Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[IDK]

You all are AMAZING

 

[txsleuth70]

I feel this is important to add:

If JAZ was actually adopted by someone other that his birth parents at the time of his death, LE should not have released his bio name and parents.

They should have released his name as Joseph A "Adoptive last name" with the statement that he "was an adopted child & the birth parents have been identified through DNA but are not being released."

Thereby protecting Z family and bio-mother family. But, it's like identifying the actual birth parents can also serve as a "look what this technology can do". Which I'm all for because buried family secrets help no one.

 

[txsleuth70]

I disagree that this alleged bio-father didn't know. (I disagree that this person is in fact undoubtedly the father, tbh.) MOO only because I'm still searching for a good link, but at that time period in PA, any person named as father had to sign an acknowledgement of paternity in order to have his name on the bc. Or he had to sign the original bc.

SO, if this "alleged bio-father" is the actual father on the bc... He could not have NOT known.

IMO,MOO,etc.

I think you're wrong. MOO. I have done geneology on more than four dozen families and these instances of NPE show up in frequency. Especially during the WWII era. Men home on breaks from deployment, etc. It is more than plausible that he had no idea.

 

[txsleuth70]

For awhile I thought this as well, but the census didn't seem to match this theory. The Z sisters were living at home still, and LE stated that Joseph's mother gave birth to 2 children prior to him. If one of the Z sisters were Joseph's mother, where were her other children? (they were not listed on the census living with them) The way the article was written seemed to specifically hint towards JT's grandmother having a "Z brother," which makes me think that's an indirect way of telling us that the father of Joseph is the Z, not the mother.

No, Z is not the mother's family. If you truly can see it on Ancestry then you can see it all very plainly. Father is who it allegedly is. MOO

 

[jbc]

Something else worth mentioning, as someone who has lived in Philly -- It seems silly but especially in the 1950s, Fox Chase to West Philly is a pretty wide gap in terms of location, community, and geographic setting...West Philly at this point in time was definitely urban living and heavily immigrant (especially Italian heritage). Think row homes, working-class, Italian speaking, heavy Catholic influence. This part of Fox Chase was suburban/wooded, more "Wasp," and not particularly immigrant, though had some Irish heritage influence. Culturally it would have been a world away in some senses. The one connection would have been the presence of the Catholic church. This especially makes me lean towards adoption or some other reason for Joseph to be found in this area. Though anything is possible, I have a hard time thinking/believing someone from their West Philly neighborhood would have made it all the way across and north of the city to dump this child.

As someone who grew up a stone's throw from the site on Susquehanna and Veree and has known about this case all of my life (but born after Joseph), let me reinforce this very good comment from louellen. This was my thought all through the press conference. I remember the flyers.

Let me add that if mom or dad decided to give him to a Catholic orphanage NE of Philadelphia, they may have been thinking that it was the best possible opportunity for the child. From opinions of current adults that were in Catholic orphanages from that area, they have fond memories of rural and educational opportunities provided by the priests, nuns, and brothers and a strong social network that they probably otherwise would not have had. They were treated well and thrived due to those experiences.

 

[RaspberryMama]

I feel this is important to add:

If JAZ was actually adopted by someone other that his birth parents at the time of his death, LE should not have released his bio name and parents.

They should have released his name as Joseph A "Adoptive last name" with the statement that he "was an adopted child & the birth parents have been identified through DNA but are not being released."

Thereby protecting Z family and bio-mother family. But, it's like identifying the actual birth parents can also serve as a "look what this technology can do". Which I'm all for because buried family secrets help no one.

Well, they didn't identify the birth parents, and aren't going to any time soon. So there's that. Again, anyone who thinks they've discovered the identity of the birth parents is merely speculating. And doing so irresponsibly and disrespectfully, imo.

 

[RoseTree]

I might be late to the game, but I just saw this video on Facebook. It looks like a little Joseph grew up which means they probably can rule out some of the theories that we have floating around.

Does anyone know anything about this area?

https://www.facebook.com/100057309196042/posts/637334418186859

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I've done genealogical research for close to 3 decades now. I think I've found potential relatives, but I know better than to jump to conclusions without seeing records. Did that quite often as a newbie genealogist and regretted it a good 50% of the time. Parents named their children after relatives that were not immediate family members, very, very often.

Actual records have to be obtained to be able to state anything as fact. Everything else is speculation.

MOO

Thank you for stating this! I had mentioned this in an earlier comment that got deleted about how JAZ's name being similar to another Zarelli doesn't mean definite parentage. It was in reply to other's stating it as if it was fact that it had to be this particular Zarelli due to the name, which I disagree due to it never being officially released. I mentioned how I have a cousin that was born out of wedlock in the 70s that took his mother's maiden name, but was named by my uncle and he has the same middle name as my father, grandfather, and great-great father. If his DNA was linked to my dad's family without knowing which was the father it would probably be suspected my Dad was as they have the same middle name, and he was also in his 20's at the time while my uncle was only 16.

