Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[Alleykins]

They did not. While I acknowledge that the wording is not 100% clear, to me it sounds like they were shown a photo of him in life. MOO.

The reason why I ask is because so many news outlets are using his most recent reconstruction, which is very life-like, but not an actual picture of him before his passing, as a memorial, like it's an actual photo. Here's what I'm referring to, from the Newsweek article:

See how they're putting his name on the picture? Because this isn't him, it's a reconstruction OF him. So I was thinking the media was confusing this with an actual picture of him. It isn't.
This came from the updated article, another reason why I think there may be some confusion.

 

[PJFL]

At about 17:20, Misty Gillis talks a bit more in this video:
Investigations – NBC10 Philadelphia

 

[non_ducor_duco_]

The reason why I ask is because so many news outlets are using his most recent reconstruction, which is very life-like, but not an actual picture of him before his passing, as a memorial, like it's an actual photo. Here's what I'm referring to, from the Newsweek article:
View attachment 386773
See how they're putting his name on the picture? Because this isn't him, it's a reconstruction OF him. So I was thinking the media was confusing this with an actual picture of him. It isn't.
This came from the updated article, another reason why I think there may be some confusion.

If they were confusing this with a picture of him I would think they would have worded the change differently. Probably along the lines of “this article has been updated with the photograph released by the Philadelphia police department”. And if they were mistaken in the original article that there was a planned release of a photo I would expect a correction noted at the end such as “an earlier version of this story said ____ due to (insert reason for error here). This article has been updated to reflect _____.” Because it says neither of those things, I think the odds are good that police have a photo and have changed their minds about sharing it for an unknown reason. MOO

 

[Firebird1]

M has died??

Yes, she died in 2020 I believe.

 

[CCJD]

There is. Therapist and Priests to some extent, are health care professionals. If you knew that either was free to share your confidences, you wouldn't go to them and then they couldn't help anyone. I believe in the case of Therapist if they know their patient is a threat to themselves or others they have to report. But in a case like this, where no one was in danger, that doctor patient privilege is in play.

What happens if a priest violates the seal of confession? The Catechism (No. 1467) cites the Code of Canon Law (No. 1388.1) in addressing this issue, which states, "A confessor who directly violates the seal of confession incurs an automatic excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; if he does so only indirectly, he is to be punished in accord with the seriousness of the offense." From the severity of the punishment, we can clearly see how sacred the sacramental seal of confession is in the eyes of the Church.

The Seal of the Confessional

Can a priest ever tell someone another persons confession? The standard of secrecy protecting a confession outweighs any form of professional confiden...

www.catholiceducation.org

 

[RoseTree]

I know i’m going back on not harping on M comment, but is it possible her mother was invested in this case for another reason(maybe volunteered with abused children) and she developed false memories because of it?

I will say i have not seen M photos when she was younger, but as an older lady, she did seem like she could be confused for another gender when wearing a hat and not hearing/seeing her clearly. jmo

I have a 13 year old son who is confused for being female often. Long and lanky kids…. It happens

 

[Lore Listener]

I’ve started reading David Stout’s book The Boy in the Box: The Unsolved Case of America’s Unknown Child, and wanted to circle back to the dye in the eye — David Stout states that the eye shone yellow under the UV light, rather than the blue that had been reported elsewhere. I wonder which is true, but if it’s yellow then it certainly could have been fluorescein. I don’t think the staining from fluorescein usually lasts that long, so did Joseph visit an eye doctor very shortly before his death?

Ohhh @spacedcurls! Please keep us posted of any and all interesting tidbits from that book!

 

[Lore Listener]

Informal adoption is also an option. (Family member etc) Paper trail may be poor or non-existent.
Institutionalization/foster home is also an option. (Yes, there would be records at the time of placement, but those records may be hard to find or may no longer exist)

I do think there is a paper trail, if a very minimal one. Hence my post from yesterday about the comments from people close to the case, in particular Misty Gillis and the law enforcement investigation team. I do think JAZ was under the care of at least one adult who was not a biological parent and that investigators know this and have access to the historical record even though the documentation is not available to the media or general public. This is just my speculation based on comments in the press conference and Gray Hughes genealogy interview from people with inside knowledge of the case.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Would the church have the attendance records for the baptism?

