PA - Shane Montgomery, 21, Philadelphia, 27 Nov 2014 #5

[takeittothebank]

momthebomb, I agree with your post and ChuckMaureen said it too, I feel like Shane probably entered the lot under his own reasoning, even with him being drunk, instead of it being a situation of him wandering aimlessly. And for me I dont think he went near the water to pee. heartgoesout, I agree with you that his friends probably werent with him at the end of the night, thats why I am wondering who he was with, like someone unknown? or someone he just met? or if he was alone.

 

[borndem]

This is one of the reasons I am suspicious about this being an accident. I feel like the keys were too far out [30 ft out] from potential entry points and from where Shane was found [10 ft out]. It makes me think the keys were thrown which would probably indicate a suicide, or less likely but possibly foul play, situation. I think some have suggested he could have dropped the keys and then accidentally fell in later but im pretty confident that didnt happen because then the keys would have been closer to the edge. And if he accidentally drowned close to the edge, from the sounds of this article the body doesnt travel out too far, so its a bit unlikely his body would have been taken out to 30 ft for the keys to fall out of his pocket, right?

bbm
I agree -- every drowning article I have read states that a drowning victim's body does not go very far from where he/she actually drowned. The body is weighted down with whatever clothing, shoes, items in pockets, etc., he is wearing, and the currents at the bottom are much slower than those at the surface. The articles also say that when the body surfaces, it is not far from where the drowning took place (of course this does not pertain to this situation.)

Could his lanyard and keys have floated out that far before they got saturated & sank?

Another note: Do we know how long Shane wandered around? I don't think we could know that, of course -- maybe he did get really cold and hypothermic before he entered the water...

 

[RileyRN]

Scientically, it makes sense if the wall was the point of entry. Body traveled a ways on the surface in the current. He was found approx. 10 feet from the rivers edge. Ultimately water entered his lungs enough to cause drowning in front of the brew pub. A quarter of a mile is a long way to travel in my opinion, but it's possible, he was traveling along the current trying to survive. If shane was a non-swimmer & doesn't know how to swim, I doubt it would be possible. He would drown where he entered, or at least in close proximity.
If he could swim, then it's easier to comprehend he was fighting the current.
I can tell you by experience- the current can be strong. I found myself way down river on many days, far away from my dock, fighting a current. I can't even imagine, fighting it in the darkness, with clothes & sneakers on, freezing water temperatures and drunk. I probably would not survive.

Alwaysonthecase, I agree with this scenario. Shane enters the river at some point near that wall, the current takes him to near the brew pub, he is trying to survive and is overcome. Don't know what the rate of the current was on that night, or if that even matters unless he was in the process of drowning as the current carried him away, and he succumbed in a few minutes 10 feet from the edge. If the current was 5 miles an hour, it would take him 12 minutes to go one mile and 3 minutes to go a quarter of a mile (check my math, tho). A person can drown in a few minutes.

 

[AllGood]

bbm

Another note: Do we know how long Shane wandered around? I don't think we could know that, of course -- maybe he did get really cold and hypothermic before he entered the water...

RSBM (I hope I did that correctly)...
I don't think we could know that either, but I wish we could...
I think its been stated that he got to Kildare's around 1 a.m. (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong).
So, he was there barely an hour before getting asked to leave. I wonder how many bars they were previously at, and the distances those different bars were from Kildare's.
If they were out walking around at various bars say between 10-1, it would be walking outside/getting cold, in a bar/warming up and then back out into the cold again. Could his body temperature have been fluctuating? So, maybe he was already chilled before going into Kildare's, then only being in there a short time and heading back out into the cold? I don't even know if that would make a difference, but it's been on my mind.

 

[Zuri]

Interesting reads on hypothermia. I don't know if hypothermia played a part here, unless Shane was totally wasted and passed out somewhere. I have taken care of several hypothermia patients and they typically were exposed for a fair amount of time and were wet. The body is going to violently shiver, similar to when you are spiking a temp from a virus or something and you start shivering and shaking, your teeth chatter. Except for the opposite reason and way worse.

