Found Deceased PA - Paul Kochu, 22, Allegheny County, 17 Dec 2014 - #2

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I think there is really no need for anyone to knock anyone else for having an opinion about what happened to Paul. No one at this point knows, or at least has reveled, what happened that night. So by looking at the facts there are a few conclusions that can be made 1. Murder 2. Suicide. 3. Accident. Can anyone really prove or disprove any of those? If so please share the facts. Maybe you don't agree with one of those conclusions but it doesn't mean it is incorrect. Until all the facts, if ever, come out it is all speculation - not truth.
 
halaliphone said:
Frankly, you can all discuss whatever you like. However, since none of you knew Paul, it is alot of speculation. As far as not understanding the nature of depression and loss, or not losing a family member to suicide, I think that maybe you underestimate our family, about which you also know nothing. I have always believed, as do several other of my family members, that there is another fact pattern to Paul's loss and ultimate death. And we may never know that. If you know the stages of grief, you will understand where Paul's immediate family is now. It's been a long three months and then some. God knows, we want answers far more than you do. And the pain of never knowing whether any will arrive is palpable. Let them have their snarky comments and their theories. They earned them.......by heart.
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Thank Halaliphone! You and all of Paul's family are in my thoughts and prayers and I hope that you will someday have peace and the answers you need and deserve. Paul seemed to be such a light in his family and friends lives and I am sure it will take a long time to be able to get past his loss. In a time of grief and sorrow I think they are allowed to think and deal with their loss anyway they see fit. Sending good vibes and prayers to the Kochu family.
 
Thank you. Please keep Paul's parents in your thoughts. No parent ever wants to bury a child, much less bury a child and not even understand what happened to him. Did he know? Was he aware? Did it hurt? Did he call his mother's name? I suffered a terrible loss once that I witnessed. At least I have the comfort of knowing about those last few precious minutes. Ellen and Jack were denied that comfort, small comfort that it was.
 
I firmly believe that when people mention suicide on this forum, it is only out of concern. Many of us understand it is a leading killer, especially in young men. Many of us know and understand the stigma that is attached to the word "suicide", and the shame associated with it. And many of us KNOW that the ONLY way to stop deaths in this manner is to talk about depression, as well as its causes and treatments.

Many of us have experienced the devastating effects suicide has first hand. My own family denied its existence for years and refused to admit what happened, even to those who had experienced the same thing.

No one here means any harm in talking about the possibility of suicide. We only hope to stop it from taking any more lives!
 
Has anyone read the latest posts on FB? It seems that there's some speculation about "proof" or something that he didn't go into the water of his own free will. Wondering if anyone knows what it's about?
 
Me too. This family feels that Paul did not suicide, and they are upset at the mere mention of it. I do understand this. To accept suicide is to admit that a person so close to you could have such a dark secret that is kept hidden away -- and that in the end, no matter how much you love someone, you are powerless to save them. It is a devastating realization that can take a year or a lifetime to come to terms with.

That being said, there has been a real lack of clarity around the events that night, and the video of Paul walking alone in the frigid early morning hours is haunting, to say the least. I hope that if further investigation is warranted they are able get answers that can give them some measure of peace. I feel for the family's pain, which is raw and deep.
 
I understand their pain but hope it does not lead to false accusations. We saw that in another case. Jmo
 
I for one am still confused by the original reported timeline & statements and the more recent one. I don't want to make accusations or speculate about anyone that LE hasn't named as a suspect, but it just doesn't make sense. I know many times witnesses often mix up times & recollection of events are fuzzy...and add to it that the media is not great at reporting 'facts' so it's difficult to speculate on what might have happened. Only LE has the details for their investigations. But I believe it was originally reported that Paul left the bar alone, cut his hand, called his friends and then they left to get food...then the surveillance video comes out of him walking down the street - the time stamp I think was earlier than when friends say they last saw him (again, I concede that times can get mixed up)...and now, it seems the story has changed to everyone leaving the bar together. Not sure what to believe or even if stories are changing or if the media just mixed it up from the start...

I hope the family gets answers soon and if anyone harmed Paul, that justice is swift and severe.
 
I have been wanting to say something for a long time, <modsnip> According to forensic experts on drowning, it is EXTREMELY rare for a body to be found very far from where it went into the water. So if <modsnip> Paul jumped into the Mon on the Southside, why did he not surface there, close to where he went in, a few weeks later, which according to experts is about how long it would take to surface after drowning in cold water. HOW THEN did Paul end up 84 miles from where he was last seen? IF as you all think he self inflicted the injury on his hand, did he not FINISH THE JOB AT HIS HOUSE?????? Why would he go out into the cold (which he HATED BY THE WAY) to launch himself into the river. He would have easily finished the job in the house if in fact that was his intention. <modsnip> you have no idea what our experience has been with LE throughout this whole ongoing horrible situation. ALSO... <modsnip> just because there is water in someone's lungs doesn't mean they necessarily drowned. Eventually, a body that has been submerged in water for an extended period of time will have water in their lungs even if they were dead when they went into the water. <modsnip> To all of you who have been supportive of Paul and supportive of a true mystery being unearthed I thank you. To those who haven't, I thank you too. YOu have made me stronger and showed me who I NEVER want to be.
 