It is possible, if baptized. Some priest will not baptized illegitimate children, even today.

The local parish was St. Donato, which closed in 2013. Our Lady of Lourdes has the records.

 

[RaspberryMama]

What happens if a priest violates the seal of confession? The Catechism (No. 1467) cites the Code of Canon Law (No. 1388.1) in addressing this issue, which states, "A confessor who directly violates the seal of confession incurs an automatic excommunication reserved to the Apostolic See; if he does so only indirectly, he is to be punished in accord with the seriousness of the offense." From the severity of the punishment, we can clearly see how sacred the sacramental seal of confession is in the eyes of the Church.

The Seal of the Confessional

Can a priest ever tell someone another persons confession? The standard of secrecy protecting a confession outweighs any form of professional confiden...

www.catholiceducation.org

Just want to add my thoughts to this little sidebar... If someone were to admit to a serious crime, a good priest will strongly encourage that person to turn themself in. In fact, true absolution depends on being truly sorry (even if it's just "I wish I hadn't done that because now I'm gonna be in trouble!"). So if the person confessing says they do not intend to admit to the crime, the priest can withhold absolution. He can actually withhold absolution until the person turns themself in. This all depends on the severity of the crime of course. No priest that I know well is going to simply absolve someone who has committed a murder but doesn't want to face the music. MOO

 

[HarmonyE.]

<modsnip - quoted post and response to it removed>

In regards to baked beans, I guess M said that Joseph ate and subsequently vomited up baked beans, and then he was beaten to death for throwing up? I think? And apparently it was a detail that was withheld from the public. I can't find a source where LE corroborates that baked beans were in his stomach though. And if he threw them up, they may not have even been in his stomach. If the account is even true. I think (hope) at this point, LE knows whether or not Ms account is factual.

A substance that was possibly brownish vomit was noted by the ME. While my understanding is that this was not widely known in 1957, this did make it to the internet by the late 1990s, specifically to a site about the case. IIRC, M's psychiatrist came forward in 2000.

 

[iamshadow21]

Just want to add my thoughts to this little sidebar... If someone were to admit to a serious crime, a good priest will strongly encourage that person to turn themself in. In fact, true absolution depends on being truly sorry (even if it's just "I wish I hadn't done that because now I'm gonna be in trouble!"). So if the person confessing says they do not intend to admit to the crime, the priest can withhold absolution. He can actually withhold absolution until the person turns themself in. This all depends on the severity of the crime of course. No priest that I know well is going to simply absolve someone who has committed a murder but doesn't want to face the music. MOO

Adding on though - he can withhold absolution for an unforgivable sin or an act the person confessing feels no contrition for or is continuing to perpetuate, but that doesn't mean he's not still bound by the seal of the confessional. It's not a 'tit for tat'. The seal of the confessional is absolute, regardless of whether the sin is forgiven.

MOO. I'm not even a Catholic, but this is an interest of mine, the customs of confession. If I've got it wrong at all, pipe up and correct me, and I'll offer a mea culpa.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yesterday, I went down the street where I believe JAZ was from. A few signs on businesses that had been boarded decades ago had Italian names. A building that had been a bakery had an ad for "Gold Medal Flour" painted on the bricks.

It is a Black neighborhood, vibrant, with a lot of young children. The house was nicely decorated for the holidays.

 

[Friday Fan]

Yesterday, I went down the street where I believe JAZ was from. A few signs on businesses that had been boarded decades ago had Italian names. A building that had been a bakery had an ad for "Gold Medal Flour" painted on the bricks.

It is a Black neighborhood, vibrant, with a lot of young children. The house was nicely decorated for the holidays.

