Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[RaspberryMama]

I do not think JAZ was adopted or "sold", because if he were, I think LE would have stated that to stop the speculation about the bio family. I am all but certain LE would have put the adoption front and center in the presser to stop the amateur sleuthing and people reaching out to JAZ's living relatives.

Or they have no evidence proving he was sold or adopted out if it had no paper trail.

 

[RaspberryMama]

I think your next to last sentence is everything here.( two came back from...)

Edited for clarity

Can you expand on this please?

 

[Laughing]

Probably going to write this wrong, so I apologize. If the identified father had brothers, it's possible one of them could have been his biological father instead, no matter what the birth certificate says. I don't think they're disputing a familial relationship, only that their father is his father. That's how I interpreted it.

For example, in the Allenstown NH case, they narrowed down the possible father of Denise's daughter, Dawn, to a family of brothers. IIRC, all were married at the time she was conceived, and all the brothers deny it, but, based on DNA, one of them did.

Then there is a news reporter whose mother was given up for adoption. So, he went searching for his biological maternal grandmother (I think he found the grandfather). It came down to four daughters, all who had passed by then, and no one still alive knew which daughter had a baby and gave it up for adoption. He never found out who she was, only that she was one of four.

Late to the party but absolutely agree.

Decades ago I worked at Social Services in my state -- in Child Support Enforcement.

Specifically, paternity establishment.

Not a case I handled, but in our state an alleged father was scheduled for the blood draw for paternity testing. Years before the check swab, folks, full tube out of the arm.

This guy did NOT understand genetics. He sent his own brother to the blood draw. Sufficient resemblance to his ID to trick the system, they thought.

Sent his brother to the blood draw --with his own military ID. Yeah, his military ID.

Yup.

The blood test did indicate at the established statistical level that the alleged father was indeed the biological father.

Well, he then beat his brother to a pulp, thinking that his brother slept with his girlfriend.

He was arrested before he reached the young mother.

He may still be in Leavenworth -- for the crime of using his military ID to defraud a government entity.

 

[Betty P]

I completely disagree about the public's "right" to know anything, trumping the family's privacy. While this case has been public knowledge for decades, and while yes, we all want to see justice served, LE handling this case know a heck of a lot more than the public does, and if THEY made the choice to not identify them to the public, they have a good reason for that I will respect it. And, respect the family's right not to have their names tossed around on a public forum.

jmo

JMO, the only caveat is that there was a crime involving their child. Someone killed him, brutally. At some point, the law requires this information be made public in the context of the child's murder and (hopefully) an investigation.

 

[Gardenista]

Not sure if this was posted, but Gray Hughes had Misty Gillis on tonight. She is with Identifinders and worked on this case. I haven't listened yet, but if you want to check it out, it's at the very beginning of the stream

 

[Kitsey]

'Boy in the Box' is Identified as Joseph Augustus Zarelli

After 65 years,

www.forensicmag.com

(^article on the genetic trail that the researchers followed)

With this quote:

//Eventually, Fitzpatrick and Gillis gave the Philadelphia Police Department leads for the maternal side of the child’s family. Detectives made contact with the family, obtaining a DNA sample from a living relative. After further testing, Fitzpatrick and Gillis were able to confirm the identity of the child’s birth mother.

This cracked open the case and made people invest the time to piece together SNP markers, leading to more information.

(And no one is "pure Albanian" because either people came there after the first Europeans arrived circa 40,000 years ago OR they share what is called "Older European" or "Paleo-European" markers which are not specific to any group and which nearly every single European has (except for people arriving later).

Albania has been inhabited since the Paleolithic, is what I'm saying. And with some stable elements in their genome which they share with non-Albanians.

Confirmation that the Z DNA comes from JAZ's bio mother. This is huge.

 

[RaspberryMama]

The Zarelli family was almost certainly Roman Catholic, no? I would think if Zarelli is the surname of either mother or father, Joseph would have been baptized shortly after birth. I wonder if the neighborhood church has any records from around that time. Surely it's been looked into by now?

 

[meyniemist]

Nothing to add here but I remember reading Joseph’s Wikipedia article for the first time when I was about 11 years old. To see him identified and see these new theories feels so surreal to me after 14 years of knowing him as “The Boy in the Box”. Bless everyone who remembered him and the people who worked to get his name back. At the very least, I hope something can be traced and that photos may be found of him when he was alive. The reconstruction photo is the main photo on his Wikipedia article now, but I still hope there may be a real picture of him. To see the real Joseph, if that makes sense.

 

[Kitsey]

Not sure if this was posted, but Gray Hughes had Misty Gillis on tonight. She is with Identifinders and worked on this case. I haven't listened yet, but if you want to check it out, it's at the very beginning of the stream

Thanks for posting this, I'm a few minutes in and it's very interesting. Misti says that the birth certificate verified the father they had mapped out, whose closest DNA relative they could find was in Italy.

 

[spacedcurls]

Confirmation that the Z DNA comes from JAZ's bio mother. This is huge.

Not necessarily. They had leads for the maternal DNA, then found the birth certificate. After finding the name of the birth father on the birth certificate, they also DNA tested and compared the paternal side, meaning both sides were tested.

 

[Kitsey]

Not necessarily. They had leads for the maternal DNA, then found the birth certificate. After finding the name of the birth father on the birth certificate, they also DNA tested and compared the paternal side, meaning both sides were tested.

