PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #5

[nittany90]

Tell me more about LE moving the mini before the dogs arrived at the SOS parking lot. I hadn't come across that before. If that's true, no wonder the dogs didn't alert "beyond the car".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Tell me more about LE moving the mini before the dogs arrived at the SOS parking lot. I hadn't come across that before. If that's true, no wonder the dogs didn't alert "beyond the car".

Both the witnesses (3-4) that saw RFG across from the Packwood Museum in the early afternoon, and those who saw him in the SoS lot (at least 2), saw him moving the Mini back and forth. There may not be anything nefarious in that.

 

[nittany90]

Both the witnesses (3-4) that saw RFG across from the Packwood Museum in the early afternoon, and those who saw him in the SoS lot (at least 2), saw him moving the Mini back and forth. There may not be anything nefarious in that.

LOL, JJ. I wanted to know more about LE removing the mini before the dogs arriving at the SOS parking lot, not about witnesses reporting that Gricar moved the mini.

But, while you're here, can u give me a cite on Judge Grine being the witness than corroborated Carolyn Fenton's sighting??

 

[nittany90]

.....and how you know the witness who saw Gricar at Raystown Lake was a doctor.....

TIA!

 

[Nowisthetime]

Tell me more about LE moving the mini before the dogs arrived at the SOS parking lot. I hadn't come across that before. If that's true, no wonder the dogs didn't alert "beyond the car".

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...ton&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

The Mini was found on the SoS lot on 04/16, approx. 6:30 PM.
It was then loaded onto a lowboy trailer & moved from the SoS lot to PSP headquarters for examination.
The dogs didn't arrive until 04/17, after the Mini had been removed.

(More will follow.)

 

[Nowisthetime]

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache...ton&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

The Mini was found on the SoS lot on 04/16, approx. 6:30 PM.
It was then loaded onto a lowboy trailer & moved from the SoS lot to PSP headquarters for examination.
The dogs didn't arrive until 04/17, after the Mini had been removed.

(More will follow.)

Times Leader/AP Wire, Mark Scolforo
Sunday, 04/17/05

BELLEFONTE, Pa. - Police on Saturday found the car of Centre County's top prosecutor but no sign of the missing man, who failed to return home from a drive the day before, authorities said.

Bellefonte Police Chief Duane Dixon said state police found the red and white Mini Cooper belonging to District Attorney Ray F. Gricar, 59, of Bellefonte, at about 6:30 p.m. in a dirt parking lot on the outskirts of Lewisburg in Union County.
(snip)

Dixon said he planned to head to Lewisburg on Sunday to look at a surveillance tape from the store and talk to the owner. A police dog might be brought to the parking lot to try to pick up a scent, he said.

 

[txsleuth]

also this from FreeRepublic comments

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1385294/posts

To: TheOtherOne
I'd not seen this story til this morning, but since I'm a local I decided to get a couple pics for anyone interested.

(No one answered the phone at the local paper so a bit of guesswork was involved and if you're not satisfied I'll gladly refund your entire viewing fee)

Had to go to Walmart last night and on the route through Lewisburg (along Water St.) that avoids Saturday night town traffic I saw 5-6 cops standing outside their cars across from what the clueless AP writer called an 'antique store' on the 'outskirts' of town.
The LEO-mobiles I saw consisted of a couple staties, a couple locals, and an unmarked or two. The guys were standing around in the 'dirt lot' (actually gravel-covered) talking and it struck me at the time as a huddle prior to swooping somewhere.

The location is actually on the east end of L'burg, next to the river, and the 'store' is a large building formerly owned by Pennsylvania House Furniture, currently called the 'Street of Shops' and home to around 40 craft/antique vendors frequented mainly by tourists/folks visiting Bucknell kids/etc.

The first pic is the lot where all the cops were and where the car is said to have been found (on the left, with the 'store' across the street).

On the way back home after snapping that one, the thought occurred that if the car had been taken anywhere it'd likely be to the local State Police barracks, which is about a 1/2mi from my house, and voila, one red MiniCooper.

So, the car was taken to the Barracks Saturday night per this local.

The dogs were brought in to search the lot on Sunday.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

LOL, JJ. I wanted to know more about LE removing the mini before the dogs arriving at the SOS parking lot, not about witnesses reporting that Gricar moved the mini.

Sometime Saturday evening. The dogs were brought in around noon Sunday.

But, while you're here, can u give me a cite on Judge Grine being the witness than corroborated Carolyn Fenton's sighting??

I think a link is in the comments for the blog on it. It was reported in the Q & A and in PB's old blog. I also checked with PB.

Note Grine stated that he saw RFG in a car not the Mini on either 4/14 or 4/15. It is not absolute corroboration.

Edit: Here is the link http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache...+"Just+Gricar"+Grine&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The "doctor" was reported in PB's blog, though there was an earlier account that RFG was seen at Lake Raystown.

 

[nittany90]

A big thank you to everyone who posted the cites.

 

[nittany90]

The "doctor" was reported in PB's blog, though there was an earlier account that RFG was seen at Lake Raystown.

Yes. I'd already tracked down the sighting at Raystown Lake -- I just couldn't find any official source regarding the "doctor".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes. I'd already tracked down the sighting at Raystown Lake -- I just couldn't find any official source regarding the "doctor".

