GUILTY Pa - One Adult, 20 Students Stabbed At Murrysville High School, 9 April 2014

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threecrazykids said:
One thing I don't understand is why these retributions or acts of revenge are not against individuals but are seemingly going towards the masses.



Why are we seeing a shift from the violent outbreaks being directed at those who "caused" the child pain, but instead just a sweeping act of rage against anyone and everyone in a specific setting?



I guess when I was younger if someone picked on someone relentlessly what would happen is that kid would FINALLY have enough and end up beating the snot out of the kid who wouldn't leave him/her the hell alone.



Now...now they don't handle it that way. They bring guns/knives to school and open fire on innocent people in an effort to let the world know "just how bad it must have been".
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There has been a real shift in the mentality that children are supposed to tell, not defend themselves. What happens in reality is... They tell, nothing changes and then the child is bullied even more and now has a target on his back.

I've personally seen teachers encourage it or do the bullying themselves.

I don't agree with that. Mine had permission to defend himself, regardless of the schools policy. I told him, I didn't care if he got into trouble at school for it. He had a right and obligation to protect and defend himself. I'd have his back. I've also taught him he has a right to be treated respectfully and he had the right to tell adults, peers etc. "no" if he felt the situation warranted it.
And if anyone had a problem with that, to call me.

How many children feel unheard? That no one has their back?
I would say, far too many!





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Linda7NJ said:
There has been a real shift in the mentality that children are supposed to tell, not defend themselves. What happens in reality is... They tell, nothing changes and then the child is bullied even more and now has a target on his back.

I've personally seen teachers encourage it or do the bullying themselves.

I don't agree with that. Mine had permission to defend himself, regardless of the schools policy. I told him, I didn't care if he got into trouble at school for it. He had a right and obligation to protect and defend himself. I'd have his back. I've also taught him he has a right to be treated respectfully and he had the right to tell adults, peers etc. "no" if he felt the situation warranted it.
And if anyone had a problem with that, to call me.

How many children feel unheard? That no one has their back?
I would say, far too many!





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I agree. My kids school (surprisingly) handled the one and only situation my son had very well. My son was not the kind of kid who was picked on...he was just a quiet kid. The teachers loved him because he is super funny, good kid...just not in the "popular" group of kids...by choice. :floorlaugh:

This kid who was known for just being an *advertiser censored* (and not popular either) thought he was being funny, and kept snapping my son on the back of the arm with a rubber band and poking him with a pencil.
My son told him to knock it off twice (quietly, but loud enough for the kids around him to hear it). The kid did it one more time and my son stood up and yelled "KNOCK IT OFF" and punched the kid.
When the school called me I was freaking out wondering what the heck happened and the principal told me to just come to the school and we would discuss.
When I got there the principal was NOT mad at all at my son. He said he had spoke to the kids who were sitting right next to them and all of them said he'd told him at least twice to knock it off and he kept it up. The teacher said she's moved that kid all around the room because of this crap.
He did end up having to do 2 days in school suspension because it's the "rules" for fighting but he literally told my son as we were walking out - "Do not punish him for this at home...he did what I would expect any respectable young man to do in a situation like that, sometimes kids like that (meaning the other kid) just have to learn the old fashioned way".

The other kids parents (who we are friends with BTW) called and said how sorry they were and that their kid absolutely deserved what he got.

I'm not condoning violence or tooting my kids horn for crackin' that kid...but I'd rather have a situation like that happen than to have kids coming armed to schools and taking out entire classrooms of innocent people.

:(
 
threecrazykids said:
I agree. My kids school (surprisingly) handled the one and only situation my son had very well. My son was not the kind of kid who was picked on...he was just a quiet kid. The teachers loved him because he is super funny, good kid...just not in the "popular" group of kids...by choice. :floorlaugh:



This kid who was known for just being an *advertiser censored* (and not popular either) thought he was being funny, and kept snapping my son on the back of the arm with a rubber band and poking him with a pencil.

