PA PA - Richard Petrone 35 & Danielle Imbo 34, Philadelphia, 19 Feb 2005 #2

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For me carjacking is the lowest possibility. Not ruling out entirely, just not at the top of my list. It was not quite 12 midnight and although it was quite cold I think there would still have been some traffic and people out. If it was a water accident it had to be a road close to water not heavily traveled otherwise someone would have seen it happen. I have read Joe was 5’9” and depending on the article he weighed 200 lbs or 150. If he was 200, he was a stocky fellow, add in he is Italian (nothing negative here) just that I would not see him going out without a fight, especially to save Danielle who it seemed he really cared about. How could they both be subdued without any evidence left behind, which could be what @zecats suggested, someone was in the truck waiting and made them drive somewhere. Who knows, this is a real mystery!
 
I don't believe carjacking either. Why wait for the owners to show up to steal a car that's been on the street for a few hours. A key isn't always necessary to start up a vehicle or to get into it.

I have no clue what happened, honestly. I was stating how I felt at the time and after reading that LE thinks it's a possible murder for hire, what better way than to find out where they were (or where one of them was) and find a way into the car. Not everyone locks up a car religiously, but if these were trained murderers, getting into a car wouldn't have stopped them. IMHO

As for bodies of water..if they were indeed parked on South St, I can guess the route they would have taken to get to Danielle's home in NJ. It's the route I would take and do the when I'm in South Philly.

South St is one way, so travel east to 5th St and turn left. This is a direct route to the Ben Franklin Bridge which is the most logical choice to Mount Laurel, NJ. After crossing the bridge at Camden, taking route 38 north (or east - its a diagonal road) and this would lead straight to Mount Laurel and her address.

My point for this is there are no bodies of water (especially murky) that they would pass and drive into. And I also believe they would have been found if they ended up in the Delaware, Schuylkill, or Cooper Rivers.

All MOO and at this point what else do we have?
Personally I don't believe they even made it back to NJ. Though the toll is one way going into Philly. No need to even stop heading into NJ.
 
zecats said:
It's one of those cases that has stuck with me because it's so mysterious. If it was random, I really don't think it would be hard to hide bodies and change a truck to look differently. But IMO there's only a small percentage that was the case.
Click to expand...
Changing the look of the truck wouldn't help. The VIN would still be the same so it could never be registered again. You couldn't even sell parts off the truck as many parts have the VIN on them. Even places that crush vehicles record the VINs on them.

So it's really hard to get rid of the truck. So that limits what could have happened:
1) Accident that no one has discovered yet.
2) Truck hidden away somewhere (a big gamble no one finds it).
3) Truck disposed of (crushed) through nefarious junkyard.
The truck or its parts are unlikely anywhere else, IMO.
 
zecats said:
I don't believe carjacking either. Why wait for the owners to show up to steal a car that's been on the street for a few hours. A key isn't always necessary to start up a vehicle or to get into it.
Click to expand...
A 2001 Dodge Dakota had a SKIM key (computer chip) - so the truck couldn't be easily hot wired. But there still ways to steal them.
And if the vehicle was the reason, then the car jacking would have to be for something immediate - like using the truck for another crime (like an ATM theft) and immediately disposing of the truck in a way it or its parts cannot be found.
 
I still keep a car jacking on my list of possibilities for this one, but not a high probability. My most likely scenario is that one or both were targeted and destroying the truck in a junkyard eliminates the crime scene. Of course, the same could be said of a car jacking if it didn't go as the car jacker(s) planned and the truck was a messy crime scene with maybe a killer's blood in it if there was a struggle. Then the truck could have been destroyed to eliminate the crime scene. Still, I don't see this as a car jacking. Car jackers are usually after the vehicle and would likely flee from the scene leaving the bodies there. This just seems to be too well planned in advance with the objective of eliminating everything - bodies and vehicle.

If planned, were they followed? The killer had to know where they were and the truck if it happened as they got to the truck. The more I think about this the more I believe the attack happened in NJ near Danielle's place.
 
