PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[Lord_Chatterly]

On March 16, 2009, a fellow blogger and former police officer, Slamdunk, posted a blog about the Montandon Marsh area as a possible place for the body.

http://theslamdunktrove.blogspot.com/2009/03/part-xi-ray-gricar-missing-person.html

On March 17, 2010, I wrote a blog about checking a two mile radius on the east side of the Lewisburg Bridge, which includes the Montandon Marsh.

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/03/17/2397229/roads-not-taken-the-bridgehead.html

On November 21, 2011, as far as I know, it has not been checked.

Thanks for bringing this to the forefront again, JJ. That whole area looks really mysterious.

 

[Pensfan]

On March 16, 2009, a fellow blogger and former police officer, Slamdunk, posted a blog about the Montandon Marsh area as a possible place for the body.

http://theslamdunktrove.blogspot.com/2009/03/part-xi-ray-gricar-missing-person.html

On March 17, 2010, I wrote a blog about checking a two mile radius on the east side of the Lewisburg Bridge, which includes the Montandon Marsh.

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/03/17/2397229/roads-not-taken-the-bridgehead.html

On November 21, 2011, as far as I know, it has not been checked.

There are a lot of deer, elk, black bear, and game bird hunters in this area. If he is there, someone did a heck of a job hiding his body for the numerous hunters to not have found it.

 

[twinkiesmom]

Here is a photo: http://media.centredaily.com/smedia...rRay4.aurora_standalone.prod_affiliate.42.jpg

I you don't know, LG is in the center, PEF is on her right. Who would you say that is on her left (the rightmost woman on the photo)?

I'm going to guess that is Lara's mother Barbara Gray based on the similarity to the following linkedin photo:
http://m4.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/shrink_100_100/p/1/000/075/0b8/0ca1ebb.jpg

 

[Pensfan]

Here some information about the cigs in PA. They are everywhere on the ground because Pennsylvania has a much higher than the national average number of cig smokers. Also, if RG entered any bar on that date, he and his car would definitely smell of cig smoke.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There are a lot of deer, elk, black bear, and game bird hunters in this area. If he is there, someone did a heck of a job hiding his body for the numerous hunters to not have found it.

Maybe not. I cited the case of Rev. Jose Rosa a few posts ago. His body was found hanging in a wooded area outside Lewisburg about 11 months after he disappeared. That was after hunting season.

The wetland area has a lot of ponds. You could get a lot of places for a body to go hidden.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Here some information about the cigs in PA. They are everywhere on the ground because Pennsylvania has a much higher than the national average number of cig smokers. Also, if RG entered any bar on that date, he and his car would definitely smell of cig smoke.

That actually is a very good point. He could have been in a bar, picked up the scent and brought it back into the car.

 

[TallCoolOne]

That actually is a very good point. He could have been in a bar, picked up the scent and brought it back into the car.

Except that would not explain the ashes in the car.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Except that would not explain the ashes in the car.

He could have picked it up there.

There is not any evidence that anyone sat in the car for a long time in the car and smoked. It was a very tiny piece of ash.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Here some information about the cigs in PA. They are everywhere on the ground because Pennsylvania has a much higher than the national average number of cig smokers. Also, if RG entered any bar on that date, he and his car would definitely smell of cig smoke.

Yes, and the alleged Wilkes-Barre sighting in a bar with one who looks like RFG, smoking, and not an experienced smoker, as had been described. In spite of that sighting having been ruled out, there is something here that certainly does connect with cigarette smoking. Just a thought. Allow me to ponder further. Thanks.

 

[Waupalani St.]

I just did some panning around on Google Earth, for the area that you have described. That entire area, just beyond East Lewisburg is eery looking at best. There also seems to be some sort of quarry operation there with possible buildings that may have dock doors. Wish I could provide link to what I looked at...best bet, run Google Earth for Lewisburg, pan across river at the bridge, and look South in a line parallel to the river. That place really jumped out at me...even scarier looking was the date of the satellite imagery...3-31-05...one can even see the vehicles parked at this 'facility'. Chills...ty. Go look for yourselves.

That date is eerie...in just a little more than two weeks...wow no telling what clues...when did google street view cameras drive by???

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

That date is eerie...in just a little more than two weeks...wow no telling what clues...when did google street view cameras drive by???

Just thinking about maps and such, I recall reading that RFG had made a Mapquest on his home computer for going from Bellfonte to Lewisburg, a trip he already knew. I wonder if he needed to email that, or describe that (possibly by cell phone...Tracphone ?) to someone who did not know the area very well. RFG's focus on Lewisburg beforehand is paramount here. There is either the arranged meeting with another, or a connection he had with someone there, not just the antiquing thing...just something. Was RFG known to be a Mason ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just thinking about maps and such, I recall reading that RFG had made a Mapquest on his home computer for going from Bellfonte to Lewisburg, a trip he already knew. I wonder if he needed to email that, or describe that (possibly by cell phone...Tracphone ?) to someone who did not know the area very well. RFG's focus on Lewisburg beforehand is paramount here. There is either the arranged meeting with another, or a connection he had with someone there, not just the antiquing thing...just something.

I think it is very likely something was scheduled for Lewisburg, or that he gave the directions to someone unfamiliar with how to get there.

Was RFG known to be a Mason ?

No. He was not known to be a member of any social or fraternal groups.

He was Catholic, but a nonpracticing one.

