PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #6

[ThePhantom]

I have a question -- did RG have any skills or hobbies outside of his regular profession through which he could earn money? Is it possible he ever placed a personal ad looking for a kindred spirit with whom to "escape?" Did he have any interests few knew about, or did everyone know pretty much everything about him -- dreams/ambitions he once had -- the proverbial path not taken, etc.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well the dogs only circled the mini in the lot so common sense would say he got into another vehicle as per Det Z.

No, they trailed his scent for about 20 yards.

JJ money only lasts for so long and even his nephew does not see all this money missing as you are saying.

"He was making a fair amount of money; but, at least from a forensic accounting standpoint, the thought is there that there should have been more cash." Tony Gricar, 1/25/11.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/25/case-of-missing-pa-district-attorney-ray-gricar-baffles-police/

If LE believed that he had all those funds they would of said that. His best friend SS even said on disappeared ID show that investing to Ray was like talking Chinese. If anyone needs proof of that you can find the episode on utube.

I am not certain if they checked or it it would be released. I am aware of at least one "red flag" submitted to LE regarding finances. It has never been publicly disclosed.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

"devil's advocate" here -- if he committed suicide, where is his body; and, if he was murdered, with whom of a nefarious character did he affiliate and/or what cases did he prosecute that would result in his murder?

I don't believe you can rule out a personal motive for murder. I think it would be a more likely motive.

Was he a transparent man? Did he have a confident? Did he have assets unknown to others or was he completely an open book?

Not transparent and many people don't discuss money.

If you are sick of your life and want to end it or change it, do you care what legacy you leave or who you hurt?

I think it should be made clear that RFG did financially provide for his loved ones. In terms of legacy, his professional live was nearing an end; he wasn't even planning to practice law. He wasn't going to run for anything. His professional/political legacy was written and irrelevant to the rest of his life.

In terms of legacy, disappearing created a legacy. Had RFG resigned and left, we would not be talking about him 6 years later. If he wanted his name in the paper, or to prove that he was smarter that LE and the "chattering class," he did by walking away. I'm far from certain that this is what he did.

How did he get out of Lewisburg - someone drove him....................

Who? Find that, and the case ends.

 

[ThePhantom]

Cloudbuster, thank you very much for posting the youtube videos about the Disappearance segment on RG.

He could've been very depressed, refused to seek help like many people, kept all this despondency and despair to himself, decided to close the loop by erasing then throwing away the computer hard drive, then made his final exit at a moment when no one was looking.

Or, perhaps, he had made an internet connection (very common, alas, even among "older' people), met up with this person and left in her car. It's just wierd that the dogs didn't track him to the river's edge anywhere.

 

[liz b.]

I have a question -- did RG have any skills or hobbies outside of his regular profession through which he could earn money? Is it possible he ever placed a personal ad looking for a kindred spirit with whom to "escape?" Did he have any interests few knew about, or did everyone know pretty much everything about him -- dreams/ambitions he once had -- the proverbial path not taken, etc.

You raise some interesting points. I think a DA would have quite a few enemies, not all of them immediately obvious. I read that Mr.Gricar had a great inteest in antiques. Is it possible that he had a collection which no one knew about ? Coins, or antique jewelry, for example ? Something portable that he could have sold for cash, with no one the wiser.... From the very little that I have read about this, IMO Mr. Gricar left voluntarily, because he wanted to pursue a different life in a different place. He probably had met someone.Online, would be my best guess.... Just some thoughts...

JMO

 

[liz b.]

I wasn't aware that Mr. Gricar's GF had his email passwords... Does anyone know if this was a work email, or did she also know his personal email passwords ? If the latter, why would she need to know them ? Perhaps she only knew some email addys...maybe he had several ? This is really interesting, IMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wasn't aware that Mr. Gricar's GF had his email passwords... Does anyone know if this was a work email, or did she also know his personal email passwords ? If the latter, why would she need to know them ? Perhaps she only knew some email addys...maybe he had several ? This is really interesting, IMO

I'm not sure if she knew his e-mail passwords, but they shared the home computer. His office computer was separate.

Both RFG's home and office computers were analyzed by LE and they've never reported a secret account. That would end up on the the hard drive, even if the account was deleted.