From listening to Misti's interview, the highest paternal match they could find was in Italy <modsnip>

 

[fred&edna]

The dye and surgery scars speak to someone outside the family knowing that this boy existed.

ITA. And, begs the question... why did they keep it silent? What was the motivation? It's possible the treating physician died before JAZ was found murdered... but there had to be others (in and out of the med field) who knew about the procedures. Did the records ever exist or were they destroyed? I suppose there are no online-searchable records for "Visiting Nurses of Philadelphia" and/or the "Children's Aid Society of Philadelphia" during the time period?

ETA... I just found this although I haven't decided if it's particularly helpful yet.

Visiting Nurse Association of Greater Philadelphia records - Philadelphia Area Archives

findingaids.library.upenn.edu

 

[spacedcurls]

From listening to Misti's interview, the highest paternal match they could find was in Italy <modsnip>

I’m listening to it now, and I don’t think that’s exactly what she was saying. The way I understand it:

They found matches on the paternal side, but the closest relationship was an (estimated) second or third cousin. The person that initially ”linked” them together within the family tree was from Italy, which made finding records more difficult. It was easier for them to deduce who mom was because they matched Joseph’s DNA to a sibling. Once they had mom’s name, they were able to get the birth certificate and find dad’s name. They then were able to match and validate the paternal matches (through DNA) from there.

(edited for clarity (hopefully))
(edited again because I accidentally said sister instead of sibling)

 

[DBinMA]

ITA. And, begs the question... why did they keep it silent? What was the motivation? It's possible the treating physician died before JAZ was found murdered... but there had to be others (in and out of the med field) who knew about the procedures. Did the records ever exist or were they destroyed? I suppose there are no online-searchable records for "Visiting Nurses of Philadelphia" and/or the "Children's Aid Society of Philadelphia" during the time period?

ETA... I just found this although I haven't decided if it's particularly helpful yet.

Visiting Nurse Association of Greater Philadelphia records - Philadelphia Area Archives

findingaids.library.upenn.edu

I wonder if a family member was a medical professional and did things “off the books”

 

[Alleykins]

Late to the party but absolutely agree.

Decades ago I worked at Social Services in my state -- in Child Support Enforcement.

Specifically, paternity establishment.

Not a case I handled, but in our state an alleged father was scheduled for the blood draw for paternity testing. Years before the check swab, folks, full tube out of the arm.

This guy did NOT understand genetics. He sent his own brother to the blood draw. Sufficient resemblance to his ID to trick the system, they thought.

Sent his brother to the blood draw --with his own military ID. Yeah, his military ID.

Yup.

The blood test did indicate at the established statistical level that the alleged father was indeed the biological father.

Well, he then beat his brother to a pulp, thinking that his brother slept with his girlfriend.

He was arrested before he reached the young mother.

He may still be in Leavenworth -- for the crime of using his military ID to defraud a government entity.

Oh, my!
I bet you have a ton of interesting paternity stories!
I have a few, and I didn't even work in the field. They just kind of fell into my lap.
My ex husband thought he was going to be a father (we were already divorced, this isn't related to our break up). It was a one night stand and the woman told him it could be someone else's, but he stuck by her anyway until they could test the baby. The whole pregnancy, he was supporting her, taking her to prenatal appointments, and giving her money. He kept asking where the other potential father was. Why wasn't he helping, showing up, etc. She wouldn't give him an answer. His mother even through her a baby shower. After the baby was born, and they were waiting for the test results, the other prospective father still wasn't in the picture, and the ex kept asking, where is this guy? His mother grew really attached to baby, it was her first grandkid.
Turned out the baby wasn't my ex's.
It was her stepfather's. He was in the picture the whole time, hiding in plain sight, as grandpa.

 

[Kitsey]

I’m listening to it now, and I don’t think that’s exactly what she was saying. The way I understand it:

They found matches on the paternal side, but the closest relationship was an (estimated) second or third cousin. The person that initially ”linked” them together within the family tree was from Italy, which made finding records more difficult. It was easier for them to deduce who mom was because they matched Joseph’s DNA to a sister. Once they had mom’s name, they were able to get the birth certificate and find dad’s name. They then were able to match and validate the paternal matches (through DNA) from there.

(edited for clarity (hopefully))

That very well may be true. So the cousin from Italy could have validated the dad’s name on the certificate?

 

[Snoopster]

I am not going to wade into the back and forth about adoption, who's who, etc. I just don't have the time right now, and I don't know if I want to.

But I definitely wanted to say that I am thrilled that this young child, Joseph Augustus Zarelli, has his identity back. I also want to let the siblings know that I am sending them hugs. I can't imagine the shock of this news to them. And now they are surrounded by a firestorm of interest, while hoping they aren't identified. And who knows what some of them might have gone through themselves. (or not) I'd love to give them all virtual hug.

ETA: I appreciate the way that LE is handling this and the respect they are showing for the family.

 

[spacedcurls]

That very well may be true. So the cousin from Italy could have validated the dad’s name on the certificate?

I don’t know if the cousin was from/born in Italy, or just that their common ancestor was from Italy and it was difficult to try to get any records as a result.

 

[Kitsey]

I don’t know if the cousin was from/born in Italy, or just that their common ancestor was from Italy and it was difficult to try to get any records as a result.

Got it, thanks

 

[AliceInPain]

I think they got the DNA sample from one of the mother's sons?