My son told him to knock it off twice (quietly, but loud enough for the kids around him to hear it). The kid did it one more time and my son stood up and yelled "KNOCK IT OFF" and punched the kid.

When the school called me I was freaking out wondering what the heck happened and the principal told me to just come to the school and we would discuss.

When I got there the principal was NOT mad at all at my son. He said he had spoke to the kids who were sitting right next to them and all of them said he'd told him at least twice to knock it off and he kept it up. The teacher said she's moved that kid all around the room because of this crap.

He did end up having to do 2 days in school suspension because it's the "rules" for fighting but he literally told my son as we were walking out - "Do not punish him for this at home...he did what I would expect any respectable young man to do in a situation like that, sometimes kids like that (meaning the other kid) just have to learn the old fashioned way".



The other kids parents (who we are friends with BTW) called and said how sorry they were and that their kid absolutely deserved what he got.



I'm not condoning violence or tooting my kids horn for crackin' that kid...but I'd rather have a situation like that happen than to have kids coming armed to schools and taking out entire classrooms of innocent people.



:(
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Yep, we had two similar incidents. Like yours, mine always issued a warning others heard.
The first time, I had to pick him up and simply take him home for the day. I was instructed by the principle to "give him a good talking to" ....as we were leaving, I put my arm around my son and said, "let's go get some ice cream!" Making it abundantly clear I was proud of him. That was in first grade.

The second time he was suspended for three days. That was the mandatory zero tolerance punishment for simply defending yourself. The punishment was the same for the student that had been bullying most of the other boys for the whole year. That was known. It was at a new private school.

That principle actually apologized explaining how her hands were tied. We shared a private laugh where she stated the kid got what he deserved.


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Eight of 21 students hurt in a mass stabbing at Franklin Regional High School Wednesday remain in hospitals Friday morning. The student who was hurt the most is on life support at UPMC Presbyterian Hospital. ... has already undergone two surgeries, and his physicians said he will likely have to go through a few more and a physical therapy regime to recover.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/8-franklin-regional-stabbing-victims-remain-hospit/nfXws/

Thomassey said he has also hired a psychiatrist to evaluate his client. “He’s upset. He knows he’s in a world of stuff right now, and how serious it is now. You know he can’t believe he did this to tell you the truth,” said Thomassey.
 
I've taught my kids to stand up for themselves. Screw the zero tolerance. A good punch is worth the detention! And our principal also was not angry...just said the rules were the rules.
 
Sassygerl said:
I've taught my kids to stand up for themselves. Screw the zero tolerance. A good punch is worth the detention! And our principal also was not angry...just said the rules were the rules.
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The opposite happened to my daughter. The "popular" girl was bullying her on social media. My daughter got up from class one day and punched her from behind. My daughter got 2 weeks suspension and the girls' parents pressed charges. No one would listen to me or my daughters' side of the story as to why she threw the first punch. All they saw is that she punched someone first. My daughter had to go to court and was assigned 30 hours community service. I'm so sick of this bullying!
 
A prosecutor had said that when Hribal was apprehended, he suggested he wanted to die.

The chief says the boy said "he wanted someone to kill him."
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http://www.kwtx.com/news/national/h...ecific-Target-In-School-Attack-254904851.html

Chief Thomas Seefeld said the motive on the attack at Franklin Regional High School is still unknown and reconstructing what happened has been difficult since suspect Alex Hribal has not been speaking to police, at the advice of his lawyer. Also, many victims are still in recovery.
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http://www.wrex.com/story/25224114/2014/04/11/police-say-no-known-target-in-pa-high-school-stabbing
 
JerseyGirl said:
The opposite happened to my daughter. The "popular" girl was bullying her on social media. My daughter got up from class one day and punched her from behind. My daughter got 2 weeks suspension and the girls' parents pressed charges. No one would listen to me or my daughters' side of the story as to why she threw the first punch. All they saw is that she punched someone first. My daughter had to go to court and was assigned 30 hours community service. I'm so sick of this bullying!
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I'm sorry this happened...but let's look at this closely, what really matters in the end? I'd say those charges were well worth the lesson it taught your daughter. To stand up for herself, and that she wasn't one to stand around and take bullying. Good for her! I'm sure she felt way more empowered - to not tolerate it to the point of punching someone...but may do something sooner and not be afraid to do so.