The laptop is a different matter. The hard drive was unreadable.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You raise some interesting points. I think a DA would have quite a few enemies, not all of them immediately obvious. I read that Mr.Gricar had a great inteest in antiques. Is it possible that he had a collection which no one knew about ? Coins, or antique jewelry, for example ? Something portable that he could have sold for cash, with no one the wiser....

He was interested in antique cameras and toys from his youth. It wasn't too portable.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Cloudbuster, thank you very much for posting the youtube videos about the Disappearance segment on RG.

He could've been very depressed, refused to seek help like many people, kept all this despondency and despair to himself, decided to close the loop by erasing then throwing away the computer hard drive, then made his final exit at a moment when no one was looking.

Or, perhaps, he had made an internet connection (very common, alas, even among "older' people), met up with this person and left in her car. It's just wierd that the dogs didn't track him to the river's edge anywhere.

It is weird the dogs never even tracked him into the SOS. On tape 3 or 4 Det Z tells you that he didn't have missing funds. Interestingly Lara does not believe he is alive. Ray only had one source of income and 6 years to live takes money. I can't see Ray living off some new woman from the internet. I can't even see him as a DA taking that risk. Patty seems confident in the video that if Ray didn't want to be with her he would tell her. If Ray found a new love online I honestly believe he would have at least claimed his pension ect. Walking away and having a live Ray out there would be wonderful. i see no proof as of yet.

 

[cloudbuster05]

There are three possible scenarios in the case and, according to Tony Gricar, none really fits.

Runaway: "The runaway doesn't make a lot of sense. It never has," Tony Gricar said. "I guess if you want to oversimplify it -- what's the point? There's been nothing. No scandal tied to the office or anything that would allude to that. If he wanted to do his own thing, why not wait the few months until his scheduled retirement? It really doesn't make much sense."

Homicide: "He was in the midst of being a part of the largest drug ring bust in central PA history -- a heroin deal," Tony Gricar said. "But it was a [small] amount compared to anywhere else, so there was no point to off a prosecutor or, as some have speculated, for him to go into witness protection."

Suicide: "If you want to go the suicide route, anybody can commit suicide," Tony Gricar said. "But there are none of those indicators that typically go along with it. He obviously could have had an undiagnosed or hidden depression -- it obviously runs in the family -- but why?"
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/25/case-of-missing-pa-district-attorney-ray-gricar-baffles-police/

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It is weird the dogs never even tracked him into the SOS. On tape 3 or 4 Det Z tells you that he didn't have missing funds.

Actually, no. DZ noted that there was cash taken from his accounts that was unaccounted for in the last 2 1/2 years. That is quite the same thing.

Lara, interestingly, has not petitioned to have RFG declared dead.

Ray only had one source of income and 6 years to live takes money.

Due to his divorce, there was a liquidation of assets, including their house.

I can't see Ray living off some new woman from the internet. I can't even see him as a DA taking that risk.

What risk? Politically, he wasn't running for anything and wasn't married.

Patty seems confident in the video that if Ray didn't want to be with her he would tell her. If Ray found a new love online I honestly believe he would have at least claimed his pension ect.

As noted, his pension would be left for his daughter.

 

[cloudbuster05]

JJ thats all your opinion, which I do not share. I been on board with this case since 4-17-2005 and I do know alot about who thinks what. No need to get the eraser of the pencil out each time I bring up anything non related to walk away.
In the past I have looked at walk away even with you. Im now looking at foul play. I also spent alot of time in the walk away scenario and the suicide scenario. I wonder what would change if suddenly LE started looking at this as foul play? That would be harder he had alot of cases.

 

[liz b.]

I'm not sure if she knew his e-mail passwords, but they shared the home computer. His office computer was separate.

Both RFG's home and office computers were analyzed by LE and they've never reported a secret account. That would end up on the the hard drive, even if the account was deleted.

The laptop is a different matter. The hard drive was unreadable.

JJ,
IMO, Mr. Gricar had some secrets on his laptop which he had no wish to share. IF he did meet someone online, it may well have been visible on the laptop. I can think of one or two scenarios which could have occured that he would not have wished to discuss with his family or his colleagues...

I can't see him being murdered because of a case. Not saying it never happens,but IMO it is relatively rare.

