txsleuth70
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I'm just saying if he WERE to have been adopted as others have stated. MOOI don’t know if LE knows he was adopted tho. How could that be confirmed?
I'm just saying if he WERE to have been adopted as others have stated. MOOI don’t know if LE knows he was adopted tho. How could that be confirmed?
I think you're wrong. MOO. I have done geneology on more than four dozen families and these instances of NPE show up in frequency. Especially during the WWII era. Men home on breaks from deployment, etc. It is more than plausible that he had no idea.
BBM, I was looking through the transcript and thought this was interesting -- I know there was some confusion yesterday when they said that the other children of the birth mother were previously known to investigators, and what exactly that meant. I'm wondering if the siblings had been matches in the DNA database and that was how they were able to determine the mother in the first place, so when they found their birth certificates they weren't surprised because they already knew about them.The results of the DNA testing were uploaded to DNA databases and the results were interpreted by the geneaologists involved in this investigation. Based on the interpretation of the results by the geneologists, detectives were able to locate and make contact with possible relatives of the child's family, on the maternal side. Through further investigation and additional testing, the geneologists involved in this investigation were able to establish the identity of the birth mother of the unidentified child. A court order signed by a Court of Common Pleas Judge to obtain the birth records, death records and adoption records for all children born to the established birth mother between the years 1944-1956 from the Pennsylvania Department of Health, Bureau and Health Statistics and Registries Division of Vital Records. There were three responsive results based on this order. Two of the results were birth certificates for children born to the established birth mother, during that time frame, who were previously known to investigators. One of whom provided DNA and was matched, previously, by the geneologist. The third result was a birth certificate for a male child born to the established birth mother in 1953, which could be consistent with the approximated age of the unidentified child. The birth father was listed on the birth certificate for the male child, born in 1953. Based on research by detectives and the geneologists, a male was discovered who could possibly be the birth father of the unidentified child. Detectives were able to locate and make contact with possible relatives of the child's family, on the paternal side. Through additional testing, the geneologists were able to establish the birth father of the unidentified child.
I completely disagree about the public's "right" to know anything, trumping the family's privacy. While this case has been public knowledge for decades, and while yes, we all want to see justice served, LE handling this case know a heck of a lot more than the public does, and if THEY made the choice to not identify them to the public, they have a good reason for that I will respect it. And, respect the family's right not to have their names tossed around on a public forum.There are people out there who are very good at genealogical research who will undoubtedly figure out who the parents are with a high level of confidence, so I'm taking a wait-and-see approach. I strongly disagree with law enforcement's decision not to name the boy's parents. This case has been the focus of public outrage for nearly seven decades. The public's right to know the truth far outweighs the family's right to privacy, in my opinion.
Here's an aerial photo of the site taken in 1959. Veree road is marked w/ the Yellow line. Pine in Red. The road between is Susquehanna Road. I believe one of the well footpaths mentioned above is in the woods that extend 10-15 feet into the field. Not sure about the intersection they mention.
That's how I interpreted it, too. Because of the time range of the records requested and how it was worded, I also got the sense that the known maternal siblings may not have known about Joseph, either.BBM, I was looking through the transcript and thought this was interesting -- I know there was some confusion yesterday when they said that the other children of the birth mother were previously known to investigators, and what exactly that meant. I'm wondering if the siblings had been matches in the DNA database and that was how they were able to determine the mother in the first place, so when they found their birth certificates they weren't surprised because they already knew about them.
There's also no way to know for certain that the two known siblings are older or younger than Joseph, due to the range of years that they requested records for -- they likely just picked a range with a little leeway in case Joseph turned out to be older than he appeared due to being malnourished/stunted/etc.
The search warrant for birth certificate’s for the mother was for the years 1944-1956. So, perhaps wrongly, assume Joseph had older sisters.Im not sure birth order was established, that would certainly be illuminating
M seemed to have some very significant info that was corroborated by witness statements, such as the man who pulled over to help M and her mother because he thought they were having car trouble. My first question regarding her is the house she went to to exchange an envelope (likely of money) for a little boy. Surely that was the police department's first question for her. At 11 years old you'd probably know at least a general area unless it was far from your home.Well, that other thread turned into a mess lol. Personally, I don't think the bio parents (whoever you believe them to be) really had anything to do with Joseph's death. Think about cases like Georgia's "Dennis" from 1999, if LE knows it's the parents they have no qualms about just releasing their name. You wouldn't release the name of someone who's innocent? I still believe M. Wish one of the reporters asked about that tip.
According to this linked article, “It is recognized that pleural effusion originates either in exogenous water inhaled into the lungs during drowning or in the endogenous water of the pulmonary edema, as in the process of acute death by asphyxiation.”According to the article below, his autopsy showed multiple injuries including subdural hematomas which would have been deadly.