I noticed what you meant the other day about locals possibly not owning vehicles! There appeared nowhere to park except on the street and there doesn't seem to be an alley behind the homes. Kinda like NYC in that respect.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I noticed what you meant the other day about locals possibly not owning vehicles! There appeared nowhere to park except on the street and there doesn't seem to be an alley behind the homes. Kinda like NYC in that respect.

None on that block. There is a foot passage to the back yard of the house. All the back yards abut.

There may have been a row of garages about a block away

 

[Friday Fan]

None on that block. There is a foot passage to the back yard of the house. All the back yards abut.

There may have been a row of garages about a block away

Yeah..I noticed that, they kinda look like storage units, but who knows what was there c 1953-1957

 

[LaLa723]

I do think there is a paper trail, if a very minimal one. Hence my post from yesterday about the comments from people close to the case, in particular Misty Gillis and the law enforcement investigation team. I do think JAZ was under the care of at least one adult who was not a biological parent and that investigators know this and have access to the historical record even though the documentation is not available to the media or general public. This is just my speculation based on comments in the press conference and Gray Hughes genealogy interview from people with inside knowledge of the case.

I rewatched the press conference and watched the Misty Gillis interview yesterday. I really think you’re right! I believe there is a piece of the puzzle that we don’t know, but they have a good idea of what happened. But probably not all the details.

 

[RaspberryMama]

N

Adding on though - he can withhold absolution for an unforgivable sin or an act the person confessing feels no contrition for or is continuing to perpetuate, but that doesn't mean he's not still bound by the seal of the confessional. It's not a 'tit for tat'. The seal of the confessional is absolute, regardless of whether the sin is forgiven.

MOO. I'm not even a Catholic, but this is an interest of mine, the customs of confession. If I've got it wrong at all, pipe up and correct me, and I'll offer a mea culpa.

You are absolutely correct. He still can not go notify police himself. However, a person seeking forgiveness in the first place is more likely to take the advice of a priest, imo. And the priest would take time to really counsel the person, pushing home the need for forgiveness and the importance of taking responsibility for one's actions.

 

[fred&edna]

Yeah..I noticed that, they kinda look like storage units, but who knows what was there c 1953-1957

This appears to be a searchable photo database of Philadelphia (and site registration didn't seem to be mandatory). 'Just offering it for any locals who would know streets in and around the JAZ-occupied area.

https://www.phillyhistory.org/PhotoArchive/Home.aspx

 

[aThousandYearsWide]

I'm referencing a similar case that was also a 2022 ID just for some incite to all the speculation and discussion about Joseph's last name and possible siblings. Derek and David D'Alton were also recently identified and there was a cliff hanger in that case as well since the killer is not verified and most who would know or could have seen something are most likely all deceased by now. Their case happened a decade prior to Joseph's. In their case they previously had the last name Bousquet, their mother's maiden name. LE do not know where D'Alton came from and noted their mother had used several different last names. Also of note, they had a older sibling that lived and continued to live with their mother after their sudden disappearance. The older sister that was spared was told the boys were taken away to a ministry due to her not being able to care for them. The mother also did not know the father's of any of her three children, and allegedly per several news articles, worked as a prostitute. Since it is known that Joseph had siblings, if they did actually know each other could they have been told a similar story to explain his sudden absence? Of note also, I bring their case up to give example to how last names may not particularly lead to the obvious since these boys father's weren't known and they lived with two different last names in their short lives, one that Mom could have even made up. Also in their case LE chose to withhold the Mother's name but it was unintentionally leaked due to sleuthing. There is no definitive proof she was the perpetrator, only speculations, but she was still doxed severally and she has been deceased for over 20 years. I just felt terrible for her living relatives reading these awful things about their grandmother and great-grandmother. I agree with 'innocent until proven guilty' in these instances. Since we do not know Joseph's killer unless they absolutely officially release it we should respect the family. We do not know anything unless it is released and keep speculating at a respectful level.