PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #8

[quixote]

The excellent website SportsbyBrooks has done a terrific job covering (and uncovering) the general PSU child rape case.

I don't share your point of view. Brooks historically is a sensationalist, one who often lifts information from others, reports it as his own, and plays the drama card for all it is worth. While he sometimes reports information that turns out to be accurate, his accuracy is comparable to a blind squirrel's ability to occasionally find a nut. I choose not to frequent his site any longer, but it originally was known more for his pictures of young women wearing tight clothing, not for its content or journalistic integrity.

 

[CJMAJORGIRL24]

There was no grand jury in 1998. The evidence that that was gathered in 1998 regarding Victim 6 was taken to the grand jury in 2010-11.

In 1998, the evidence was submitted regarding Victim 6 and B. K. and sent to RFG. He chose not to prosecute. We don't know why RFG chose not to prosecute or to call a grand jury himself, which he also had the power to do.

Very clearly, there was sufficient evidence to prosecute (probable cause), as the AG is prosecuting on that incident, and as Mr. Amendola chose not to challenge the propriety of the charges.

I should note that the charges relating to Victim 6 do not include rape. Only one misdemeanor charge specifically requires that the act be “the purpose of arousing sexual desire in the person or the complainant.” The six other misdemeanors do not. The four felonies does not specifically require it.

I would also point out that the statute was only 5 months old in May of 1998.

Thanks, JJ. Thats what I meant to type. (note to cjmajor-no typin before first cup of coffee) lol) ...He COULD have sent this to the GJ but didn't think there was enough evidence? But he confessed?!?! Sandusky KNEW what he was doing was wrong...

I also wanted to say -I was pretty impressed with the nephew on Dateline, last nite. Didn't he go to Penn State? Did he play football by any chance? And didn't Mr. Gricar's ex -wives both work at Penn St?

 

[stilettos]

Thanks, JJ. Thats what I meant to type. (note to cjmajor-no typin before first cup of coffee) lol) ...He COULD have sent this to the GJ but didn't think there was enough evidence? But he confessed?!?! Sandusky KNEW what he was doing was wrong...

I also wanted to say -I was pretty impressed with the nephew on Dateline, last nite. Didn't he go to Penn State? Did he play football by any chance? And didn't Mr. Gricar's ex -wives both work at Penn St?

Well I really think that may be down to logistics. Half of my graduating class went to UGA as I did...but we grew up in that college town...many of us were joint enrolled there...alot of our families made up of alumni and we had a fast track to available scholarships. Many of us went on to work at UGA in different departments. I can also speak to the football aspect. Football was HUGE in Athens, GA. High School players were passed though they couldn't read or spell, Hershel Walker rode into town with a brand new boat on the back of his new truck. Coach Dooley was an icon and his daughter and I used to sneak into McWhorter Hall when the players used to reside there to play poker and eat steak dinners. I can imagine that this is such a terribly difficult time for those living in the area and going to and working for PennState. They are not the kind of victims as those assaulted by Jerry Sandusky, but they have had their innocence stolen none the less.

 

[Cazzie]

Posting without doing due diligence, atho have tried to read the thread...

Is it possible that he looked away, or was even involved with something illegal? Or was kidnapped/killed becuz he knew something (that he wasn't involved in)? These questions seem like "duh" questions...

And I thought these questions even before the recent connection was revealed.

Tried to record the show last nite but the Universe was against me.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks, JJ. Thats what I meant to type. (note to cjmajor-no typin before first cup of coffee) lol) ...He COULD have sent this to the GJ but didn't think there was enough evidence? But he confessed?!?! Sandusky KNEW what he was doing was wrong...

A grand jury gathers evidence, i.e. it calls people to testify before it. RFG could have applied to a judge to empanel one. I don't know of any case where he used a grand jury, however.

I also wanted to say -I was pretty impressed with the nephew on Dateline, last nite. Didn't he go to Penn State? Did he play football by any chance? And didn't Mr. Gricar's ex -wives both work at Penn St?

Tony did not go to PSU. Tony's brother did attend; he graduated prior to 1998. One ex-wife is a tenured professor at PSU, but has no association with the athletic department. They had divorced at least 6 years prior to 1998. His daughter did not attend PSU.

A lot of people in the area have an association with PSU, either working there or going there. Approximately 2% of the population of Pennsylvania is either a student at or an alumnus of PSU. About 36% of Centre County's population either is a student there or works there. When you factor in alumni, a few retired employees, and a few people that didn't complete their degrees, it might break the 50% mark.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Posting without doing due diligence, atho have tried to read the thread...

Is it possible that he looked away, or was even involved with something illegal? Or was kidnapped/killed becuz he knew something (that he wasn't involved in)? These questions seem like "duh" questions...

