PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

[J. J. in Phila]

On most modern cars, all of the doors are locked and unlocked with a single button. The last car I owned where the doors were locked and unlocked individually was a 1980s model.

I also wouldn't assume that a snooping person would have entered on the passenger side just because the ashes were over there. He could've entered on the driver's side and leaned over the passenger seat in order to access the glove compartment. (If I were to snoop in a suspicious vehicle, the first thing I would do would be to look in the glove compartment to see whether there were any papers listing the owner's name.)

The ask was on the passenger side floor. Someone on the driver's side would have to lean over a steering wheel, and possibly a gearshift. Further, unless it was a thief, why would this snooper not leave prints? It was too warm for gloves and the phone was in plain sight.

My car was a 1998, and each door could be locked separately, or from a master switch.

If the snooper/thief wants to go into the glove box, why doesn't he go in from the passenger side? If he did, why was the door unlocked?

 

[Ozoner]

The ask was on the passenger side floor. Someone on the driver's side would have to lean over a steering wheel, and possibly a gearshift. Further, unless it was a thief, why would this snooper not leave prints? It was too warm for gloves and the phone was in plain sight.

My car was a 1998, and each door could be locked separately, or from a master switch.

If the snooper/thief wants to go into the glove box, why doesn't he go in from the passenger side? If he did, why was the door unlocked?

It would be a mistake to assume that every single thing that was done—locking this door, leaving that one—was based on a conscious decision.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It would be a mistake to assume that every single thing that was done—locking this door, leaving that one—was based on a conscious decision.

I would have to make a conclusion that none of it was based on a conscious decision.

1. RFG, leaving his phone in the Mini, forgot to lock up the Mini.

2. A person, smoking a cigarette, decided to rifle through the Mini, but not take, or mess up, anything. He then, by force of habit, locked the car that RFG had forgotten to lock.

That is stretching more than a bit.

 

[Ozoner]

I would have to make a conclusion that none of it was based on a conscious decision.

1. RFG, leaving his phone in the Mini, forgot to lock up the Mini.

2. A person, smoking a cigarette, decided to rifle through the Mini, but not take, or mess up, anything. He then, by force of habit, locked the car that RFG had forgotten to lock.

That is stretching more than a bit.

A person rifling through a car could be snooping or could be a thief looking for cash or loose change. We don't know whether any cash or loose change was taken from the car.

It wouldn't be quite accurate to say that Ray forgot to lock up the Mini; if he was planning to kill himself, then he likely didn't care whether the Mini was locked.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A person rifling through a car could be snooping or could be a thief looking for cash or loose change. We don't know whether any cash or loose change was taken from the car.

It wouldn't be quite accurate to say that Ray forgot to lock up the Mini; if he was planning to kill himself, then he likely didn't care whether the Mini was locked.

Yes, we do that there was $5.69 in change in the console. There was also a cell phone charger under the diver's seat.

The idea becomes less and less plausible the more information that we get.

 

[Ozoner]

Yes, we do that there was $5.69 in change in the console. There was also a cell phone charger under the diver's seat.

The idea becomes less and less plausible the more information that we get.

If there was change in the console, then a thief becomes unlikely; a nosy person doesn't. The car would have attracted attention sitting there overnight.

Were Ray's fingerprints found throughout the interior of the car, or did it appear that the car had been wiped down? Was Ray someone who detailed his car often?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If there was change in the console, then a thief becomes unlikely; a nosy person doesn't. The car would have attracted attention sitting there overnight.

Were Ray's fingerprints found throughout the interior of the car, or did it appear that the car had been wiped down? Was Ray someone who detailed his car often?

Only partial prints, unreadable on the inside. RFG's on the door.

The nosy person was smoking a cigarette while doing this.

 

[Ozoner]

Only partial prints, unreadable on the inside. RFG's on the door.

The nosy person was smoking a cigarette while doing this.

Correct.

 

[minazoe]

you guys, this case was not well investigated. I do think it's interesting that they polygraphed PF and his daughter...just adds to the weirdness...but the stuff in the article about the people who actually investigated this case when it went down..is disheartening.

also I never knew that there was a group that thinks Ray's disappearance is connected to J Luna. ( ok weird but I want to know the working theory)..Jonathan Luna is a fascinating case..

so they never found the mystery woman, tall with short brown hair ? I feel the article reads differently than what I have known...why did I think that they eventually spoke to the mystery woman..? or is it the mystery woman wasn't who they thought it was.?

I just can't shake my feeling that Ray went home.