 

[eriklatranyi]

There are a lot of deer, elk, black bear, and game bird hunters in this area. If he is there, someone did a heck of a job hiding his body for the numerous hunters to not have found it.

There are no elk in this area and I do not believe a bear has been harvested within 10 miles of Lewisburg.

You are correct that many deer, small game and waterfowl hunters go through this area (including some fishermen). Many bodies have been found by hunters in the past.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There are no elk in this area and I do not believe a bear has been harvested within 10 miles of Lewisburg.

You are correct that many deer, small game and waterfowl hunters go through this area (including some fishermen). Many bodies have been found by hunters in the past.

Would it being a protected wetland make a difference?

 

[SeekingJana]

Unless his body was buried well and animals might have dug up some bone or bones, wouldn't there be nothing of his remains left after this length of time in a place where huge elk and bears and stuff live?

Also, there have been MANY floods in that area in the past 6 years. What's the chance that the floods would not wash a bone,at least 1 of 206 bones, somewhere into civilization?

And one thing I thought of last night late while watching the Investigation Discovery channel--- The press conference photo with 1 of RG's ex wives, his daughter, and PF.
WHAT IF a personally motivated crime occurred, and just because of Mr. Gricar's professional career, persons of interest in an up close and personal killing might be overlooked? ( Note- I know NOTHING about the 2nd ex wife, do not know where she lives, and am not impugning her at all in wondering if either she or the 1st wife might have been checked out?)

Personally I don't think anyone was checked well for anything other than the LG and PF polygraphs. OR we have never been told much.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Unless his body was buried well and animals might have dug up some bone or bones, wouldn't there be nothing of his remains left after this length of time in a place where huge elk and bears and stuff live?

The scent might remain; there might be some fragments. Even then, we could rule out walkaway.

Also, there have been MANY floods in that area in the past 6 years. What's the chance that the floods would not wash a bone,at least 1 of 206 bones, somewhere into civilization?

http://www.centredaily.com/2011/10/02/2936058/edd-and-flow.html The links will give you the information you seek.

You have also convinced me that I have probably written everything I could on the case.

WHAT IF a personally motivated crime occurred, and just because of Mr. Gricar's professional career, persons of interest in an up close and personal killing might be overlooked? ( Note- I know NOTHING about the 2nd ex wife, do not know where she lives, and am not impugning her at all in wondering if either she or the 1st wife might have been checked out?)

You are starting to sound like me.

I basically want the whereabouts of everyone close to RFG over the past 25 years checked out. It's 20-30 people.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Would it being a protected wetland make a difference?

Yes. The Montandon Marsh being protected can be best described as follows, regarding hunting. Consider the following:

The Marsh is owned by Central Builders Supply who mines sand and gravel from the site. Hunting and fishing is not open to the public on the lands, and the acres are bordered by Rt. 405 to the west and a trailer park on the east.

A local university has several on-going educational projects at the Marsh, but the foot traffic to the area is negligible. As one can imagine with faculty and students, they are not consistently roaming the wetlands, but rather collecting soil samples, retrieving measurement information, and performing other low-impact activities so as not to disturb local wildlife. As a result, these folks are not trampling all over the land. The quarry part of the Marsh experiences much more daytime activity—as trucks and workers are present during the week.

Looks like the Montandon Marsh WOULD provide a long term
site for disposing of Ray Gricar's remains.

The following is a link to blog website for the above italics for reference:
http://25missingpersons.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=raygricar&action=display&thread=1012. Thank you.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes. The Montandon Marsh being protected can be best described as follows, regarding hunting. Consider the following:

The Marsh is owned by Central Builders Supply who mines sand and gravel from the site. Hunting and fishing is not open to the public on the lands, and the acres are bordered by Rt. 405 to the west and a trailer park on the east.

A local university has several on-going educational projects at the Marsh, but the foot traffic to the area is negligible. As one can imagine with faculty and students, they are not consistently roaming the wetlands, but rather collecting soil samples, retrieving measurement information, and performing other low-impact activities so as not to disturb local wildlife. As a result, these folks are not trampling all over the land. The quarry part of the Marsh experiences much more daytime activity—as trucks and workers are present during the week.

Looks like the Montandon Marsh WOULD provide a long term
site for disposing of Ray Gricar's remains.

The following is a link to blog website for the above italics for reference:
http://25missingpersons.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=raygricar&action=display&thread=1012. Thank you.

No, thank you!

I think there are places there where someone could hide/bury a body, or where someone could commit suicide and the body would not be found. That would include Montandon Marsh, but would not be limited to it.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

No, thank you!

I think there are places there where someone could hide/bury a body, or where someone could commit suicide and the body would not be found. That would include Montandon Marsh, but would not be limited to it.

Correct. I urge others to read the post I had referenced above...in short, the Montandon Marsh is 500 acres, 77 acres of which are "protected". It amazes me LE has not put forth SOME sort of investigation on the Montandon Marsh. I must admit, just from my Post from yesterday, I have come away somewhat more educated about this area. Ray Gricar's remains in the Montandon Marsh ? Come on LE ...

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Correct. I urge others to read the post I had referenced above...in short, the Montandon Marsh is 500 acres, 77 acres of which are "protected". It amazes me LE has not put forth SOME sort of investigation on the Montandon Marsh. I must admit, just from my Post from yesterday, I have come away somewhat more educated about this area. Ray Gricar's remains in the Montandon Marsh ? Come on LE ...

As far as I know, there have been no official searches of the area east of the bridgehead. If nothing was found, that would certainly lower the already low odds on suicide.