I'm sure your daughter is also known as someone not to mess with either. Our kids HAVE to defend themselves if no one is going to do anything about it when they are made aware. Zero tolerance is a bunch of crap. It is an excuse to show that they "did something" by suspending the kids, BUT...what did they really DO to fix the root of the problem? Was the girl even addressed for HER role in it? Likely not - other than "stop what you're doing or there will be consequences" and probably never looked at again...she'll just get better at doing it more sneakily next time.
 
threecrazykids said:
I'm sorry this happened...but let's look at this closely, what really matters in the end? I'd say those charges were well worth the lesson it taught your daughter. To stand up for herself, and that she wasn't one to stand around and take bullying. Good for her! I'm sure she felt way more empowered - to not tolerate it to the point of punching someone...but may do something sooner and not be afraid to do so.

I'm sure your daughter is also known as someone not to mess with either. Our kids HAVE to defend themselves if no one is going to do anything about it when they are made aware. Zero tolerance is a bunch of crap. It is an excuse to show that they "did something" by suspending the kids, BUT...what did they really DO to fix the root of the problem? Was the girl even addressed for HER role in it? Likely not - other than "stop what you're doing or there will be consequences" and probably never looked at again...she'll just get better at doing it more sneakily next time.
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This wasn't the first time she has been bullied. She has a birth defect and it's noticeable, she had never been bullied about it until she reached high school. We've lived in the district since she was born, she grew up with these kids.

Ever since this incident, I told her from now on if they call you down again to investigate other bullying or want to discuss ANYTHING with you, you are to tell them you won't speak to them until you have a parent or attorney there. The problem is that they interviewed friends of the girl who of course backed up their best friend. They didn't call down anyone in my daughter's defense. Luckily, she hasn't had any trouble this year and next year (her senior year) she's planning on dual enrollment with the community college, so that will get her out of the high school 1/2 day. She hates it there now, begs me to move her out.

Sorry, didn't mean to go on and on about my own families' bullying accounts, this incident in PA just got me upset all over again.
 
faw720 said:
IMO, excellent question! I have some theories of my own, but I'm not going to express them again because they offended some. I certainly am no expert, but surely it is time for someone to organize a "think tank" of highly qualified individuals to try & uncover the cause/causes for the violence in our society.

The first instance of mass murder that I can remember occurred in 1966 when Charles Whitman killed 16 people & injured many more.

Charles Whitman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia_

So many terrible things happened in the 1960s & we have continued to go downhill from there.

This post is JMO
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BBM

1927:
http://www.biography.com/people/andrew-kehoe-235986#awesm=~oB8VGcb1QC9c0A

IMO, mass murders have happened for as long as humans have been around.
 
The attorney for Alex Hribal said that it looks like some kind of "bullying event" may have played a role.

FBI official, familiar with the investigation, discounted bullying as a motive. "He was disaffected but not bullied," the official said on condition of anonymity.

Some classmates at the school describe Hribal as having few friends and being quiet but also as a "really nice kid," a description that contradicts the image of a knife-wielding teen offered by authorities.

"We're going to try to figure out what happened here. Obviously, there's a problem. You just don't leave and go to school, and do what he did," his attorney said.

http://kagstv.com/News/KAGSNews/ID/...ol-Stabbing-Authorities-and-Community-Ask-Why

_____


One student said:

“I cannot pin the fault of this on anyone, because I do not know the perpetrator or the situations he may or may not have experienced at Franklin,” Liu wrote. “All I can say is this: We should speak a little softer, judge a little less, and open our arms to everyone, as we should have done even before.”

http://www.latimes.com/nation/natio...victims-20140411,0,860638.story#ixzz2ybQFpl20
 
AnaTeresa said:
Yes, exactly. The first school shooting in the US was in the 1760s.