I mean PF passed a polygraph, she obviously knew nothing right? but it just bothers me.

it would be interesting to try to walk/drive through his day and the timeline..home much time did Ray have ?

how the car was left..like it was someone else..and Ray's scent in the parking lot. Wish we knew where all his money went too..mOO

 

[Daisy1980]

PEF also took a voluntary pay cut so that she could retire at the same time as RFG

Are you speculating about this? or has this been discussed and I'm forgetting? I'm just curious how she'd have enough money to retire at the same time as him if she was 20 years younger. Plus if he didn't have all that much saved...

 

[GXP Sleuther]

My guess is he is he commit suicide.

 

[minazoe]

why would Ray need to make going to Slovenia into a disappearance of such epic mystery? for me it seems like
something of movies..

I would need to understand why he would do this...mOO

 

[?!?]

why would Ray need to make going to Slovenia into a disappearance of such epic mystery? for me it seems like
something of movies..

I would need to understand why he would do this...mOO

I am not an expert, and I don't know SQUAT -- but (strictly from memory) I had become convinced, many years ago, that his disappearance had to do with either revenge for a previous conviction he had won, or a continuing/future prosecution: in other words it was likely a pro/mob hit.

 

[minazoe]

I forgot about that judge he knew that DISAPPEARED to Slovenia...how freaking weird is that??? I feel like I know more about that now and why there is that speculation..Im not saying I quite buy it..but it gives more gravitas to the idea...

whereas before you are trying to imagine Ray wanting so badly to live in Slovakia with a bunch of schlivovitz pounding, folksy euros in their little cafes with everybody smoking.. and living in a village in a time warp ..

now he's a folksy lawyer herding goats with his best friend the Dead Judge in the new motion picture.

RAYVENIA starring Kevin Costner and Tommy Lee Jones as two expats adjusting to life on a small Slovakian Chicken farm ..where they are on the lamb from a vicious New England crime family and their crazy exes!.

co-starring Jennifer Lopez as the head turning Slovakian barmaid who steals their hearts.. and their wallets.!!

omigod, Im going to bed...haha!!!

 

[minazoe]

sorry if Slovenia /Slovakia. two different places or one within the other? .. not up to date on the region..or just too lazy to check it...but you know what I mean!

 

[Daisy1980]

sorry if Slovenia /Slovakia. two different places or one within the other? .. not up to date on the region..or just too lazy to check it...but you know what I mean!

these are two completely different countries

 

[minazoe]

lolz, I know and it's too late too late to edit, I hope I didn't offend anyone, I know these countries are not all chicken farms etc...I just had a vision for a comedy!

thank you for the geography lesson and sorry to go so off topic!

 

[ilovewings]

you guys, this case was not well investigated. I do think it's interesting that they polygraphed PF and his daughter...just adds to the weirdness...but the stuff in the article about the people who actually investigated this case when it went down..is disheartening.

also I never knew that there was a group that thinks Ray's disappearance is connected to J Luna. ( ok weird but I want to know the working theory)..Jonathan Luna is a fascinating case..

so they never found the mystery woman, tall with short brown hair ? I feel the article reads differently than what I have known...why did I think that they eventually spoke to the mystery woman..? or is it the mystery woman wasn't who they thought it was.?

I just can't shake my feeling that Ray went home.

I mean PF passed a polygraph, she obviously knew nothing right? but it just bothers me.

it would be interesting to try to walk/drive through his day and the timeline..home much time did Ray have ?

how the car was left..like it was someone else..and Ray's scent in the parking lot. Wish we knew where all his money went too..mOO

Yes Jonathan Luna is a fascinating case- so much we don't know--

 

[minazoe]

I always feel so suspicious about PF calling the police like almost right away. I know I need to get off her back..but I just see Ray meeting up with another woman...when he is in a relationship already..he is driving out there pretending it's just a jaunt for toy shopping at the antique mall...for all we know they have never spoken to this woman and they have run away together...this I could see because he is easily smitten and might propose suddenly . This then would make some sense..perhaps this was some romantic notion. he got rid of the "affair laden" laptop and ditched the car..

this I could believe...deep guilt over dumping PF. he left her the car ( really he didn't owe her anything , they weren't married) and his daughter his pension...so it makes sense all his missing money was quietly stashed somewhere..and honestly he could have a good deal.

there's just too many missing pieces...I mean he was seen with ANOTHER WOMAN...another woman not named PF. what was he doing? What if this woman had problems and she was the one who needed to disappear?

what if she was in a bad marriage? what if all his distracted behavior and weird behavior had to do with this other woman?

why would he go hang out with some other woman not PF the day of his suicide?

I just can't quit you, Ray.

mOO

 

[Quiet Time]

I don't know if I agree w/your theory ...but you're so passionate about it I wanted to rep you!

May be this woman has a special interest in antiquing like RG does, and they've bonded over their common love of it. And things blossomed from there.????