PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[SeekingJana]

J.J., you said: "That is basically the area I think they should be checking."
Meaning the wooded area past the banks of the far side of the Susq. River.

Sadly, as hard as it is for me to admit, I think they should be doubling up their efforts to find either his body or him, alive, whatever may be. For God's sake, bring in the FBI, bring in TES, I don't care, just get it DONE and DO it now and DO it right!!!!! There is now a LEGALLY COMPELLING REASON TO FIND OUT IF RAY GRICAR WAS MURDERED!!!! ( Sandusky child sex abuse case- victim #6)

Llike you, J.J., I think the most logical place to search is the wooded area beyond the riverbanks.
It just fits with the KISS theory..
Much more than the walkaway theory does, sad to say.
You have no idea how hard it is for me to get to the point of saying what I know needs to be done! It HURTS!

Maria

 

[Bellaneph]

Ironically, while I was leaving my last post today, I was interrupted by my boyfriend who needed a ride. I took my car to get his car. He got out of my car and went to his car. It took him 30 min to do what he had to do. Meanwhile, I waited. I was bored, so I smoked a cigarette. I put the window down 2.75 inches. I have found that between 2-3 inches is perfect so that when you're driving, the ashes don't blow back in the car.

Since I wasn't moving, this usually wouldn't be necessary, but today was particularly windy, so it had to be down the same length as if I was driving as I found out when I first went to ash and it blew back in the car....

Anyway, he got his car and I was in mine and we drove 1/2 mile to Target to park his car so we could go out for the night in 1 car. Then at Target, he got into my car and we drove off leaving his car at Target 1/2 mile away from where his car was in the first place.

It clicked, to me, as we drove away (because RG was still on my mind anyway) that this same kind of scenario might have been what happened with RG. How he left Lewisburg was he got into the "other" car- (the silver car he'd been seen in earlier?) and he left his car after he moved it. He probably didn't mind someone smoking in it, because he wasn't gonna use it again anyway, so who cares at that point. Besides, if the owner of the other car smoked, it's not like he could say anything.

It's not surprising to me no one has come forward. If the meeting with the "woman" was innocent or not related, she would have come forth by now with all this attention on the matter. We know she "exists" because we've seen video and there were a few witnesses iirc. So, if she knows nothing, why hasn't she come forward by now? It's because she knows something and she doesn't want to get involved, betray Ray, whatever.

 

[eriklatranyi]

How does RFG get from the parking lot to the wooded area without a trail that the dogs could follow?

That would imply RFG was carried into the woods, from an open, public parking lot.

Then, that would imply RFG was knocked out in the parking lot (without blood).

Transfer to another car seems far more plausible, given the evidence we have.

 

[Waupalani St.]

The mini was a gift to Ray, and registered in Patty's name? Was that done at time of purchase or changed later? What did the personalized license plate say?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

How does RFG get from the parking lot to the wooded area without a trail that the dogs could follow?

That would imply RFG was carried into the woods, from an open, public parking lot.

Then, that would imply RFG was knocked out in the parking lot (without blood).

Transfer to another car seems far more plausible, given the evidence we have.

It is possible for a scent not to last. The skin rafts, the thing that the dog detects, can be broken down by a number of things, including sunlight. And yes, if you check Weather Underground, 4/16 was sunny.

Car exhaust can do it as well. One guy who was a dog handler claimed it wouldn't, and then claimed he could use a pendulum on an aerial photographs to locate a body. (We discussed this on other sites incessantly.)

It is possible that RFG left the parking lot on foot and that the dog couldn't detect his scent beyond the parking lot. It is not likely.

And yes, it is a lot more likely that RFG got into another car. The question is, where did that car take him? To a new life or an afterlife?

He could have been forced in at gunpoint. He could have been tricked.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The mini was a gift to Ray, and registered in Patty's name? Was that done at time of purchase or changed later? What did the personalized license plate say?

The Mini was RFG's gift to PEF, technically. It was more like RFG's gift to RFG. He paid for it outright, but it always in her name. He drove it almost exclusively.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Ironically, while I was leaving my last post today, I was interrupted by my boyfriend who needed a ride. I took my car to get his car. He got out of my car and went to his car. It took him 30 min to do what he had to do. Meanwhile, I waited. I was bored, so I smoked a cigarette. I put the window down 2.75 inches. I have found that between 2-3 inches is perfect so that when you're driving, the ashes don't blow back in the car.

