PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #15

[J. J. in Phila]

All times are on 4/15/05; times are approximate.

8:30 AM PEF arrives at work.

11:30-40 AM PEF receives the call from PEF.

12:00 Noon to 1:00 PM PEF at lunch.

4:30 PM Returns home (may have called RFG's cell phone)

5:20 PM Goes to gym (possibly the YMCA)

7:20 PM PEF returns home. Possibly begins calling RFG's cell phone

8:00 PM PEF calls her brother. Asks if he thinks it is normal for RFG not to respond.

8:00 PM- 11:00 PM PEF keeps calling the cell phone.

11:00-11:30 PM Calls Bellefonte Police.

There will be phone records of where calls were made to RFG's cell. He had voice mail, and various other people (the police, a CDT reporter) called his cell phone over 4/15-4/16/05.

Driving at the speed limit, in good conditions with no traffic, it would take about 1:45 to drive from the Courthouse to the SoS and back. That does not involve any stopping in Lewisburg.

 

[minazoe]

Depending on how someone hit the water, going into the river could cause neck damage, or could cause unconsciousness. There would also be hypothermia.

PEF is accounted for the entire day.

have'nt we gone around about this?

could she have had him killed?

could the sighting days be wrong?

wasn't there something odd about the previous evening?

perhaps the computer is a red herring.


I wish we could find a body...they should re-do the woods. Certainly she should know if her boyfriend.( who wouldnt marry her) suffered from depression.

this is one of the great mysteries. this case.

I dont beleive RG would intentionally create such a muddle for law enforcement etc.

no...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

have'nt we gone around about this?

could she have had him killed?

could the sighting days be wrong?

wasn't there something odd about the previous evening?

perhaps the computer is a red herring.

There are too many sightings, and there was a phone call, which has a record.

No, there was nothing "odd" about the prior evening. RFG did often work after hours.

The laptop could be unrelated. I think that is a real possibility.

In theory, anybody could have had RFG killed, but why Lewisburg? Nobody, except RFG and anybody he told, would know when he would be in Lewisburg. If someone was hired to kill him, why not just knock on the front door, or wait until he returns from work.

I wish we could find a body...they should re-do the woods. Certainly she should know if her boyfriend.( who wouldnt marry her) suffered from depression.

this is one of the great mysteries. this case.

I dont beleive RG would intentionally create such a muddle for law enforcement etc.

no...

Depression is something that might not immediately be apparent. I have been suffering from depression for about two years, and had not been familiar with the symptoms from looking at this case, I probably would have thought it was something else.

I'm also not sure that RFG's is the one that didn't want to get married.

As far as I know, except for minor offense of destroying county property, there was no other crime that RFG could be charged with at this point. Walking away from your own life, leaving no debts, not running from the law, providing for your loved ones, is not illegal.

 

[minazoe]

No, there was something unusual about that trip to the office, something hinky about his behaviour..I can't remember, Ill have to go back.

Which phone call are you referring to?

Has everyone tired of Sandusky speculation? :moo:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No, there was something unusual about that trip to the office, something hinky about his behaviour..I can't remember, Ill have to go back.

Which phone call are you referring to?

Has everyone tired of Sandusky speculation? :moo:

The phone call, actually calls, were a call to the house by a contractor before RFG left, and the call made from just north of Centre Hall by RFG from his cell phone. The latter has a record.

RFG's behavior in the 4-5 weeks before he disappeared was unusual, but there was nothing out of the ordinary about the night of 4/14.

So far, we don't have a link to anything Sandusky related. There is no evidence that RFG did anything illegal or unethical in 1998, nor that he was working on the case.

I would add that I am not aware of original searches of the wooded areas across the river by LE. It was the first thing that I suggestion be done.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

As of today, Ray F. Gricar has been missing for 11 years.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There were some remains found southeast of Danville, but it appears to someone who has been missing since January. http://wkok.com/body-found-may-be-missing-millville-man/

It is about 17 miles (linear) from Lewisburg and of a different branch of the Susquehanna. Still, it is in the area, so we should watch it.

 

[SuperSmith]

JJ, where did you get this "9:00-10:00: Contractor, calls house and speaks to RFG about some repairs to the house."? I have never heard that or read that from any source including you.

 

[SuperSmith]

I think it is important for all the readers to understand that all of the posted timelines on this thread were one persons interpretation of what LE said to reporters which was the reporters interpretation as well. So you see so much of what some put forth as fact just isn't the case for many of the bits in the timelines. Typically each piece should be sourced which also wouldn't nessesarily make it fact even if they were. All of what you read here is opinion based. Don't be mislead by anyone opinion even if that opinion stems from someone who pretends to know more anout the case than you.

