Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[RaspberryMama]

One other thing in PA, back then, is that the father must sign the birth certificate. So if he’s listed he had to have signed it.

This is really good to know. Do you have a link confirming that's how it was in PA at that time?

 

[Friday Fan]

The three responsive results were THREE birth certificates. (No death certificates for the 2 other living children, no adoption records) -- of course those records could be in OTHER states. IF he was "adopted", it was likely unofficial and possibly to a family member
MOO based on the press conference

Thank you for the explanation!

 

[Friday Fan]

I believe the woman in the hat shop said the man who purchased the hat had blonde hair

 

[LeBlack]

Again, without any kind of speculation - why is there so much emphasis being placed on the death certificates of children who could (potentially) be his siblings? They likely wouldn't contain any information of use in identifying him.

Why not instead look for census records that match other records? If he was born in a hospital, was residing in a house that reported for the census, was informally adopted by another family (which is what was in "M" or "Martha's" testimony), or formerly adopted, the chance of his being located in a census record is fairly high.

What census record? He lived 1953-1957, the last Federal census publicly available is 1950 - by the next census record in 1960, both parents had likely moved on. MOO

 

[RaspberryMama]

Reporter - Is there any evidence or a theory (inaudible)?.

Captain - I mean, the theory would be common sense, was far away from their house, at that point in time, that area of Fox Chase was pretty rural.

This is from the transcript of the PC earlier today. Can someone help me understand what the captain's common sense theory might be? Maybe it's just been a long day but I'm not getting what he's saying, lol.

The reporter asked if they had any theories about who murdered Joseph, and the response about it being far away from the original home... ??? Is he saying it's common sense that neither parent had anything to do with his death because he was found so far away? Another point in favor of the adoption angle?

 

[glorias]

There are a ton of Zarellis in the PA area, though. A number of them can be considered "prominent."

 

[LeBlack]

Probably going to write this wrong, so I apologize. If the identified father had brothers, it's possible one of them could have been his biological father instead, no matter what the birth certificate says. I don't think they're disputing a familial relationship, only that their father is his father. That's how I interpreted it.

For example, in the Allenstown NH case, they narrowed down the possible father of Denise's daughter, Dawn, to a family of brothers. IIRC, all were married at the time she was conceived, and all the brothers deny it, but, based on DNA, one of them did.

Then there is a news reporter whose mother was given up for adoption. So, he went searching for his biological maternal grandmother (I think he found the grandfather). It came down to four daughters, all who had passed by then, and no one still alive knew which daughter had a baby and gave it up for adoption. He never found out who she was, only that she was one of four.

In the NH case, it would be easy enough to compare to siblings to find which brother fathered her.

The news reporter could find his mother in much the same way, by process of elimination from potential siblings/vs cousins.

 

[breachtones]

This is from the transcript of the PC earlier today. Can someone help me understand what the captain's common sense theory might be? Maybe it's just been a long day but I'm not getting what he's saying, lol.

The reporter asked if they had any theories about who murdered Joseph, and the response about it being far away from the original home... ??? Is he saying it's common sense that neither parent had anything to do with his death because he was found so far away? Another point in favor of the adoption angle?

"Is there any evidence or theories on why they (moved from? idk) West Philly, was taken all the way out to Fox Chase?"
"Is there a theory"
"Evidence or theories."
"I mean the theory would be common sense, yknow to.. as far away from their house. At that point in time, that area of Fox Chase was pretty rural."

 

[louellen]

Something that stuck out to me from the press conference is that they made a point of describing how they identified the biological father -- which suggests to me that the father was NOT married to the mother at the time of the birth, or still in her orbit, though he was listed on the birth certificate. They did not say something like "a couple" or something of that ilk. They also were careful to mention "a number of siblings on both sides" - which makes me think that this child was not born into a married couple who later raised children together, especially since they had genealogical interactions separately with the relatives whose DNA identified the parents. They did state the name on the birth certificate for the father was confirmed with DNA -- so I believe Zarelli is the accurate last name for the father.

I think it is likely that Joseph was born "out of wedlock" (dislike the phrase but it's descriptive) and adopted, likely at birth. We may never know the mother's identity unless the birth certificate/info is released by the police. It may also be why no one came forward to acknowledge him at age 4 (the birth mother may have been ashamed to even consider it could have been her child, who she may not have seen since the bed at birth, if it occurred to her; similarly for the birth father, if he even knew of his existence).

Something else worth mentioning, as someone who has lived in Philly -- It seems silly but especially in the 1950s, Fox Chase to West Philly is a pretty wide gap in terms of location, community, and geographic setting...West Philly at this point in time was definitely urban living and heavily immigrant (especially Italian heritage). Think row homes, working-class, Italian speaking, heavy Catholic influence. This part of Fox Chase was suburban/wooded, more "Wasp," and not particularly immigrant, though had some Irish heritage influence. Culturally it would have been a world away in some senses. The one connection would have been the presence of the Catholic church. This especially makes me lean towards adoption or some other reason for Joseph to be found in this area. Though anything is possible, I have a hard time thinking/believing someone from their West Philly neighborhood would have made it all the way across and north of the city to dump this child.

