PA - Leon Katz, infant, murdered, and twin, injured by babysitter, Pittsburgh- June 24, 2024

[ChatteringBirds]

Quoting your words:
There are many heinous cases of child abuse. If she's guilty, this is one of them.

You are expressing a generality, right? Not to be directly relating to Nicole??

Yes, I mean there are many cases generally, some of which we see on WS, not that any others have anything to do with Nicole. Apologies for any confusion.

There is no reason to think she's committed other crimes before, to be clear. And she is still innocent unless proven guilty in court.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Two items from the article stand out to me, and generate more questions.
- The bouncer height to floor is 18 inches. Did NV state the bouncer was on the floor? Or on a counter or table?
- NV stated that AK scratched himself while she was putting him in a car seat? When did that happen and where was she going?

She said she found Leon lying on his left side on the floor with a large bump on his head. Detectives wrote in the complaint that it is about 18 inches from the tallest point of the bouncer seat to the floor.

Doctors told investigators the injured twin, Ari, had small scratches on both sides of his face, two bruises below his belly button and swelling, bruising, redness and scratches to his genitals, according to the complaint. Medical professionals said the injuries to both boys were unnatural and indicative of abuse.

Ms. Virzi told police she was the one who spotted the injuries to the other twin and alerted the parents. She said infant scratched his own face when he flailed as she was putting him in his car seat, according to the complaint. She was the only one watching over Leon once his parents left to take his brother to the hospital.

DA seeks death penalty against San Diego woman accused in Shadyside newborn's death

The Allegheny County District Attorney’s Office will seek the death penalty against a California woman accused of killing her friend’s newborn...

www.post-gazette.com

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Two items from the article stand out to me, and generate more questions.
- The bouncer height to floor is 18 inches. Did NV state the bouncer was on the floor? Or on a counter or table?
- NV stated that AK scratched himself while she was putting him in a car seat? When did that happen and where was she going?

She said she found Leon lying on his left side on the floor with a large bump on his head. Detectives wrote in the complaint that it is about 18 inches from the tallest point of the bouncer seat to the floor.

Doctors told investigators the injured twin, Ari, had small scratches on both sides of his face, two bruises below his belly button and swelling, bruising, redness and scratches to his genitals, according to the complaint. Medical professionals said the injuries to both boys were unnatural and indicative of abuse.

Ms. Virzi told police she was the one who spotted the injuries to the other twin and alerted the parents. She said infant scratched his own face when he flailed as she was putting him in his car seat, according to the complaint. She was the only one watching over Leon once his parents left to take his brother to the hospital.

DA seeks death penalty against San Diego woman accused in Shadyside newborn's death

The Allegheny County District Attorney’s Office will seek the death penalty against a California woman accused of killing her friend’s newborn...

www.post-gazette.com

I thought perhaps she put him in the car seat as the parents were getting ready to go to the hospital? But it is an interesting question. Those poor babies and the poor parents. I'm so curious if she attended their wedding 1 year earlier and if they had socialized in person otherwise. Justice for the babies. Their 1st anniversary and 1st Father's Day continues to strike me as an odd time for a visitor. Curious who initiated it. MOOO.

 

[SMK777]

I keep wondering, IF she is guilty and was intentional in her actions, could she possibly have been arrogant enough to assume she wouldn’t be suspected? It doesn’t really make sense, but otherwise if she did act with malice then she was willing to be incarcerated forever? I just can’t grasp her logic….

 

[Mauig’ma]

I’m having trouble with the same question. Why risk it all and for what reason? The only thing I can say is the look on her mugshot says it all for me. No tears. I see hatred and have no doubt she injured and killed the one tiny twin and injured the other. Moo

 

[Curious Me]

...I see hatred and have no doubt...

Really? Just from a look at her mug shot you determine she must be guilty? With all due respect to you, @Mauig'ma, I don't see hatred there so much as I see a blank, a void, like she's not in there at the moment. How we perceive someone though is subjective, not objective. We need to know more facts.

