.

"I'm curious if somebody actually tracked down the location of where she went," he said. "I'd like to talk to that person."