Something else about this location that keeps staying top of mind for me...the Sisters of Good Shepherd ran a Catholic convent and "Home for Wayward Girls" in Fox Chase where unmarried women and girls who were pregnant came to live and give birth. (Sidenote: often these homes forcibly coerced women into placing their children up for adoption; I do not know about this particular location, though I know this "Home" was part of a "Delinquency Project"). This home was operating during the time of Joseph's birth AND death. I can't help but wonder, given how close this location was to where his body was found, if there's some sort of tie. Though, that said, I have to hope the Sisters would have checked their adoption records for a child in the eligible age range...though, sadly, maybe they had too many records to consider? It would also explain why/if there were no records from a hospital birth, but there was a birth certificate, or why the police did not specify where Joseph was born-- these women/girls gave birth usually AT the home, I believe.

 

[louellen]

just to add: I am not suggesting in any way that the Sisters of Good Shepherd had any involvement in Joseph's death, just that the location does not seem totally coincidental to me....

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

The following ADMIN NOTE was posted earlier today in this thread and for some reason some members are choosing to ignore it.

"Police said during a Thursday morning press conference that they will not be identifying the boy's parents at this time out of respect for Zarelli's siblings, some of whom are still alive."

What's not clear about the above?

Why are some members disregarding what LE has said and decide it's okay to flat-out name people and sleuth families with a view to identifying the parents, etc ?? This is disrespectful to LE, to the family, and to Websleuths to totally disregard LE's position in this matter.

You can do all the sleuthing you want behind the scenes and in private messaging, but until such time as LE has released more information, do NOT splash the names of innocent people and their families all across this forum.

Post respectfully and responsibly or you won't be allowed to post in this discussion, or you may experience a temporary or permanent loss of posting privileges.

 

[Sillybilly]

Thread is closed.

Check back later or in the morning.

 

[Knitty]

Thread is open. Please review Sillybilly's post ^right up there^ and continue the discussion.

 

[RaspberryMama]

Dear Mods, thank you for your work. I apologize for contributing to the number of posts you had to delete / clean up. You guys are awesome!

 

[RaspberryMama]

"Is there any evidence or theories on why they (moved from? idk) West Philly, was taken all the way out to Fox Chase?"
"Is there a theory"
"Evidence or theories."
"I mean the theory would be common sense, yknow to.. as far away from their house. At that point in time, that area of Fox Chase was pretty rural."

Hm. So, what I'm understanding is he (the captain) is saying the boy was moved to a rural area because it was a rural area, lol. I mean, yeah, that's not hard to understand. I guess I was wondering if he was implying that the home Joseph was born into was the same place from which he was brought to Fox Chase.

Looking for clues as to whether he was adopted or not, but I don't think I'll find them in that comment after all.

I do tend to think he was given up for adoption - whether legally or on the low down - and I think his birth mother had every expectation that he would go to a happy and loving couple who would care very much for him. MOO.

 

[IDK]

Baby Boy got his NAME back. Joseph Augustus

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Something else worth mentioning, as someone who has lived in Philly -- It seems silly but especially in the 1950s, Fox Chase to West Philly is a pretty wide gap in terms of location, community, and geographic setting...West Philly at this point in time was definitely urban living and heavily immigrant (especially Italian heritage). Think row homes, working-class, Italian speaking, heavy Catholic influence. This part of Fox Chase was suburban/wooded, more "Wasp," and not particularly immigrant, though had some Irish heritage influence. Culturally it would have been a world away in some senses. The one connection would have been the presence of the Catholic church. This especially makes me lean towards adoption or some other reason for Joseph to be found in this area. Though anything is possible, I have a hard time thinking/believing someone from their West Philly neighborhood would have made it all the way across and north of the city to dump this child.

Snipped only for brevity. This post in total is one of the finest descriptions of Philadelphia at the time that I have read. I will add that there was not just a Catholic/Protestant split, but an Irish/Italian split. Circa 1940, the area above Girard Avenue was considered "bad" because it was, at the time, predominantly Italian.

The parish that served the neighborhood where the family was from was St. Donato. The reason that this saint was chosen in because many of the residents came from San Donato Val Comino, Italy. BTW: The records are now at Our Lady of Lourdes, on 63rd Street.

 

[loveplace]

Snipped only for brevity. This post in total is one of the finest descriptions of Philadelphia at the time that I have read. I will add that there was not just a Catholic/Protestant split, but an Irish/Italian split. Circa 1940, the area above Girard Avenue was considered "bad" because it was, at the time, predominantly Italian.

The parish that served the neighborhood where the family was from was St. Donato. The reason that this saint was chosen in because many of the residents came from San Donato Val Comino, Italy. BTW: The records are now at Our Lady of Lourdes, on 63rd Street.

Thank you. I find this kind of socio historic info really helpful when creating a picture of cases like this one in my mind.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

His scars are not extensive

Right. The scar in his groin sounds like an inguinal hernia repair.

 

[IDK]

Hm. So, what I'm understanding is he (the captain) is saying the boy was moved to a rural area because it was a rural area, lol. I mean, yeah, that's not hard to understand. I guess I was wondering if he was implying that the home Joseph was born into was the same place from which he was brought to Fox Chase.

Looking for clues as to whether he was adopted or not, but I don't think I'll find them in that comment after all.

I do tend to think he was given up for adoption - whether legally or on the low down - and I think his birth mother had every expectation that he would go to a happy and loving couple who would care very much for him. MOO.

I interpreted his comment to mean that JAZ was left in Fox Chase to throw suspicion into that area, and away from West Philadelphia. I figured that’s why LE sounded annoyed— it’s only common sense to leave a murder victim as far from the perpetrators location as possible. There was no hidden meaning there, IMO.