PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[OddOneOut]

I have always questioned the "sighting" of Ray moving his car off the street into the lot..it's just such a mundane thing to remember..I just have trouble with it and why the he77 was Ray at the quarry? that's weird and problematic.

I feel like I didn't know this ..maybe we just haven't discussed it in a long time..I guess maybe I didn't think that much of it
because in my state there is a quarry and its a big swimming hole...so cool..anyway just didn't register to me as a big
dried out dust bowl with a building or two..

the quarry is a perfect place to get rid of Ray. mOO

I wonder if they could have just seen the Mini moved and assumed that it was Ray moving it?

 

[minazoe]

I wonder if they could have just seen the Mini moved and assumed that it was Ray moving it?

that's what I'm saying..

 

[Black Diamond]

Interesting that the Mini may have been seen leaving the quarry. Did RG deposit something in the quarry, or did someone deposit RG in the quarry? I wonder if LE confirmed that the Mini was in the quarry. Stone dust residue on the bottom of the Mini would have confirmed this. No forensic accounting was done that JJ and I were able to discover. I had a forensic accountant look at the documents I got under Freedom of Information. It did not make sense to her. I did not have the funds to do a deeper dive.

Complete failure of an investigation by law enforcement.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Any thoughts on Ray having the email of a "Martie Capparelle" written in his calendar? This woman is corporate secretary for TC Transport in Bellefonte, a hauling and delivery trucking service.

In the McChesney diary there's a line that says:

Rumor: JS brought drugs for steroids & disappearance with Gricar - sand supplier connect and may have led to Gricar's disappearance - were players becoming more violent?

Tc Transport delivers sand, among other materials.

Wasn't Gricar spotted near a quarry near Lewisburg?

The quarry in Lewisburg probably does gravel, but RFG was not spotted by it.

The company does gravel and RFG could have been looking for something for his small driveway or possibly snow removal. They would not be delivering anything in pill form; they do bulk materials.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

this is a quesh for jj..was there a forensic accounting? mOO

No, and no to the credit card transactions.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have always questioned the "sighting" of Ray moving his car off the street into the lot..it's just such a mundane thing to remember..I just have trouble with it and why the he77 was Ray at the quarry? that's weird and problematic.

I feel like I didn't know this ..maybe we just haven't discussed it in a long time..I guess maybe I didn't think that much of it
because in my state there is a quarry and its a big swimming hole...so cool..anyway just didn't register to me as a big
dried out dust bowl with a building or two..

the quarry is a perfect place to get rid of Ray. mOO

They saw him moving the car back and forth in the lot.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

S

SuperSmith​

Former Member​

• Sep 27, 2013
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• #20

This was a Q&A session on the CDT.

""Q: Was a search done along state Route 192, the road Gricar said he was on when he was last heard from?

A: Bellefonte police officer Darrel Zaccagni said both state Route 192 and state Route 45 were searched soon after Gricar was reported missing on April 15. A few people came forward and said they saw a red-and-white Mini Cooper -- the same type of car Gricar was driving when he disappeared -- in the area on April 15 and 16, but police could not confirm that the car seen was actually Gricar's.

At least one person reportedly saw the Mini Cooper leaving a stone quarry located along Route 192 about a mile from where the car was found in a Lewisburg parking lot. Zaccagni said police have searched the quarry twice and have talked to quarry workers there, some of whom said they also remember seeing a Mini Cooper driving away from the quarry.

The quarry has two small, shallow sludge ponds, but nothing unusual was found there, Zaccagni said. Bellefonte police officers also walked through a small wooded area near the quarry but found nothing out of the ordinary there, either."


Found this in a 2013 post on this forum. Can’t quote the post so copied/pasted. If this is legit I stand corrected.

That is a different quarry. There is one on the far side of the river east of Lewisburg, and one along 192, west of Lewisburg. The quote is from the old CDT Q&A site. Both quarries were active in 2005.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Complete failure of an investigation by law enforcement.

I disagree, to an extent.

The initial response by LE was excellent, in that first week. The problem was the follow up. They got very passive after that.

 

[Black Diamond]

I disagree, to an extent.

The initial response by LE was excellent, in that first week. The problem was the follow up. They got very passive after that.

The initial search may have been extensive, but not excellent. The investigation was not anything close to excellent. The fact that BPD ended up with this investigation is like sending a high school running back to play a game for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Why a tiny borough PD led the investigation of a missing person seen in two different counties the day he disappeared, and other counties the day prior is just baffling.

Not putting both of his ex wives through the ringer on questioning. No polygraphs on either. No statements from either that I have seen.

Bringing in the bloodhound much too late for it to be effective.

Not questioning his co-workers immediately.

No composite sketch on the mystery woman!

Then a few years later, why release Ray’s internet searches about wrecking a hard drive to the public but keep a bunch of other information under wraps?