I'd discussed that with him before disclosure and that was the only thing he'd heard.

A "doctor" could refer to a Ph D., which is fairly common in the area, so I'm not sure it was a physician. That's my guess, not PB's.

I'll say this, PB knew this case cold and had great contacts.

 

[nittany90]

I'd discussed that with him before disclosure and that was the only thing he'd heard.

A "doctor" could refer to a Ph D., which is fairly common in the area, so I'm not sure it was a physician. That's my guess, not PB's.

I'll say this, PB knew this case cold and had great contacts.

I'm in no way discounting or downplaying Bosak's knowledge or sources, (some of the best, most in-depth articles were by his hand) but did the identity of the witness show up in any published articles, officially attributed to LE? Call me a skeptic. Just because it shows up in a blog, does not make it so. That said, I also understand that sometime, you have your sources "off record" and this may be one of those cases.

I have a source "off record" who says FBI is more involved than the public is aware of.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm in no way discounting or downplaying Bosak's knowledge or sources, (some of the best, most in-depth articles were by his hand) but did the identity of the witness show up in any published articles, officially attributed to LE? Call me a skeptic. Just because it shows up in a blog, does not make it so. That said, I also understand that sometime, you have your sources "off record" and this may be one of those cases.

I have a source "off record" who says FBI is more involved than the public is aware of.

Nothing published outside of the blog, but I know his source.

The FBI has been involved, but so far as I've heard, they were not interrogating or evaluating the PA witnesses. I could see where they might have greater involvement, though I have not heard of any.

 

[nittany90]

Nothing published outside of the blog, but I know his source.

The FBI has been involved, but so far as I've heard, they were not interrogating or evaluating the PA witnesses. I could see where they might have greater involvement, though I have not heard of any.

Sorry. I didn't mean to connect FBI involvement directly to the PA witnesses (or any witness, for that matter) - simply to the investigation itself.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Sorry. I didn't mean to connect FBI involvement directly to the PA witnesses (or any witness, for that matter) - simply to the investigation itself.

The question regarding the witnesses has been raised elsewhere. Even early on, the FBI was involved in the monitoring of some accounts.

 

[nittany90]

also this from FreeRepublic comments

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1385294/posts

To: TheOtherOne
I'd not seen this story til this morning, but since I'm a local I decided to get a couple pics for anyone interested.

(No one answered the phone at the local paper so a bit of guesswork was involved and if you're not satisfied I'll gladly refund your entire viewing fee)

Had to go to Walmart last night and on the route through Lewisburg (along Water St.) that avoids Saturday night town traffic I saw 5-6 cops standing outside their cars across from what the clueless AP writer called an 'antique store' on the 'outskirts' of town.
The LEO-mobiles I saw consisted of a couple staties, a couple locals, and an unmarked or two. The guys were standing around in the 'dirt lot' (actually gravel-covered) talking and it struck me at the time as a huddle prior to swooping somewhere.

The location is actually on the east end of L'burg, next to the river, and the 'store' is a large building formerly owned by Pennsylvania House Furniture, currently called the 'Street of Shops' and home to around 40 craft/antique vendors frequented mainly by tourists/folks visiting Bucknell kids/etc.

The first pic is the lot where all the cops were and where the car is said to have been found (on the left, with the 'store' across the street).

On the way back home after snapping that one, the thought occurred that if the car had been taken anywhere it'd likely be to the local State Police barracks, which is about a 1/2mi from my house, and voila, one red MiniCooper.

So, the car was taken to the Barracks Saturday night per this local.

The dogs were brought in to search the lot on Sunday.

P'gal --
I'd love to see the photos the local took. They're not available on the link anymore.

 

[nittany90]

I posted these questions originally on another board, but duplicating my post here for more insight.

Does anyone know what medical condition Steve Sloane suffered from, for which he was on medical leave, during the time of Gricar's disappearance?

And what do we know about his friend, Ed Walker?

Links, please.

And, does anyone know if anything significant came to light during the investigation from December, 2005 to March, 2006 to make Lara believe Gricar was not coming back? Enough to petition the PA Supreme Court, asking that they de-activate his PA license? Only a few months after working to have it re-instated (December, 2005) after it was automatically de-activated in November for non-payment in July, 2005? Something so significant to make her actively seek the de-activation rather than simply allowing it to automatically de-activate again if she failed to pay the $175 renewal fee by July 1, 2006 (just a few months later)? Wasn't it still being reported in March, that LG still believed her father was alive?

Or was it something so simple, that since he hadn't been around to earn his 12 hours of continuing education over the last year, that she thought she should be proactive and cancel his bar license? Doesn't seem the rational action of someone who even held onto the slightest hope that her father was still alive, and coming back.

And if not, what happened between December, 2005 to March, 2006, to change her mind that Gricar wasn't coming back?

Is it significant or irrelevant to the investigation?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You asked so nice, I'll say it twice.

I don't have a link, but TG mentioned a car accident in regard to the 2005 injury.

For EW, you might want to check the alumni directory.

It involved the continuing education requirement. http://s2.excoboard.com/exco/thread....hreadid=737159

I might suggest you read the quote from their attorney in full.

 

[Nowisthetime]

Have any of the posters or lurkers to this board ever seen a link to this:

"Second, by all accounts, there were people in the home before RFG was reported missing, for hours."

If so, would you please post the link. Thanks.