Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[steff13]

I don’t know much about M’s story, but if her mother bought him, did she say for what reason? To be a member of the family? To eventually work for the family or some other nefarious reasons? I don’t think the mother could collect welfare for him.
If it was for the first reason, surely there were photographs and other family members and neighbors who knew of his existence and yet from what I read, she couldn’t corroborate her story.
It does seem like he was hidden from an early age by whoever his caregivers were, unless, he unfortunately, wasn’t recognisable to those who had encountered him at one stage, in his very short life.

I believe her story is that her mother purchased the little boy specifically to abuse him. The story was investigated at the time and nothing came of it. I just recently reread it and I tend to think that it's not *the* story. For instance she said that her mother kept him in the basement and he was never allowed outside and no one outside the home was allowed to see him, but he clearly had had some sort of medical intervention, so someone outside the household must have seen him.

 

[RaspberryMama]

Just saying they have been on that site at least.

But not on *this* site. You might want to have a look at the TOS here.

 

[steff13]

Just saying they have been on that site at least.

Unless someone has posted a copy of Joseph's birth certificate then that is just speculation.

 

[RaspberryMama]

I may be misremembering, but I thought LE said they had an idea of who it was. It might have been last week when they originally announced that they had found his name that they also said they had an idea of who had killed him. But I would have to look and see.

From the transcript of the PC yesterday, Captain ? (2nd speaker) speaking :

The second question is obviously going to be: do we know who is responsible for Joseph’s death?

The answer, at this time, is unfortunately, no. We have our suspicions as to who may be responsible but it would be irresponsible of me to share these suspicions as this remains an active and ongoing criminal investigation.

 

[steff13]

From the transcript of the PC yesterday, Captain ? (2nd speaker) speaking :

Yes I think that's what I was thinking of. So it sounds like they have an idea but no proof.

 

[Alleykins]

My "shocked" emoji comes from not believing that the sentence that starts with "tragically" is what really happened.

We have no way of really knowing what happened to the poor baby, it upset her too much to talk about it, even decades later, so no one dared to ask her about him. All we know is his first name.

 

[CandyKiss]

We have no way of really knowing what happened to the poor baby, it upset her too much to talk about it, even decades later, so no one dared to ask her about him. All we know is his first name.

you have the approximate year the male child was born/passed; wouldn't there be a death certificate under your grandmother's maiden name?

 

[Friday Fan]

I don’t know much about M’s story, but if her mother bought him, did she say for what reason? To be a member of the family? To eventually work for the family or some other nefarious reasons? I don’t think the mother could collect welfare for him.
If it was for the first reason, surely there were photographs and other family members and neighbors who knew of his existence and yet from what I read, she couldn’t corroborate her story.
It does seem like he was hidden from an early age by whoever his caregivers were, unless, he unfortunately, wasn’t recognisable to those who had encountered him at one stage, in his very short life, so they never came forward.

Scroll down to Ohio informant

Case Summary

 

[IDK]

From Doe Network:

Clothing & Personal Items

Clothing: A tan child's scarf and a boy's yellow flannel shirt were also recovered at the scene. Investigators determined that the size four shirt matched the child's size at the time of his homicide. A child's pair of black shoes were also located, however, they did not fit the unidentified boy.

4UMPA

Wow thanks so much. So the shirt was most likely his it seems, and I wonder about the scarf. Odd to have his scarf there (IMO) unless they had taken him somewhere just prior to his death— maybe a doctor for his eye infection, and the source of the dye in his eye?

Or the scarf could have belonged to another child at the scene? Lots to think about here….

 

[Alleykins]

Agreed, because unwed or minor mothers were sometimes told this when a nurse or someone else may have been in on a baby-selling ring. I'm being serious. Sometimes mothers were told their baby died, but were never allowed to see the deceased newborn.

When I first heard about Georgia Tan, I thought about the possibility, but that was long after my gram had passed, so I had no way to ask her if she saw him after he died. My aunt, cousin, and sister put our family DNA out there, and no surprises have showed up on that side of the family. So, if he was adopted, neither he nor any of his descendants, if he had any, have put their DNA out there.

 

[steff13]

Wow thanks so much. So the shirt was most likely his it seems, and I wonder about the scarf. Odd to have his scarf there (IMO) unless they had taken him somewhere just prior to his death— maybe a doctor for his eye infection, and the source of the dye in his eye?

Or the acarf could have belonged to another child at the scene? Lots to think about here….

I think it's hard to know because the area where he was found was a common dumping ground so the items there could be completely unrelated.