Just to name a few! I could continue for hours!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The initial search may have been extensive, but not excellent. The investigation was not anything close to excellent. The fact that BPD ended up with this investigation is like sending a high school running back to play a game for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Why a tiny borough PD led the investigation of a missing person seen in two different counties the day he disappeared, and other counties the day prior is just baffling.

Not putting both of his ex wives through the ringer on questioning. No polygraphs on either. No statements from either that I have seen.

Bringing in the bloodhound much too late for it to be effective.

Not questioning his co-workers immediately.

No composite sketch on the mystery woman!

Then a few years later, why release Ray’s internet searches about wrecking a hard drive to the public but keep a bunch of other information under wraps?

Just to name a few! I could continue for hours!

I am talking about the initial response. They did interview both ex wives, though neither was polygraphed. The bloodhound was brought in about 12-18 hours after they found the car. They were questioning his co-workers on the morning of 4/16 and had looked at his office computer in that afternoon. I will agree with you on the composite sketch, but they had a working hypothesis as to who the mystery woman was.

They assumed that they would find a body. When that didn't happen, they needed to expand the investigation.

 

[Betty P]

The initial search may have been extensive, but not excellent. The investigation was not anything close to excellent. The fact that BPD ended up with this investigation is like sending a high school running back to play a game for the Pittsburgh Steelers. Why a tiny borough PD led the investigation of a missing person seen in two different counties the day he disappeared, and other counties the day prior is just baffling.

Not putting both of his ex wives through the ringer on questioning. No polygraphs on either. No statements from either that I have seen.

Bringing in the bloodhound much too late for it to be effective.

Not questioning his co-workers immediately.

No composite sketch on the mystery woman!

Then a few years later, why release Ray’s internet searches about wrecking a hard drive to the public but keep a bunch of other information under wraps?

Just to name a few! I could continue for hours!

Agree, especially regarding putting BPD in charge of the investigation while turning down offers for help from other counties. BPD didn’t even have a full time detective, just a part time one.

Ray had a lot of friends in law enforcement around the state who wanted to help. I’m sure the BPD meant well and really wanted to find him, but they didn’t have the capacity, tools or experience.

The refusal for outside help was unusual, JMO. Set off my hinky meter.

Also odd that the direction of the investigation very quickly diverted from a criminal one to “left willingly” or suicide. JMO

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Agree, especially regarding putting BPD in charge of the investigation while turning down offers for help from other counties. BPD didn’t even have a full time detective, just a part time one.

Ray had a lot of friends in law enforcement around the state who wanted to help. I’m sure the BPD meant well and really wanted to find him, but they didn’t have the capacity, tools or experience.

The refusal for outside help was unusual, JMO. Set off my hinky meter.

Also odd that the direction of the investigation very quickly diverted from a criminal one to “left willingly” or suicide. JMO

Suicide came up when Tony Gricar brought it up. While driving there, Tony and Chris heard that the car was found in a parking lot at the corner of Water Street, they turned to each other and said, "Suicide."

There is some circumstantial evidence of suicide, family history, age and profession, RFG's change in demeanor. Those things were known by Monday.

 

[Betty P]

Suicide came up when Tony Gricar brought it up. While driving there, Tony and Chris heard that the car was found in a parking lot at the corner of Water Street, they turned to each other and said, "Suicide."

There is some circumstantial evidence of suicide, family history, age and profession, RFG's change in demeanor. Those things were known by Monday.

But why did the county prosecutor refuse help from other jurisdictions? Why was there resistance to a task force, to a full criminal investigation?

 

[Ozoner]

But why did the county prosecutor refuse help from other jurisdictions? Why was there resistance to a task force, to a full criminal investigation?

Why would there be a criminal investigation when there was no evidence of a crime? I'm certain that there would have been one if there had been any evidence at all—any sign of a violent struggle, etc.

I lean towards suicide in this case. Foul play is possible, but resources are limited.

If I had been the one in charge of the purse strings, I would not have wanted to spend money on a criminal investigation without some kind of evidence that a crime had occurred.

If Ray had not had any indicators consistent with suicide, then it might have been a different story—but he did.

 

[Betty P]

Why would there be a criminal investigation when there was no evidence of a crime? I'm certain that there would have been one if there had been any evidence at all—any sign of a violent struggle, etc.

I lean towards suicide in this case. Foul play is possible, but resources are limited.

If I had been the one in charge of the purse strings, I would not have wanted to spend money on a criminal investigation without some kind of evidence that a crime had occurred.

If Ray had not had any indicators consistent with suicide, then it might have been a different story—but he did.

Any time a person disappears unexpectedly, LE investigates the possibility of foul play. That would be an even greater priority given Ray Gricar's position as District Attorney. He prosecuted many criminal cases during his career. There were suspicious aspects of his disappearance, including the lack of fingerprints on the interior of his car, etc.