Hearing just snippets of the crimes we all have our own subjective responses. Some people have a whole theory weaved together. All I'm saying is it's hard for me to understand any motivation on her part without more info.

The acts upon these babies are bizarre because she was just briefly visiting. She wasn't around them on a steady basis or for that long to be that aggravated with them, and yet one twin injured and one twin died in her care, and she's now facing a DP trial. None of what we know makes sense to us yet, not really.

Please know this is all my own thoughts and MOO.​

 

[Curious Me]

Do you believe the charges should be different?

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This is all MOO here. Thanks for asking that, @ChatteringBirds, and being open to seeing this from different angles.

The charges are what they are, but going for a Death Penalty sentence is, how I see it, almost a ploy to get her to take a plea deal. This is not like the nurse that killed baby after baby. Or like a parent that continuedly beat their child to death. From what I can only surmise, her background is not one of a vicious criminal killer of babies, so I'm begging for more info.

Depending on which direction her defense takes, maybe she needs to be mentally evaluated. I also see a strong defense arguing the injuries were not intentionally inflicted. If this went to trial I'd think jurors would struggle to see what was the motivation in harming those infants.

Getting jurors to sentence her to death should require proving some evil premeditated intent. Oh, but let's not forget there's probably already a plan to offer her a plea deal so she can avoid the DP, and that does seem a bit coercive. For some reason this case made me realize maybe plea deals are being relied on too much and maybe the judicial system has changed more than I realized. ​

 

[steeltowngirl]

Reading back to the statement made by NV’s attorney, it seems NV acknowledges that something happened while the babies were in her care. Unless LK was previously injured by someone else, and the fall was real and exacerbated the injury. So much yet to learn about this case. I was surprised by the DP intention by the DA.

Shrager said all the facts in the case have yet to come out.

"There is a general misunderstanding of what transpired in the public. And we ask that people wait until they've heard all the facts to resolve their thoughts on this matter. And the facts will come out at the appropriate time at the appropriate venue. We asked that people refrain from judging," Shrager said.

California woman accused of killing friend's newborn in Pittsburgh makes court appearance

A woman facing several charges, including homicide in the death of a baby in Pittsburgh, made an appearance in court.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[mickey2942]

She must have a lot of rage or hatred towards her friend. I can't imagine this. Horrible to see abuse towards babies.

 

[SMK777]

Really? Just from a look at her mug shot you determine she must be guilty? With all due respect to you, @Mauig'ma, I don't see hatred there so much as I see a blank, a void, like she's not in there at the moment. How we perceive someone though is subjective, not objective. We need to know more facts.

Hearing just snippets of the crimes we all have our own subjective responses. Some people have a whole theory weaved together. All I'm saying is it's hard for me to understand any motivation on her part without more info.

The acts upon these babies are bizarre because she was just briefly visiting. She wasn't around them on a steady basis or for that long to be that aggravated with them, and yet one twin injured and one twin died in her care, and she's now facing a DP trial. None of what we know makes sense to us yet, not really.

Please know this is all my own thoughts and MOO.​

Absolutely agree that since she was briefly visiting it’s not like the day in day out child caretaker who builds up resentment and explodes.
That is what is so baffling.
Her mug shot could be viewed as someone dissociating from shock.
There are just too many unknowns here, and I wish we had more information. I virtually don’t know what to make of any of it at this point.

 

[SMK777]

Reading back to the statement made by NV’s attorney, it seems NV acknowledges that something happened while the babies were in her care. Unless LK was previously injured by someone else, and the fall was real and exacerbated the injury. So much yet to learn about this case. I was surprised by the DP intention by the DA.

Shrager said all the facts in the case have yet to come out.

"There is a general misunderstanding of what transpired in the public. And we ask that people wait until they've heard all the facts to resolve their thoughts on this matter. And the facts will come out at the appropriate time at the appropriate venue. We asked that people refrain from judging," Shrager said.