[QUOTE="ChuckMaureen, post: 15565353, member: 5204"
Here's another thought: what about impound lots? Is it possible some vehicles go unnoticed for years and years? How many impound lots are there? How many junk yards are there, both commercial and private?
[/QUOTE]
Impound lots and junkyards keep lists of vehicles and VINs. The last thing one of these businesses want is to be caught with a vehicle reported stolen or missing.
The truck isn't sitting in a reputable business unknown to police. Even a "chop shop" would not likely be involved because of the risk (it's bad enough to be caught with a stolen car, but a stolen car where the occupants are presumed murdered is much worse - even in 2005 this truck wasn't worth enough in parts for a chop shop to risk this).
 
JnRyan said:
I still keep a car jacking on my list of possibilities for this one, but not a high probability. My most likely scenario is that one or both were targeted and destroying the truck in a junkyard eliminates the crime scene. Of course, the same could be said of a car jacking if it didn't go as the car jacker(s) planned and the truck was a messy crime scene with maybe a killer's blood in it if there was a struggle. Then the truck could have been destroyed to eliminate the crime scene. Still, I don't see this as a car jacking. Car jackers are usually after the vehicle and would likely flee from the scene leaving the bodies there. This just seems to be too well planned in advance with the objective of eliminating everything - bodies and vehicle.

If planned, were they followed? The killer had to know where they were and the truck if it happened as they got to the truck. The more I think about this the more I believe the attack happened in NJ near Danielle's place.
Click to expand...

I agree if an attack happened it happened in NJ near Danielle's house. Danielle and Richard seeing each other that night was not planned in advance. Other than his sister and both their mother's not too many folks knew they were out together. Now more folks would find out faster due to SM but SM was not as relevant in 2005. Surely they could have sent folks text saying where they were but they were not posting on Instagram.
 
I wonder if this was a car jacking (or murder for hire) in the parking lot of Danielle's NJ condo and not South Street in Philly?

Either way it spooks me as I'm ten minutes from both Mount Laurel, NJ and Philly.

Either there was some freak accident where no one has thought to look or a perp knew what he was doing.
 
sbbm
zecats said:
<snip> after reading that LE thinks it's a possible murder for hire,

/snip/

As for bodies of water..if they were indeed parked on South St, I can guess the route they would have taken to get to Danielle's home in NJ. It's the route I would take and do the when I'm in South Philly.

/snip/

My point for this is there are no bodies of water (especially murky) that they would pass and drive into.

/snip/

I don't believe they even made it back to NJ.

/snip/
Click to expand...

The FBI floated the "murder-for-hire" possibility partly as a fishing-expedition attempt to shake the tree, hoping to make one or more individuals nervous. I recall reading about 'credible tips' after the attempt but... here we are. The tactic didn't work.

As for not passing murky waters, that entirely depends on if their drive path was a shortest-main-roads-route b-line to DI's condo or if they decided to take their time and casually drive random residential routes while they chatted about life. There are many smallish-to-moderate-sized bodies of water scattered throughout the general area, and much of that area is not illuminated.

Their 'date' that evening was not planned earlier than that afternoon/evening and if this is a murder-for-hire case we'd have to assume someone was watching/following one or the other or both, or a person who invited them was in on it. (SPECULATION ONLY!)

Who would want both DI and RP murdered? We have no informed insight in to the details of the lives of either missing person; we do not know if DI had a stalker (she was a vocalist in a band: visibility) or if there was a someone after RP's money (ran a successful family-owned business: ransom, kidnapping gone wrong?).

Again, we turn to Occam's Razor principles. The least complicated of explanations: an accidental submerging.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
sbbm


The FBI floated the "murder-for-hire" possibility partly as a fishing-expedition attempt to shake the tree, hoping to make one or more individuals nervous. I recall reading about 'credible tips' after the attempt but... here we are. The tactic didn't work.

As for not passing murky waters, that entirely depends on if their drive path was a shortest-main-roads-route b-line to DI's condo or if they decided to take their time and casually drive random residential routes while they chatted about life. There are many smallish-to-moderate-sized bodies of water scattered throughout the general area, and much of that area is not illuminated.

Their 'date' that evening was not planned earlier than that afternoon/evening and if this is a murder-for-hire case we'd have to assume someone was watching/following one or the other or both, or a person who invited them was in on it. (SPECULATION ONLY!)

Who would want both DI and RP murdered? We have no informed insight in to the details of the lives of either missing person; we do not know if DI had a stalker (she was a vocalist in a band: visibility) or if there was a someone after RP's money (ran a successful family-owned business: ransom, kidnapping gone wrong?).