Since I wasn't moving, this usually wouldn't be necessary, but today was particularly windy, so it had to be down the same length as if I was driving as I found out when I first went to ash and it blew back in the car....

Anyway, he got his car and I was in mine and we drove 1/2 mile to Target to park his car so we could go out for the night in 1 car. Then at Target, he got into my car and we drove off leaving his car at Target 1/2 mile away from where his car was in the first place.

It clicked, to me, as we drove away (because RG was still on my mind anyway) that this same kind of scenario might have been what happened with RG. How he left Lewisburg was he got into the "other" car- (the silver car he'd been seen in earlier?) and he left his car after he moved it. He probably didn't mind someone smoking in it, because he wasn't gonna use it again anyway, so who cares at that point. Besides, if the owner of the other car smoked, it's not like he could say anything.

The only things that I'll note are that:

A. The report of RFG behind the courthouse on 4/15 is questionable. 4/14 might be just as strong.

B. It was a "metallic colored car" but not necessary a silver one.

It's not surprising to me no one has come forward. If the meeting with the "woman" was innocent or not related, she would have come forth by now with all this attention on the matter. We know she "exists" because we've seen video and there were a few witnesses iirc. So, if she knows nothing, why hasn't she come forward by now? It's because she knows something and she doesn't want to get involved, betray Ray, whatever.

I don't know of any video on her and I only know of one witness that saw her (granted, there might be more).

The LMW might have just been a shopper that struck up a conversation with RFG; it is possible that she doesn't realize that she is the LMW. While there were mentions of her on-line and in a Cleveland Free Times story, there was neither local or national coverage of her until May 2006. If it was innocent, she might never have made the connection that she was the LMW.

 

[Waupalani St.]

The Mini was RFG's gift to PEF, technically. It was more like RFG's gift to RFG. He paid for it outright, but it always in her name. He drove it almost exclusively.

What was on the vanity plate? I hear "minicooper w vanity plate" to describe the car, but even w a quick google search, I can't find it...

TY

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What was on the vanity plate? I hear "minicooper w vanity plate" to describe the car, but even w a quick google search, I can't find it...

TY

PFO

P Fo', like J Lo'.

 

[minazoe]

I simply cannot believe a ground search was never done. He could have hung himself in those woods...He could have been executed . God god....and now they have ( in the midst of all this Sandusky business) declared him dead. No Cadaver dogs?

ok. whatever. i guess....why not...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I simply cannot believe a ground search was never done. He could have hung himself in those woods...He could have been executed . God god....and now they have ( in the midst of all this Sandusky business) declared him dead. No Cadaver dogs?

ok. whatever. i guess....why not...

None officially, from what I've heard. Some people sort of looked, but no official search. LE focused on the river.

A pastor, facing charges of indecent assault, walked away from Lewisburg home. He was found hanging in the woods about 11 months later, fairly close to where he was seen.

Rev. Jose Rosa, 52 missing 5/21/09 ~ 5/24/09, Lewisburg, Pa [REMAINS FOUND] - Help Find The Missing

And in fairness, it wasn't in the midst of the Sandusky scandal; they were some indications it was coming. I really never expected this.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In the 1998 incident, Pennsylvania's Open Lewdness statute will be a key point. The question will be if Sandusky committed the act of open lewdness and if he could have been charged under the "open lewdness" clause of Unlawful Contact with Minor.http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/crimes-and-offenses/00.063.018.000.html

Here is the type of things where DA's will charge "open lewdness." http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_19332643

It is strange, but there was no suggestion of anything sexual.

I've been looking at PA court decisions over the weekend (and attended a sorority thing of a friend). The describe the incidents, and range from appalling to hilarious.

 

[Pensfan]

Although RG was interested in antiques, I never saw a "missing-have you seen this man" flyer for him. I am also a long-term addict of junktique/antiques and I help a friend with her two large antique booths in antique malls located within 60 miles of State College. PA. No flyers were posted there for RG. None. I have helped with several antique shows each summer in this area for a decade and I never saw a flyer for RG posted at these either. None.

I am not sure that the daughter looked very hard for her dad. I don't think she wanted people to find him or she knew he was dead. He had recently busted a huge narcotics ring.