California woman accused of killing friend's newborn in Pittsburgh makes court appearance

A woman facing several charges, including homicide in the death of a baby in Pittsburgh, made an appearance in court.

www.cbsnews.com

It makes sense, I just wish we knew what those facts are now. Of course it takes time to reveal everything, it’s just difficult to discuss this case with so much information missing.

 

[IDK]

I appreciate all the different perspectives. I keep wondering if it was is a sudden psychotic episode or onset of schizophrenia. She’s in the right age range.

 

[iamshadow21]

I appreciate all the different perspectives. I keep wondering if it was is a sudden psychotic episode or onset of schizophrenia. She’s in the right age range.

People who are violent because of an episode of mental illness don't generally make up a cover story.

They'd tell you bluntly that the baby was a demon interfering with their thoughts (for example), not that it was an accident with the bouncer.

MOO

 

[SMK777]

I appreciate all the different perspectives. I keep wondering if it was is a sudden psychotic episode or onset of schizophrenia. She’s in the right age range.

Yes, I had wondered also if she had a psychotic break or some kind of schizoid episode. Because what she did if guilty could only destroy her life forever so logically there was no reasonable motive.

 

[SMK777]

People who are violent because of an episode of mental illness don't generally make up a cover story.

They'd tell you bluntly that the baby was a demon interfering with their thoughts (for example), not that it was an accident with the bouncer.

MOO

I guess what I was thinking is some kind of episode where she was psychotic enough to want to do harm, but still able to cover up. Maybe clinically that makes no sense, though.

 

[iamshadow21]

I guess what I was thinking is some kind of episode where she was psychotic enough to want to do harm, but still able to cover up. Maybe clinically that makes no sense, though.

In a court of law, the definition for insanity is a low bar. Did the person know what they did was wrong at the time? Covering up says yes, they knew.

With both babies, she covered up. She said the injured twin scratched his own face when she put him in his carseat, and she said that the deceased twin somehow flipped himself out of his own bouncer, despite being too young by a good two or three months to even roll over on a rug under his own steam.

She set herself up to 'discover' both injuries, too. She 'discovered' the injured twin's genital injuries, and 'discovered' the deceased twin on the floor with a head injury. How often do we see murderers on here arrange things to 'discover' their victims, sometimes with a witness along side for their 'discovery' to bolster their account? Call me jaded and cynical, but it is so old hat, I eyeroll whenever I see it come up.

MOO

 

[SMK777]

In a court of law, the definition for insanity is a low bar. Did the person know what they did was wrong at the time? Covering up says yes, they knew.

With both babies, she covered up. She said the injured twin scratched his own face when she put him in his carseat, and she said that the deceased twin somehow flipped himself out of his own bouncer, despite being too young by a good two or three months to even roll over on a rug under his own steam.

She set herself up to 'discover' both injuries, too. She 'discovered' the injured twin's genital injuries, and 'discovered' the deceased twin on the floor with a head injury. How often do we see murderers on here arrange things to 'discover' their victims, sometimes with a witness along side for their 'discovery' to bolster their account? Call me jaded and cynical, but it is so old hat, I eyeroll whenever I see it come up.

MOO

Good points, well taken.

 

[IDK]

In a court of law, the definition for insanity is a low bar. Did the person know what they did was wrong at the time? Covering up says yes, they knew.

With both babies, she covered up. She said the injured twin scratched his own face when she put him in his carseat, and she said that the deceased twin somehow flipped himself out of his own bouncer, despite being too young by a good two or three months to even roll over on a rug under his own steam.

She set herself up to 'discover' both injuries, too. She 'discovered' the injured twin's genital injuries, and 'discovered' the deceased twin on the floor with a head injury. How often do we see murderers on here arrange things to 'discover' their victims, sometimes with a witness along side for their 'discovery' to bolster their account? Call me jaded and cynical, but it is so old hat, I eyeroll whenever I see it come up.

MOO

I just feel like we are missing whole chunks of the story other than a few carefully released snippets. Will be interesting to follow. IMO.