I'm so sorry for your loss, and also for any insult. I think sometimes we spend too much time analyzing and don't think enough about what we say, or how much it can hurt. I don't think anything said was meant to hurt. I'm sorry that it did...
 
The feelings & speculations of the family matter & we are reminded to be respectful.

My prayers are with them at this tragic time.

Moo
 
silverkitty said:
Me too. This family feels that Paul did not suicide, and they are upset at the mere mention of it. I do understand this. To accept suicide is to admit that a person so close to you could have such a dark secret that is kept hidden away -- and that in the end, no matter how much you love someone, you are powerless to save them. It is a devastating realization that can take a year or a lifetime to come to terms with.

That being said, there has been a real lack of clarity around the events that night, and the video of Paul walking alone in the frigid early morning hours is haunting, to say the least. I hope that if further investigation is warranted they are able get answers that can give them some measure of peace. I feel for the family's pain, which is raw and deep.
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BBM: Just jumping off your post. What you say here is not the only reason a person would be upset that people keep saying suicide. There are many reasons, not the least of which is that if LE jumps on the suicide bandwagon and it really WASN'T suicide, the real cause of death might never be known. It would be possible that a killer would go free. That would upset any family member or friend. I'm not sure why it is often felt that when family of a deceased loved one says "NOT suicide!", other people's thoughts only seem to go to thinking the family doesn't want to admit that their loved on was depressed enough to kill themselves, when there are many other reasons why the family would say "NOT suicide." (No disrespect meant to you, silverkitty)
 
Imo, LE does not like to say suicide either, as it generally creates the most resistance from survivors. Not sure why it seems that murder is "preferable", in a way, to some. As much as I would hate to think a loved one was suffering that badly to choose to end their life, at least that would be their choice, as opposed to being murdered.

I have no idea what happened to Paul, obviously, though I do not believe he was murdered at this time, based on what little we know. I am wary of the dangers of being accusatory, though, if actual evidence of foul play does not exist. I hope there are some real answers eventually...but sometimes the determination will not be satisfactory to all. Jmo
 
Andre Gray, from Lawrenceville, Pa. was murdered and placed in the river in Arnold, Pa. Arnold and Lawrenceville are close and a little north of Pittsburgh. As you all know, Andre Gray's body was found in West Virginia. Therefore, rare or not, this body traveled all those miles. The details so far on that case are that two people were involved in putting Gray in the water. He wouldn't sink, so they shot holes in him. It's no small job to hoist a body in the water, especially a 6' tall 180 pound one.
 
cutter99 said:
I firmly believe that when people mention suicide on this forum, it is only out of concern. Many of us understand it is a leading killer, especially in young men. Many of us know and understand the stigma that is attached to the word "suicide", and the shame associated with it. And many of us KNOW that the ONLY way to stop deaths in this manner is to talk about depression, as well as its causes and treatments.

Many of us have experienced the devastating effects suicide has first hand. My own family denied its existence for years and refused to admit what happened, even to those who had experienced the same thing.

No one here means any harm in talking about the possibility of suicide. We only hope to stop it from taking any more lives!
Click to expand...

I agree. I also think that people who have someone very close to them commit suicide, they feel guilty for not knowing the person was suffering. I worked very closely on a day to day basis with a younger guy, also a nurse as I am. I was very close to his best friend and family for years. One afternoon, he left his shift as normal, said bye as normal, went home and killed himself. Everyone was beyond shocked. Never once had any of us at work or home ever thought he was even depressed or struggling. There was so much speculation so many rumors that some how it had all been a set up of some kind, that he must have been murdered (although it was clear it had been suicide). So many people felt so upset, guilty and sad for him that he had to have been hurting, suffering so much in silence afraid to tell anyone. His best friend to this day, and its been nearly 4 years, still has a hard time excepting that he was depressed enough, or felt there was nothing worth living for, and yet he never felt like he could share his burden with him. He as the rest of us, often wonder how we could see him daily, laugh and joke with him, watch him care for patients so compassionately, yet take his own life leaving so many hurt and confused. I understand the pain and confusion. I dont understand how anyone can say it WAS NOT SUICIDE unless there is something to prove that to be true.
 
The death certificate is likely pending tox & official COD, no? The COD has to be listed on the death certificate, doesnt it?
 
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