 

[Trackergd]

While the initial search was somewhat extensive, I agree that it was not what it could have, or should have been. The investigation appears to have been largely "superficial". I get the impression that that there were aspects of what information was uncovered that someone in an official position decided to "contain". The investigation into a missing, sitting DA should have been led by PSP with assistance from the FBI. Also curious that no Governor or State Attorney General since has publicly made a deep dive into this case and presented what evidence the local investigation discovered. I have not seen any information regarding an investigation by the County Sheriff, who is the highest law enforcement official in any county in PA, mandated by the State Constitution, as noted on the Centre County PA official website.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

But why did the county prosecutor refuse help from other jurisdictions? Why was there resistance to a task force, to a full criminal investigation?

Well, because he was:

A. Not in charge of the investigation, technically.

B. Temporary. I think this point was lost on a lot of people.

On the temporary point:

1. Mark Smith did not know if RFG would A., return, or B., if the body would be found.

If A, RFG returns to being the DA. If B, the court in Centre County fills the vacancy; that would be limited to Smith.

2. The one that Smith actually does know is that, in January 2006, he would not be the DA. He did not know, on 4/17/05, who the next DA would be, but he knew it would probably be one of three people. He may not have wanted to tie anyone's hands.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

While the initial search was somewhat extensive, I agree that it was not what it could have, or should have been. The investigation appears to have been largely "superficial". I get the impression that that there were aspects of what information was uncovered that someone in an official position decided to "contain". The investigation into a missing, sitting DA should have been led by PSP with assistance from the FBI. Also curious that no Governor or State Attorney General since has publicly made a deep dive into this case and presented what evidence the local investigation discovered. I have not seen any information regarding an investigation by the County Sheriff, who is the highest law enforcement official in any county in PA, mandated by the State Constitution, as noted on the Centre County PA official website.

In fairness, in all of PA's counties, the sheriff is an "elected paper server." They basically serve as officers of the court and have no enforcement function; in some counties, they may be responsible for the jail. They do things like serve eviction notices and provide court house security. They do not have an investigative function.

At the start, everyone thought it was suicide as was expecting a body to be found. That explains the first several months.

Finally, you get into that perennial hobby in Central Pennsylvania Gothic, legacy protection. Tony Gricar said, in the paper, that the public would be "rightfully outraged," if it was found that RFG walked away. They do not want an ending that they think could damage RFG's reputation. They don't want people to think that RFG might have met a woman for a tryst, that he was a participant in some criminal activity, or that walked away. The first two reasons could be motives for murder; the third is where there is the most evidence. Those things could damage his legacy, so they don't want to look.

 

[Black Diamond]

Below is a link to an old site, but there is some good info. Photos pinpointing where the laptop and hard drive were found. CDT Q&A forum archive. Learned a few things I have not seen anywhere else. A lot of the links are old and no good though.

News, Videos & Links - RayGricar

Missing DA Ray Gricar

sites.google.com

 

[Betty P]

In fairness, in all of PA's counties, the sheriff is an "elected paper server." They basically serve as officers of the court and have no enforcement function; in some counties, they may be responsible for the jail. They do things like serve eviction notices and provide court house security. They do not have an investigative function.

At the start, everyone thought it was suicide as was expecting a body to be found. That explains the first several months.

Finally, you get into that perennial hobby in Central Pennsylvania Gothic, legacy protection. Tony Gricar said, in the paper, that the public would be "rightfully outraged," if it was found that RFG walked away. They do not want an ending that they think could damage RFG's reputation. They don't want people to think that RFG might have met a woman for a tryst, that he was a participant in some criminal activity, or that walked away. The first two reasons could be motives for murder; the third is where there is the most evidence. Those things could damage his legacy, so they don't want to look.

The DAs in PA who were concerned about Rays disappearance knew the protocol the needed to follow. They came up with a plan, figured out who would help and how to pay for it and contacted Ray's assistant DA. Unfortunately, a task force wasn't formed until 2010, 5 years after he went missing.

https://www.pennlive.com/midstate/2014/02/ray_gricar_mystery_state_polic.html

Those of us who follow cases here long enough know its important in the case of suspicious disappearance of someone (especially a DA) you start out by investigating all the possible causes. JMO, they should have been able to rule out a voluntary disappearance early on. No one who is planning to disappear would go to great lengths to be seen multiple times in multiple locations over a period of several hours in Lewisburg.

JMO, it was unprofessional to make a quick assumption that Ray disappeared because of suicide or because he "wanted to" and use that as an excuse to wait 5 years to conduct a criminal investigation. The lack of fingerprints in his car should have been a big clue.

From the link above, it was also noted that, even in 2015 "state police didn't want to take over the investigation" and

there had never been a successful argument for handing the case to a higher authority, such as state police or a grand jury

Really? Given the evidence and circumstances, if there wasn't a successful argument for taking the case higher up the ladder or convening a grand jury, then it sounds like a cover up. JMO