RG disappeared 7 years after Sandusky's case was brought to the attention of campus police and then to the DA's office. SEVEN YEARS. It is not logical to assume his disappearance had anything to do with Sandusky. It is logical to assume that his disappearance had everything to do with disrupting a large narcotics operation.

Read the similarities between RG's disappearance and another nearby DA that also disappeared after disrupting a narcotics ring. His body was eventually located though. He had been tortured before his murder.
http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_similarities_w_luna_gricar.htm
http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_another_missing_PA_prosecutor_2.htm

 

[J. J. in Phila]

He had recently busted a huge narcotics ring.

Except RFG hadn't busted the ring. The AG's Office did. The only thing RFG did was show up at a press conference with ten other DA's.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

http://people.howstuffworks.com/witness-protection1.htm

Hello to All. Some of our recent discussion related to whether RG could be in a Federal Witness Protection Program (the WPP matter, as we have been referring to it). First, I hope I have entered the link correctly, but I want to bring to light here, that there ARE "State" related guidelines, that could very well fall under the blanket of WPP ! That seems to broaden scope for RG to "qualify" for such program. Thanks to all, as I may have to edit the URL, if does not post correctly...

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Except RFG hadn't busted the ring. The AG's Office did. The only thing RFG did was show up at a press conference with ten other DA's.

Excellent point, JJ ... some time back, I had read a previous post of yours, on same matter, and glad you have brought that forward, once again. That is HUGE !

 

[J. J. in Phila]

http://people.howstuffworks.com/witness-protection1.htm

Hello to All. Some of our recent discussion related to whether RG could be in a Federal Witness Protection Program (the WPP matter, as we have been referring to it). First, I hope I have entered the link correctly, but I want to bring to light here, that there ARE "State" related guidelines, that could very well fall under the blanket of WPP ! That seems to broaden scope for RG to "qualify" for such program. Thanks to all, as I may have to edit the URL, if does not post correctly...

Okay, but what? He wasn't actually a witness to anything, and there has been no prosecution or suggestion that he was? They don't have a prosecutor's protection program.

 

[SeekingJana]

Yeah. Any DA worth his or her salt would have always been a target for retaliation, as mentioned in the link LC posted.
Ray knew that. I'm sure he received threats.

6 years later, we are asking for a ground search. OMG, I feel so utterly SICK about this huge screw up on LE's part!!!

 

[Pensfan]

Except RFG hadn't busted the ring. The AG's Office did. The only thing RFG did was show up at a press conference with ten other DA's.

He was present at the very public announcement that there was a grand jury investigation about the largest heroin ring in his county where HE was the DA....and a few days later, he and his work computer disappeared.

Druggies and drug cartel members are a serious safety concern for DAs, police officers, and judges. ( It is common knowledge where I live (PA) that judges and DAs are armed. There is even a gun called "The Judge". The Judge was not made to be easily concealable. This gun is described as being made for in vehicle use. It is essentially a shotgun that is a revolver. )

 

[ellehill]

I think some new evidence came in on Sandusky and RG was building a case against him. I think he felt awful that he didn't prosecute in 1998 and wasn't going to back down this time.

I feel people higher up in the DA's office, AG's office, State University, maybe Second Mile were directly involved with his dissapearance, or have knowledge of what happened to him. If you look at the people who have lost or are losing their jobs now that the Sandusky case has come to light, those are the people police need to be talking to (the people who held these positions in 2005).

I think Ray was followed to Lewisburg or was planning on meeting someone to discuss the case, someone he knew & trusted. I don't think he would get in a vehicle with a random person/drug informant, and for somebody to pull a gun in a parking lot in broad daylight to force him in a vehicle would be risky. Also, if it was drug related I don't think they would be concerned with the body being found and he would've turned up by now.

Did anyone in the DA's office smoke? Have they tested the cigarettes found at the scene for DNA from anyone in his office? I think part of the cover-up was to make it look like RG walked away or committed suicide. I think they destroyed his laptop in case it had any incriminating evidence on it, shredded any files in the office and removed data from his office computer...easy to do if it was an inside job. I am dumbfounded at how many people seem to be involved with the Sandusky cover-up, that I don't discount the idea that this could've been an inside job.