Again, we turn to Occam's Razor principles. The least complicated of explanations: an accidental submerging.
Click to expand...

Accidental submerging is on my list but it does seem like the family did lots of searches with that mindset. It would be nice to know where they searched. Danielle’s brother was even able to hire a helicopter. Does anyone know the area around Daniella’s condo? Could someone have been waiting for her to arrive home? She did not have her car so did her friend pick her up for girls night? But if someone was waiting for her at her house, I cannot imagine Richard and Daniella going quietly so neighbors would have heard a commotion- I would think. I keep going back and forth between water accident and foul play. But considering not many people knew they were out together as it was a last minute plan, water accident seems the most logical.
 
Since their vehicle was not see crossing any of the Delaware River bridges from PA to NJ, it seems unlikely they made it back to her condo. It is a condo, on Dunbarton Road in Mount Laurel...not sure he she rented or owned, but seems she worked from home for a mortgage company.

I posted map earlier, but if you google the address you can see photos of the building and the parking lots.

BBM

No trace in 10 years since Mt. Laurel woman, friend vanished

"Petrone was supposed to drive Imbo back to her condominium on Dunbarton Road, but police say they never made it. Family members reported them missing the next day after phone calls went unanswered and appointments were missed.

Their cellphones and credit cards were not used, and Petrone’s black Dodge Dakota also went missing. The vehicle never appeared on surveillance tapes of Delaware River bridges.
 
Has any evidence or behavior on the part of Richard and Daniella been developed that would suggest a "murder for hire"? While not out of the scope of this case, bodies in cars is rare. 98% only the cars are being dumped after a joy ride or having been used for criminal activities. If the truck never appeared on the security footage from the bridges, that points to a different avenue of egress. I owned a Dakota and I would not put it on the "hot list" for vehicle theft. I would have been happy for someone to have stolen the one I owned and collected the insurance payout with a smile. That said, there are a lot of auto wrecking yards in Philly and the surrounding areas. One out near me was owned by a 1% motorcycle club before LE raided it. I don't see any auto parts yards rising to the level of killing two people over a truck. Attention may have been focused in the wrong direction all these years.
 
Trackergd said:
Has any evidence or behavior on the part of Richard and Daniella been developed that would suggest a "murder for hire"? While not out of the scope of this case, bodies in cars is rare. 98% only the cars are being dumped after a joy ride or having been used for criminal activities. If the truck never appeared on the security footage from the bridges, that points to a different avenue of egress. I owned a Dakota and I would not put it on the "hot list" for vehicle theft. I would have been happy for someone to have stolen the one I owned and collected the insurance payout with a smile. That said, there are a lot of auto wrecking yards in Philly and the surrounding areas. One out near me was owned by a 1% motorcycle club before LE raided it. I don't see any auto parts yards rising to the level of killing two people over a truck. Attention may have been focused in the wrong direction all these years.
Click to expand...

I thought DI had a connected husband. There are a lot of shady chop shops in Philly.
 
From a RP website:

February 19, 2005

bbm
Richard Petrone Jr. and his friend, Danielle (Ottobre) Imbo, were last seen around 11:45 pm on Saturday, Feb. 19, 2005 leaving Abilene’s bar at 429 South Street in Philadelphia, where they met with some friends.

/snipped/

They planned to spend the night at Danielle’s house in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. The next day, Richard was to come back to his apartment on Snyder Avenue near 16th Street in South Philadelphia to watch the Daytona 500. No one knows if the couple ever made it to Danielle’s house Saturday night.
Click to expand...

But, we also have this, from Philadelphia mag article:

Welcome | Philadelphia Magazine

bbm
on February 19, 2005, he had been alone, eating in a South Philly bar and working his cell phone, searching for someone to meet up with for a drink. He reached his sister, Christine, and found her enjoying a ladies’ night out with their mother, Marge, and two longtime friends, Felice Ottobre and her daughter.

Danielle.

Richard and Danielle’s relationship always bore this extra wrinkle: Danielle was his sister’s best friend, dating back to high school. Their moms enjoyed a friendship of their own.

“Want to come have a drink?” Richard asked.