 

[AnnesCuthberts]

Honestly the amount of speculation and confusion going on now all over social media, they really should’ve just named the persons who’s care he was last in, be it biological parents or not. We already have the Zarelli name and that has already led to doxing of people with that last name, really what a sh** show it’s turning into. And yes I’m well into the speculating myself of course, that’s why I’m on here

Agreed with this. I’m willing to admit I’m a nosy person. Combined with being a genealogist, nosiness usually helps me there. But it’s been unsettling how many people take speculation that should IMO be private (after all, no one can moderate our thoughts or our conversations with friends) and taking it not only into the public sphere but even onto places like Find a Grave and Family Search to link Joseph with parents based on their suspicions and not the actual evidence we all now know exists (IMO, this means the actual document of Joseph’s birth, plus information on DNA matches that explicitly confirm the relationship established by the person who worked with the data, and not, IMO, taken from reading a news article that states “this person matches with X and they think they’re related by Y”. And yes yes I know, do some further research and you could maybe work it independently by looking at names and dates, but again we know there is existing documentary AND dna evidence that tells us Joseph’s parents are. Frankly, I’d feel like a terrible researcher putting inferences I’ve made public knowing I’m ignoring evidence like that just because I haven’t seen it. Until law enforcement or family confirm the relationship through official media channels, anything else is bordering on harassment and like you said, seems like doxxing to me. JMO MOO etc. I will say I don’t attribute malice in peoples actions doing this as I (hope anyway!) a lot of it comes down to a genuine desire to want to help and find truth, but the consequences are still the same no matter whether someone is doing it to help or to spread wild hatred (which I have seen, but thankfully that’s been more on social media channels and a lot easier for me to avoid, but of course - probably a lot harder for the family :/)

 

[Friday Fan]

When I first heard about Georgia Tan, I thought about the possibility, but that was long after my gram had passed, so I had no way to ask her if she saw him after he died. My aunt, cousin, and sister put our family DNA out there, and no surprises have showed up on that side of the family. So, if he was adopted, neither he nor any of his descendants, if he had any, have put their DNA out there.

I saw a documentary like that. It was a real low budget doc. This guy sits with an aging woman who thinks her infant was stolen. She gets swindled by a con woman pretending to be her daughter. (Con woman doesn't look anything like the woman.) They eventually dig up part of the grave yard. In the end, the baby actually had died shortly after birth. The woman died shortly after the documentary was filmed.


I got the impression that the woman held onto this belief for a reason other than actually believing her child was stolen. I think she had depression/emotional issues and this "dream" just kinda gave her something to live for. The story goes in a bunch of different directions and never really seems to end.

 

[IDK]

I think it's hard to know because the area where he was found was a common dumping ground so the items there could be completely unrelated.

Agree— it’s very hard to know exactly what “recovered at the scene” means— but a size 4 flannel shirt at the scene was an interesting find. Just curious what piece of clothing they are sending for additional testing.

 

[IDK]

One of the articles states a child's size 4 shirt was found separately and a tan scarf. Mentioned shoes found separately nearby but were wrong size. The article didn't mention any pants or underpants.

Thank you— I missed your post earlier!

 

[Alleykins]

you have tn approximate year the male child was born/passed; wouldn't there be a death certificate under your grandmother's maiden name?

Finding him has proven to be difficult. No one knows when or where he was born, only that it was before 1942,
when she married my grandfather. He was born and died at the same hospital, so we should find both
certificates in the same geographical location. Then there's also a chance she had him in another state, as her brother lived out of state by then, but I don't know where he was before 1942.

 

[CandyKiss]

Finding him has proven to be difficult. No one knows when or where he was born, only that it was before 1942,
when she married my grandfather. He was born and died at the same hospital, so we should find both
certificates in the same geographical location. Then there's also a chance she had him in another state, as her brother lived out of state by then, but I don't know where he was before 1942.

I have one gg-mother I’m having a hard time tracing; she only had one name? Then split the name in two names later to create a new name? lol… Logically, I’d look at her age and take a guess based on mid to late 30’s of what age she might have been pregnant. I’d check the areas she was known to live; and pull all the information on her brother. If you knew where he lived in 1942, the 1940’s census may have another state or area in a known state. There’s also a chance she was sent to a grandparent’s home; aunt/uncle? I’d search those locations. You’ll have to keep a notebook of all the areas you’ve searched. Since you have his first name; I think she gave him her last name? It should prove to be very interesting to figure out.

 

[IDK]

Agree— it’s very hard to know exactly what “recovered at the scene” means— but a size 4 flannel shirt at the scene was an interesting find. Just curious what piece of clothing they are sending for additional testing.

I can’t find the post right now, but someone previously posted the scarf was tested to see if it had been worn by “M”. That’s good to know and TY to whoever posted that.

 

[Gypsysoul25]

well...at least the Zarelli Surname has become famous now wether folks from that household secretly wanted it or not
>_<

and Georgia Tann died from cancer but then again no human lives forever.I remember watching a documentary(or segment)that Oprah Winfrey did on Georgia And I remember some positive stories like one of the daughters being reunited with the birth mother or something like that(I kinda forgot)

 

[IDK]

Just saying they have been on that site at least.

If allowed, what is the name of the site you are talking about— is it Ancestry?