 

[Kitsey]

For awhile I thought this as well, but the census didn't seem to match this theory. The Z sisters were living at home still, and LE stated that Joseph's mother gave birth to 2 children prior to him. If one of the Z sisters were Joseph's mother, where were her other children? (they were not listed on the census living with them) The way the article was written seemed to specifically hint towards JT's grandmother having a "Z brother," which makes me think that's an indirect way of telling us that the father of Joseph is the Z, not the mother.

LE stated that bio mom gave birth to two children before JAZ? I missed that

 

[RoseTree]

Thank you for stating this! I had mentioned this in an earlier comment that got deleted about how JAZ's name being similar to another Zarelli doesn't mean definite parentage. It was in reply to other's stating it as if it was fact that it had to be this particular Zarelli due to the name, which I disagree due to it never being officially released. I mentioned how I have a cousin that was born out of wedlock in the 70s that took his mother's maiden name, but was named by my uncle and he has the same middle name as my father, grandfather, and great-great father. If his DNA was linked to my dad's family without knowing which was the father it would probably be suspected my Dad was as they have the same middle name, and he was also in his 20's at the time while my uncle was only 16.

I have a cousin who did this too.

 

[jessr927]

LE stated that bio mom gave birth to two children before JAZ? I missed that

Did I hear wrong? I know for sure they stated that records turned up 3 birth certificates for her as the mother. Maybe it was the order in which they read it that I assumed she gave birth twice before him. But they definitely said she had two other children besides Joseph.

 

[RaspberryMama]

I might be late to the game, but I just saw this video on Facebook. It looks like a little Joseph grew up which means they probably can rule out some of the theories that we have floating around.

Does anyone know anything about this area?

https://www.facebook.com/100057309196042/posts/637334418186859

This reporter says Joseph lived in this area for four years... I don't remember anyone in the PC saying that. Does anyone else?

 

[Kitsey]

Did I hear wrong? I know for sure they stated that records turned up 3 birth certificates for her as the mother. Maybe it was the order in which they read it that I assumed she gave birth twice before him. But they definitely said she had two other children besides Joseph.

Im not sure birth order was established, that would certainly be illuminating

 

[RoseTree]

This reporter says Joseph lived in this area for four years... I don't remember anyone in the PC saying that. Does anyone else?

This is brand new news to me and I’m wondering where they’re getting this information.

 

[wary]

The press conference said that the murdered boy’s name, on his birth certificate, was Zarelli. They had found the birth certificate by identifying, through DNA and genealogical research, the boy’s mother.

The PC also said that the father’s name was on the birth certificate, but gave no hint as to what that name might be.

Now, I was born in another state, in the late ‘50s, and the name on my birth certificate is my mother’s last name. From what I understand, that would be quite ordinary, in that era, if the mother was unmarried.

So, I’m making no assumptions as to whether Zarelli comes from the maternal or paternal side. (When you listen to the PC, there are definitely hints that point to the possibility of the boy’s parents not being married. For example—the separate mention of siblings on the mother’s side, and siblings on the father’s side.)

 

[RaspberryMama]

No, Z is not the mother's family. If you truly can see it on Ancestry then you can see it all very plainly. Father is who it allegedly is. MOO

I think you are going by what others have put on ancestry, and making connections without the back up of actual records. If actual record images or links to records are included, please please let us know. Are there actual official records on Ancestry?

 

[Kitsey]

The press conference said that the murdered boy’s name, on his birth certificate, was Zarelli. They had found the birth certificate by identifying, through DNA and genealogical research, the boy’s mother.

The PC also said that the father’s name was on the birth certificate, but gave no hint as to what that name might be.

Now, I was born in another state, in the late ‘50s, and the name on my birth certificate is my mother’s last name. From what I understand, that would be quite ordinary, in that era, if the mother was unmarried.

So, I’m making no assumptions as to whether Zarelli comes from the maternal or paternal side. (When you listen to the PC, there are definitely hints that point to the possibility of the boy’s parents not being married. For example—the separate mention of siblings on the mother’s side, and siblings on the father’s side.)

I think your explanation is the most logical. Did any Z sisters have only two documented children?

 

[Mama-dukes]

The Grimes sisters disposal site with the investigators nearby was also published in the newspapers in 1956, I assume it’s the same in this case too. It is shocking and I imagine even more so at the time.

Edit. Yes, it’s definitely his body in box, top of head first. Very, very sad and distressing image.

Yes I found it and you r right his body is in the box

 

[breachtones]

I feel this is important to add:

If JAZ was actually adopted by someone other that his birth parents at the time of his death, LE should not have released his bio name and parents.

They should have released his name as Joseph A "Adoptive last name" with the statement that he "was an adopted child & the birth parents have been identified through DNA but are not being released."

Thereby protecting Z family and bio-mother family. But, it's like identifying the actual birth parents can also serve as a "look what this technology can do". Which I'm all for because buried family secrets help no one.

I don’t know if LE knows he was adopted tho. How could that be confirmed?

 

[txsleuth70]

I think you are going by what others have put on ancestry, and making connections without the back up of actual records. If actual record images or links to records are included, please please let us know. Are there actual official records on Ancestry?

No, I am going by the statement that JT made in the article and cross-referencing it to family information available on Ancestry. Actual dates documents. Obits, marriage announcements. Not information that anyone has added narratively.