Christine said no. But she put the invitation to Danielle. And two hours later, the reunited couple looked happy together. They sat close, smiling and laughing. They kissed. They compared notes on what their ensuing Sundays entailed: Danielle had a hair appointment at 11 a.m.; her ex-husband was scheduled to return their son after that. Richard, a NASCAR fan, planned to watch the Daytona 500. At around 11:45 p.m., they got up to leave.

Richard said he’d drive Danielle home to Mount Laurel before returning to his place in South Philly.
Click to expand...

This: "they planned to spend the night at Danielle's house".

Along with: "No one knows if the couple ever made it to Danielle’s house Saturday night."

When DI's brother checked his sister's house, he found it 'dark and undisturbed'... seemingly indicative the couple never arrived, or arrived and left and then disappeared.

I'm leaning toward they never made it to DI's house.

After re-reading the Philly mag article today (I had read it years back, when it was first published) I still am wanting to believe they simply experienced a water accident, but I was reminded of the FBI agent's thoughts:

He sees numerous possible culprits, motives and scenarios. He just can’t find the trail leading from the crime back to its perpetrators.

The murder-for-hire scenario, he admits, was only one possibility among many. The feds, he says, put out that release to “shake the tree.” They got nothing. But there remain other leads.

Danielle’s ex-husband, Joe Imbo, had a rock-solid alibi for February 19th, one that placed him 50 miles away at a kids’ party with his stepfather, an ex-NYPD officer, and multiple active police. Imbo took a lie-detector test, but Roselli won’t discuss the results. “I don’t have evidence to arrest Joe” is all he says. “I also have not ruled him out.”
Click to expand...
A question grows in my brain: was RP and/or DI being watched and followed that cold Saturday in 2005? Was a particular person's bank account(s) checked for a large or many smaller cash withdrawals?

It seems no one besides a jealous estranged husband would have motive to harm either of them but there is no evidence to suggest involvement. And, there is an alibi.

But this thought still remains: did the couple, while driving along, decide to travel to a Poconos or 'down the shore' getaway for a more romantic encounter that evening but ended up in some body of water along the way?
 
Do we know the exact address for both of them? Some quick Google Earth searches yielded spots where a truck or car could have been disposed into a lake, such as into Strawbridge Lake via Nixon Drive off of Rte 38.
 
There are several boat launch ramps along the Delaware river. This wouldn't be the first time someone accidentally drove down a boat ram into water at speed with the vehicle remaining undiscovered (often for decades). No idea if any of these would be along the routes they took.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
From a RP website:


After re-reading the Philly mag article today (I had read it years back, when it was first published) I still am wanting to believe they simply experienced a water accident, but I was reminded of the FBI agent's thoughts:

Danielle’s ex-husband, Joe Imbo, had a rock-solid alibi for February 19th, one that placed him 50 miles away at a kids’ party with his stepfather, an ex-NYPD officer, and multiple active police. Imbo took a lie-detector test, but Roselli won’t discuss the results. “I don’t have evidence to arrest Joe” is all he says. “I also have not ruled him out.”

A question grows in my brain: was RP and/or DI being watched and followed that cold Saturday in 2005? Was a particular person's bank account(s) checked for a large or many smaller cash withdrawals?

It seems no one besides a jealous estranged husband would have motive to harm either of them but there is no evidence to suggest involvement. And, there is an alibi.

But this thought still remains: did the couple, while driving along, decide to travel to a Poconos or 'down the shore' getaway for a more romantic encounter that evening but ended up in some body of water along the way?
Click to expand...

I snipped a little to shorten the post. Regarding the bolded part, was JI deceptive on some of the lie-detector questions but not having any evidence there is nothing that can be done. Has JI ever stated the result of his lie-detector test? Seems to me if I passed I would shout it out. Silence on the subject would be telling, IMHO. In the attached article Richard's father talks about Richard telling him JI called him many times a few days prior to them going missing telling him to stay away from his wife. It has been stated Danielle took a break from both men in the weeks prior to going missing. I have to go back an find out why she was separated from her husband. I know I read it but cannot remember. I did read article that was an interview with JI (cannot find it right now but will keep looking) where he seemed to just whine about poor him and how awful it was that people thought he could do such a thing but nothing really about hoping Danielle was found and justice is served. Anyway just my ramblings for the day. ALL MOO AND IMHO!!

After 10 years, still no sign of Richard Petrone and Danielle Imbo
 
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