So much info has been lost over this 11 years. I pray for resolve in this case for those that still care about the missing DA.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I think it is important for all the readers to understand that all of the posted timelines on this thread were one persons interpretation of what LE said to reporters which was the reporters interpretation as well. So you see so much of what some put forth as fact just isn't the case for many of the bits in the timelines. Typically each piece should be sourced which also wouldn't nessesarily make it fact even if they were. All of what you read here is opinion based. Don't be mislead by anyone opinion even if that opinion stems from someone who pretends to know more anout the case than you.

So much info has been lost over this 11 years. I pray for resolve in this case for those that still care about the missing DA.

No, that is incorrect. They are reports, from a variety of sources. It is perfectly acceptable to ask if the report is accurate, but it does not change the fact that it is the report.

 

[SuperSmith]

No, that is incorrect. They are reports, from a variety of sources. It is perfectly acceptable to ask if the report is accurate, but it does not change the fact that it is the report.

It's only incorrect in your opinion which you are entitled to have.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's only incorrect in your opinion which you are entitled to have.

No, since this is an incorrect characterization of my posts related to the time lines. Simply put, it is a fact, for example, that others noted RFG behaving uncharacteristically. What that means is subject to interpretation. Only interpretations which run counter to other clues can be eliminated,

As the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts."

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

No, since this is an incorrect characterization of my posts related to the time lines. Simply put, it is a fact, for example, that others noted RFG behaving uncharacteristically. What that means is subject to interpretation. Only interpretations which run counter to other clues can be eliminated,

As the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan said, "You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts."

Well JJ took another trip to lewisburg also took some short looks around to make sure what was what hum opinion facts maybe miss leading statements I think this has it all and how did he leave from lewisburg would this be a saying that the last place a person was seen would that be the place they would still be at ? in that area

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well JJ took another trip to lewisburg also took some short looks around to make sure what was what hum opinion facts maybe miss leading statements I think this has it all and how did he leave from lewisburg would this be a saying that the last place a person was seen would that be the place they would still be at ? in that area

The best way I can explain this that I walk into a room with multiple doors out. Numerous people see walking into the room, there is physical evidence I was in the room. When people go into the room, I'm not in it. I had to get out of the room, somehow. I could have walked out of the room on my own; somebody could have dragged me out of the room or forced me out of the room at gun point. Nobody can tell from the evidence.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

JJ, where did you get this "9:00-10:00: Contractor, calls house and speaks to RFG about some repairs to the house."? I have never heard that or read that from any source including you.

From a source familiar with the case.

If you go through some of these time lines, there is some new information.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No press accounts on the anniversary from what I can find.

 

[Fromthedeepestjungle]

The best way I can explain this that I walk into a room with multiple doors out. Numerous people see walking into the room, there is physical evidence I was in the room. When people go into the room, I'm not in it. I had to get out of the room, somehow. I could have walked out of the room on my own; somebody could have dragged me out of the room or forced me out of the room at gun point. Nobody can tell from the evidence.

Ya that be like being trusted enough going into a safe house and not able to walk out of it in the day light and no return

 

[SuperSmith]

This is exactly what I am trying to advise the readers here of. Without citing your source, if there is one, we have no way of verifying what you put forth as a fact of the case. It's irresponsible and I'm disappointed Websleuths allows it to continue. Until we can verify what you say it will always be your opinion and NOT a fact of the case or timeline. It's like quoting someone for an essay paper and leaving the source of the quote out of the footnotes. FAIL

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This is exactly what I am trying to advise the readers here of. Without citing your source, if there is one, we have no way of verifying what you put forth as a fact of the case. It's irresponsible and I'm disappointed Websleuths allows it to continue. Until we can verify what you say it will always be your opinion and NOT a fact of the case or timeline. It's like quoting someone for an essay paper and leaving the source of the quote out of the footnotes. FAIL

Well,I cannot what the specifics are from this post. I can, however, point to my track record.

Again, while new information has been added, it is consistent with things already reported.

I would also note that posting on message boards, blogging, or real journalism is not writing a term paper.

 

[Trackergd]

It appears that JoPa and Penn State knew about Sandusky in 1976. What did Ray know? Could this in any way have influenced Ray to go missing or for others to silence him?

http://6abc.com/news/insurer-says-child-told-paterno-in-76-sandusky-molested-him/1326055/