List of school shootings in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Some of those are crazy, aren't they? And most sound very similar to events that happen today. I was especially struck by the "Jesse James gangs" one, where apparently, having heard of his exploits out west, boys in the east were imitating him. Jesse was apparently the one man equivalent of grand Theft Auto or CoD in his day?


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JerseyGirl said:
The opposite happened to my daughter. The "popular" girl was bullying her on social media. My daughter got up from class one day and punched her from behind. My daughter got 2 weeks suspension and the girls' parents pressed charges. No one would listen to me or my daughters' side of the story as to why she threw the first punch. All they saw is that she punched someone first. My daughter had to go to court and was assigned 30 hours community service. I'm so sick of this bullying!
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Did you print out all the bullying on social media? The bullying being taken to the net terrifies me for kids. It's awful!!! Screen cap and print!!!! I'm so sorry that happened but the girl deserved to be punched!
 
Sassygerl said:
Did you print out all the bullying on social media? The bullying being taken to the net terrifies me for kids. It's awful!!! Screen cap and print!!!! I'm so sorry that happened but the girl deserved to be punched!
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Yes we did all that. No one would hear or understand anything, all they saw was a victim who got punched from behind and didn't see it coming. The Judge and the Police investigating only asked her one question, Did you hit her?

The school wouldn't even give us a copy of the investigation, I'm sure if I pressed my lawyer with $$$$$ we might have been able to obtain a copy, but at this point it was already costing us close to $1k just so neither one of us (my husband and I) wouldn't be jailed. Oh, on top of community service, she also had to go to an anger-management class, with kids from other districts who were totally out of control.
 
passionflower said:
I am in the burbs here and funny never heard of or seen this attorney before
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Mr. Thomassey would probably be disappointed to hear that. He does not have constant ads on the TV like Edgar Snyder. He's the one you see making a statement to a reporter on the steps of the courthouse after his handcuffed, head-down client has just been escorted in by four burly sheriff's deputies.

He's been a well known criminal defense attorney in Pittsburgh for many, many years.
 
I am so glad I just barely escaped the influx of social media and online bullying in schools. I was bullied at times (even for being new to the school and having too many headaches! Kids will use ANYTHING) but at least it was contained on school grounds, tangible and traceable, beyond being lured into mean AOL chat rooms..

My step-niece is the lovely age of 13 right now and going through some very bad bullying. She's lashing out in response. She won't seek companionship with other girls because they must all be "b*tchy cheerleaders." She disagrees that they're just as insecure as she is. We all got together to think of advice for her, and what she found to be most effective was accusing her tormentors of trying too hard and caring too much. Ice cold accusation, apparently. (Not to victim blame those who don't confront bullies, or unsuccessfully confront bullies)
 
Yesterday my husband had chemo at Hillman's and everyone had the news on and was talking about the injuries. Nurses explained a few things to us. Today I had to take my mom to UPMC specialist and low and behold the docs had a special conference and so many experts were there including mom's doc and his PA. The PA happened to see the critically ill student and this doc was a consult........small world and now I feel worse because her first opinion was he wasn't going to make it. Thank goodness he is young and a fighter........praying he can over come all injuries and memories and pain!
 
passionflower said:
Yesterday my husband had chemo at Hillman's and everyone had the news on and was talking about the injuries. Nurses explained a few things to us. Today I had to take my mom to UPMC specialist and low and behold the docs had a special conference and so many experts were there including mom's doc and his PA. The PA happened to see the critically ill student and this doc was a consult........small world and now I feel worse because her first opinion was he wasn't going to make it. Thank goodness he is young and a fighter........praying he can over come all injuries and memories and pain!
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Totally agree! We all need to pray for the victims!! They couldn't possibly have done anything to deserve what happened to them. JMO
 
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