What we know and don’t know about Joseph Augustus Zarelli, also known as the Boy in the Box
Joseph Augustus Zarelli has finally been identified. Here's what we know and what we don't about the Boy in the Box case.www.inquirer.com
It also mentions pleural effusions which doesn’t seem to fit with his traumatic injuries. From what I could find online:
“Pleural effusion can occur if your child has a lung inflammation or bacterial infection. It can also happen if fluid builds up after a surgery. If not treated, pleural effusion can lead to serious breathing problems. That’s why your child needs treatment right away.”
When Your Child Has Pleural Effusion
Pleural effusion occurs when too much fluid builds up in the pleural space. This is the area between the chest wall and lung. Learn more about this condition and how it's treated.www.saintlukeskc.org
I read somewhere that it looked like he had a chest tube at one time? Could that have been related to a previous lung infection ?
It does sound like he may have had a chronic health condition made worse by neglect and abuse.
Does anyone else remember reading about a scar that looked like the site of a previous chest tube?
M thought they were still in Philadelphia, but Philly is big and has many different neighborhoods. I'm 28, have lived in the suburbs of Philly all of my life, and even lived in Philly for a few years for college, and I wouldn't necessarily know what neighborhood I was in if I was driven somewhere. I've heard of them all, sure, but to be driven to one, especially as a child? No way I would know where I was.M seemed to have some very significant info that was corroborated by witness statements, such as the man who pulled over to help M and her mother because he thought they were having car trouble. My first question regarding her is the house she went to to exchange an envelope (likely of money) for a little boy. Surely that was the police department's first question for her. At 11 years old you'd probably know at least a general area unless it was far from your home.
Thank you for pointing this out. I think since they mentioned those two first I assumed, ridiculously, that they were born first. I do know that 2 previously mentioned babies who were dead at or shortly after birth can NOT be the two others mentioned at the PC.There's also no way to know for certain that the two known siblings are older or younger than Joseph, due to the range of years that they requested records for -- they likely just picked a range with a little leeway in case Joseph turned out to be older than he appeared due to being malnourished/stunted/etc.
I totally agree with you. I suspect LE has good reason for not naming the parents publicly, and there's a good chance the living siblings had no clue about Joseph. They were either too young, were born after, or were never told about him. They're not responsible for what happened to him, and should bear no public shame for it, but we all know there are rabid members of the public out there who will cross that boundary and troll these people if their names are released.I completely disagree about the public's "right" to know anything, trumping the family's privacy. While this case has been public knowledge for decades, and while yes, we all want to see justice served, LE handling this case know a heck of a lot more than the public does, and if THEY made the choice to not identify them to the public, they have a good reason for that I will respect it. And, respect the family's right not to have their names tossed around on a public forum.
jmo
That's how it is here in Ohio too but if the mother's maiden name is listed and the child has the same last name as the mother the implication would be that the mother and father were not married. We're talking about 1953 not 2022. It would be much less likely that a married woman would not take her husband's last name then than it is today. So Zarelli could be the father's name, but it could also be the mother's maiden name because they weren't married.
Having all 3 births between1953 and 1956, would be difficult - unless, of course, one or both of the other babies were premature. I do think it's likely that at least one of the children was born before Joseph.The search warrant for birth certificate’s for the mother was for the years 1944-1956. So, perhaps wrongly, assume Joseph had older sisters.
I believe they said this was done through mitochondrial DNA matching, which reveals maternal lineage-- that may be why they specified that. For the father's info, I'm assuming they're banking on the name on the birth certificate-- I can't think of another way that they could find a match until technology allows them to better examine his badly-degraded DNA. (Of course, I may have misunderstood)That's how I interpreted it, too. Because of the time range of the records requested and how it was worded, I also got the sense that the known maternal siblings may not have known about Joseph, either.
Near 61st and Market. From what I can tell, it was about 2,600 feet of that.I might be late to the game, but I just saw this video on Facebook. It looks like a little Joseph grew up which means they probably can rule out some of the theories that we have floating around.
Does anyone know anything about this area?
Unless someone other than the bio-father (cousin, brother, close friend...) signed the BC. I'm pretty sure photo IDs (like Drivers Licenses) weren't around then. Info was just written in longhand. And that could account for the father's misspelled name on the BC. And the bio-father would be totally unaware.I disagree that this alleged bio-father didn't know. (I disagree that this person is in fact undoubtedly the father, tbh.) MOO only because I'm still searching for a good link, but at that time period in PA, any person named as father had to sign an acknowledgement of paternity in order to have his name on the bc. Or he had to sign the original bc.
SO, if this "alleged bio-father" is the actual father on the bc... He could not have NOT known.
IMO,MOO,etc.
You know, the more I think about it, I don't think it was a misspelling. I think it was a shortening of the father's first name - what the mother knew him as.Unless someone other than the bio-father (cousin, brother, close friend...) signed the BC. I'm pretty sure photo IDs (like Drivers Licenses) weren't around then. Info was just written in longhand. And that could account for the father's misspelled name on the BC. And the bio-father would be totally unaware.
IMO