And I thought these questions even before the recent connection was revealed.

Tried to record the show last nite but the Universe was against me.

Anything is possible, but I don't like to think about it.

 

[quixote]

Posting without doing due diligence, atho have tried to read the thread...

Is it possible that he looked away, or was even involved with something illegal? Or was kidnapped/killed becuz he knew something (that he wasn't involved in)? These questions seem like "duh" questions...

And I thought these questions even before the recent connection was revealed.

Tried to record the show last nite but the Universe was against me.

Cazzie - I think in these parts the NBC affiliate shows repeats of Dateline. It might be worthwhile to scan your TV listings in the event that you still may be able to watch last evening's show.

 

[quixote]

Being new here, I imagine these things (if accurate) have been discussed before, but a PSU student/writer tweeted these things after last evening's show. I cannot speak to the validity. I share them in case they are worthy of discussion:

Ray Gricar helped shut down a 1.5 million dollar Heroin ring on Jan 11th, 2005. Went missing in April. That seems more likely.

Gricar's disappearance followed a widely distributed DVD titled, "Stop Snitching," in which threaten those that helped Gricar.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Luna also was killed in 2003 during a Heroin investigation while on a similar late-night drive in PA

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Being new here, I imagine these things (if accurate) have been discussed before, but a PSU student/writer tweeted these things after last evening's show. I cannot speak to the validity. I share them in case they are worthy of discussion:

Ray Gricar helped shut down a 1.5 million dollar Heroin ring on Jan 11th, 2005. Went missing in April. That seems more likely.

Gricar's disappearance followed a widely distributed DVD titled, "Stop Snitching," in which threaten those that helped Gricar.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Luna also was killed in 2003 during a Heroin investigation while on a similar late-night drive in PA

I think I know the source, and it is not one I'd regard as reliable. "Midnight Ride?"

 

[quixote]

It is a student named Ben Jones, and he writes for www.statecollege.com, and also on a football blog called "Black Shoe Diaries." I don't know if he was reporting things he's heard from others.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It is a student named Ben Jones, and he writes for www.statecollege.com, and also on a football blog called "Black Shoe Diaries." I don't know if he was reporting things he's heard from others.

It's straight out of Keisling's stuff. Ihave a very low opinion of it, but here is the link: http://www.yardbird.com/midnight_ride_another_missing_PA_prosecutor_1.htm

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Even if Sandusky had been acquitted on all charges, he certainly would have lost his job as defensive coordinator at Penn State and his affiliation with Second Mile. His access to boys would have been severely limited. In the process, however, the reputation of Penn State football would have been damaged, in a much more significant way than the previous cases RFG prosecuted involving Penn State football.

I know the two DAs interviewed on Dateline last night were adamant that RFG didn't flinch. But what if he did? Wouldn't that -- the thought of failing to live up to the Atticus Finch image -- be all the more reason for him to feel ashamed, all the more reason for him to disappear? (I had to throw in the Southern Gothic reference).

I'm speaking more from a pyschological point of view. I have a lot of respect for the command of the subject displayed in this forum, so I'll defer to others on whether the evidence supports such a conclusion.

It seems to be getting more 'difficult' to separate the Sandusky and PSU scandal as separate and apart from the Ray Gricar case. My viewpoint has been to keep focused on the few things we do know of Ray Gricar's disappearance, and allow the PSU thread to unravel those matters within that thread. However, you do raise an interesting thought here, and i commend you. Perhaps the way you have presented this DOES show you also have command of the subject matter here. Many thanks.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Being new here, I imagine these things (if accurate) have been discussed before, but a PSU student/writer tweeted these things after last evening's show. I cannot speak to the validity. I share them in case they are worthy of discussion:

Ray Gricar helped shut down a 1.5 million dollar Heroin ring on Jan 11th, 2005. Went missing in April. That seems more likely.

Gricar's disappearance followed a widely distributed DVD titled, "Stop Snitching," in which threaten those that helped Gricar.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Jonathan Luna also was killed in 2003 during a Heroin investigation while on a similar late-night drive in PA

I concur with JJ's take on this. Still being a 'Newbie' here, I also had read of the "Midnight Ride" that JJ has referenced above, and came to learn that the source was not credible. Also, not being a 'Tweeter' myself, I do not put much credibility on that form of social media, much like SeekingJana had expressed earlier. Lots of junk there.
No harm in asking, Quixote, it is just one of those 'learning curve' things we all go through here. Many thanks.

 

[SeekingJana]

1) I have also tried very hard to separate what is unfolding in the media from Ray's case. However, some people feel very strongly that they are linked.