If he did walk away, I agree that it is strange that he would do something like this just before his retirement. I can't make sense of that...

JMO

 

[ThePhantom]

Well, if it was foul play, it would have been a set up right? Because it was Mr. G. who did all that research on how to fry a hard drive, etc., and then it was Mr. G. who drove away on his own accord, taking that lap top with him -- and he apparently did something to it besides waterlog it because even that top notch lab couldn't find anything on it. So did he meet someone online who turned out to be someone with criminal intent -- or -- what are other ways someone may have lured him out there? Do we really know if he was looking forward to retirement? After all, his brother said he was going to pick up mulch and then purportedly killed himself. Thoughts?

 

[ThePhantom]

I keep thinking about that one man's statement on Disappeared -- that if Mr. G. went into the river, he could have gotten caught up in that one rough section and never be found. darn.

 

[cloudbuster05]

Well, if it was foul play, it would have been a set up right? Because it was Mr. G. who did all that research on how to fry a hard drive, etc., and then it was Mr. G. who drove away on his own accord, taking that lap top with him -- and he apparently did something to it besides waterlog it because even that top notch lab couldn't find anything on it. So did he meet someone online who turned out to be someone with criminal intent -- or -- what are other ways someone may have lured him out there? Do we really know if he was looking forward to retirement? After all, his brother said he was going to pick up mulch and then purportedly killed himself. Thoughts?

I don't know why they keep saying Roy was going to get a bag of mulch but if you ask his son Tony he was on his way to pick up the youngest son at a school function. I think Ray knew someone wanted what was on the laptop and I found one of his cases where this holds some validity. The case started before Roys drowning and continued on past Rays disappearance. The woman would be known to Ray. My bet is on the woman was followed which lead them to the opportunity of getting Ray. She may not know she was followed but the possibility is there. The meadows psychiatric Hospital is in Centre Hall which is interesting because I can see the need for Ray to have went there. I can also see why wanted the laptop destroyed, I thin it was becoming a problem. Happy Mothers Day weekend to all moms!!!!

 

[cloudbuster05]

I keep thinking about that one man's statement on Disappeared -- that if Mr. G. went into the river, he could have gotten caught up in that one rough section and never be found. darn.

That is possible. Hard to think about but could be true.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I keep thinking about that one man's statement on Disappeared -- that if Mr. G. went into the river, he could have gotten caught up in that one rough section and never be found. darn.

That section involved an inflatable dam, and the dam wasn't inflated that day, or so I'm told.

 

[RTC]

I cant get my mind of this case. I searched the internet all week and found so much info and lot of other forums, articles etc. RG seems like a very decent man. I know I posted that if he walked away it was because of something illegal but I wrote that because I dont think he would walk unless he was ashamed by something. I dont think he walked.

He does sound a bit suicidal. What is hard, is that suicide is very common, it can come on suddenly and surprise everyone near He doesnt need to be clinically depressed, crazy,nada. Just life swallowed him up in an impulsive minute/weeks.

Sounds like he had alot of failed relationships, the loss of his parents, his brother, which sounds like he never came to terms with, and then he had to be strong for the nephews, his work load etc.... Maybe a paranoid obsession starting taking over his thoughts, making day to day life harder. I have read that his emotions never showed, but that he was a compassionate man. A generous man.

How many guys move into their gfriends house , pay off their mortgage and buy them a car??? A guy that carries more than their load. Maybe his load was too heavy in his mind.
I am the kind of poster, that reads blogs like a book, I get a story and read everything I can find on the internet and then make my own opinion and move on until a new revelation. Haha lot of internet posters/characters pointed out in this case
IMHO , this is an impulsive suicide. He looks so worked in his last photos. Im not sure that google had aerial in 2005 re mapping, but I was creeped out to be able to pull up Water street and see it, along with the bridge, the fact you can walk behind the SOS and reach the water etc.
He could have parked at the museum, walked out on the bridge, threw the laptop, moved the car, smoked a cig, shopped at the shop, chatted with a beautiful woman, walked out back threw the hardrive, and walked to his destiny. I find it interesting that the river was exceptionally high that time of year.

 

[ThePhantom]

Your summation fits my initial belief to the "T" I just don't want to believe it's true. Ditto about the "Water Street" sign -- that gave me a shiver too...