2) I read the bird in the yard's site years ago, before I posted a word on Ray Gricar, and I was left thinking that it was one person's wild ideas pieced together.
I am very sorry that Jonathan Luna was murdered. Hwever, it seemed to me that someone was trying to make a name for himself by linking the two cases, which, IMO, do not share characteristics at all as far as is known about Ray's case.
As the NBC correspondant said while standing on the banks of the Susquehanna, " This case has no defined crime scene."
Luna's case did have, obviously.

The lack of a crime scene and the liklihood that if Ray was murdered, either no remains or very limited remains will be found someday really make me wonder if his case can ever be solved.
I am starting to think it is a hopeless situation, tragically.

JMO.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

First, I concur with your point regarding the Luna link. There is none.

1) I have also tried very hard to separate what is unfolding in the media from Ray's case. However, some people feel very strongly that they are linked.

I would like to be able to separate the two.

Two things nag me about the link.

1. A direct connection:

Something that happened in regard to the 1998 case caused, at least partially, RFG to vanish in 2005.

2. An indirect connection:

McQueary met with investigators away from the campus while the grand jury was investigating; he did not want to be spotted. Now, McQueary is about 6'5", with bright red hair, and would be easily spotted. I am specifically not referring to him with what I'm going to post.

Could RFG have been meeting with someone who didn't want to be spotted, in some unknown, and possibly high profile case? It would not have been the Sandusky case, but the idea that he might have gone to Lewisburg to see someone who didn't want to be seen talking to the DA seems possible.

 

[BigCat]

It seems to be getting more 'difficult' to separate the Sandusky and PSU scandal as separate and apart from the Ray Gricar case. My viewpoint has been to keep focused on the few things we do know of Ray Gricar's disappearance, and allow the PSU thread to unravel those matters within that thread. However, you do raise an interesting thought here, and i commend you. Perhaps the way you have presented this DOES show you also have command of the subject matter here. Many thanks.

Thanks for the kind words. Currently, I'm devouring everything I can find having to do with the Sandusky case. If I come across info that relates to RFG, I'll pass it along.

Here's an article I found this morning that includes an interview with a detective in the 1998 case:

"At the very minimum, there was enough evidence for some charges, like corruption of minors," Mr. Schreffler said on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Sandusky chose to waive his preliminary hearing on 52 counts that accuse him of molesting 10 boys over the last several years.

Instead, then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar told Mr. Schreffler he could not file charges. The detective said Mr. Gricar gave no explanation.

"You don't question Ray," Mr. Schreffler said, calling him the best prosecutor he'd ever worked with. "Ray was not a person to be intimidated. If he didn't feel the elements were there ..."


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11352/1197680-454.stm#ixzz1gtT87I2h

 

[Tipstaff]

As posted above it gets more difficult to separate the Sandusky story and Mr. Gricar. From this mornings Pittsburgh Post Gazette.


Retired detective describes 1998 Sandusky investigation
Believed charges warranted in case
Sunday, December 18, 2011
By Paula Reed Ward, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Retired University Park Detective Ronald Schreffler believed he had enough evidence in 1998 to charge then-Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky with something after the man admitted to a boy's mother to showering naked with her son.

"At the very minimum, there was enough evidence for some charges, like corruption of minors," Mr. Schreffler said on Wednesday, the day after Mr. Sandusky chose to waive his preliminary hearing on 52 counts that accuse him of molesting 10 boys over the last several years.

Instead, then-Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar told Mr. Schreffler he could not file charges. The detective said Mr. Gricar gave no explanation.

"You don't question Ray," Mr. Schreffler said, calling him the best prosecutor he'd ever worked with. "Ray was not a person to be intimidated. If he didn't feel the elements were there ..."

THE SANDUSKY CASE
» See the PG's coverage
At the time, Mr. Gricar spoke to Mr. Schreffle



Read more: http://postgazette.com/pg/11352/1197680-454.stm#ixzz1gtLZhjYr

 

[Tipstaff]

Thanks for the kind words. Currently, I'm devouring everything I can find having to do with the Sandusky case. If I come across info that relates to RFG, I'll pass it along.

Here's an article I found this morning that includes an interview with a detective in the 1998 case:

Sorry Big Cat........didn't mean to repost. Just missed your post!

 

[AllisonS]

Cazzie - I think in these parts the NBC affiliate shows repeats of Dateline. It might be worthwhile to scan your TV listings in the event that you still may be able to watch last evening's show.

I believe you can watch the whole thing here http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032600/, albeit in sectioned clips.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

This is terrible and sounds familiar, though possibly even worse.

One point was that MTM indicated that he would not expect a file to be in the office.

It also might explain Homeland Security's visits to websites. Mr. Schreffler is with Homeland Security.