 

[Zuri]

You all got me thinking about people who jump off bridges. Depending on the height of the bridge, more than likely hitting the water is like hitting concrete. The jump shatters bones and can rupture organs. Since breathing is an involuntary reflex, several breaths may be taken prior to death. Evidence of water in the lungs is determined on autopsy.

So is the manner of death drowning in these cases? Or drowning secondary to suicide? It can be a mélange of factors. It just seems odd to me that drowning would be listed as a COD in these cases. IMO

 

[letag519]

I haven't seen or heard it discussed in the media or on this website. What (if anything) did Shane have to eat either before he went out with his friends and/or while he was out. Drinkers (especially those on a binge ) given the choice of spending money on food or alcohol would usually chose alcohol. Alcohol consumption can lower blood sugar and cause hypoglycemia. Symptoms of hypoglycemia are:

Confusion
Dizziness
Feeling shaky
Hunger
Headaches
Irritability
Pounding heart; racing pulse
Pale skin
Sweating
Trembling
Weakness
Anxiety

This condition could also cause a person to become disoriented and unsteady on their feet.

"Alcohol can also negatively impact blood sugar levels each time that it is consumed, regardless of the frequency of consumption. Research has shown that acute consumption increases insulin secretion, causing low blood sugar (hypoglycemia), and can also impair the hormonal response that would normally rectify the low blood sugar. Drinking as little as 2 ounces of alcohol on an empty stomach can lead to very low blood sugar levels."

http://www.medicinenet.com/alcohol_and_nutrition/page4.htm

 

[Midge Montana]

Cause of Death and Manner of Death are two different things.

 

[Peonies]

It would be helpful if someone in the know could let us know if Shane sustained cervical fractures or skull fractures. IMO they would rule in/out a fall/accident.

I also wonder if there were some hijinx going on and someone thought they would be cute and throw his keys in the water. Or threw them in after Shane fell in and split. IMO someone out there knows something and is afraid to come forward in fear of being arrested, even though their actions were not malicious.

I don't believe Shane committed suicide. IMO

BBM: that's my theory - what was a prank, either harmless or malicious - someone tossed his keys in, he went into retrieve them, they left when (or before) they realized he was struggling and subsequently drowning -- and they are now sitting tight lipped. Either as a witness, or because they've realized their actions caused his death after they split.

Was anyone seen entering that area before Shane went into that parking lot? Have they been questioned? Is there any access to that location without using the bridge? Homeless persons? Another drunk partier?

 

[Peonies]

I'm sorry, I forgot who posted the link the the forensicforwriters.blogspot.com link

I found this incredibly important (we lost one of our volunteer firefighters due to this very reason during a training session.)

'Dry' or 'Atypical' Drowning

People may also die as a result of sudden and unexpected immersion in cold water.

This 'atypical' or 'dry' drowning' is caused by cardiac arrest owing to 'vagal inhibition'. This means that the vagal nerve, which lowers the heart rate in a healthy person, is, essentially, overstimulated so that the heart stops beating. The person suffers almost immediate loss of consciousness and death follows soon afterwards.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I have not yet seen information regarding LE extracting / having extracted data from Shane's cellphone or if they will even attempt to do so.

Thinking on a possible suicide audio memo or video recording on his cellphone:

If Shane had recorded himself speaking/videoing a suicide note on his cellphone we could safely assume he would have meant for family or someone to see it afterward so surely he would have left his cellphone in a (dry) location where it would be relatively easily discovered ... he would not have placed it back in to his pocket before entering the river.

This leads me to believe his (possible) suicide was not planned over the long-term ... it was that evening when the perfect storm of struggles, feelings and timing that led Shane to the river.


*** warning - somewhat graphic phrasing follows ***


Back to the topic of hypothermia: Shane was recovered still wearing clothing so he never reached the point of 'near-ready to die' state where victims of stage 3-approaching-stage 4 hypothermia attempt to hide themselves and remove their clothing (thought to be caused by distortions of humans' basic survival instincts). He was passed before he experienced that stage. This might support a theory that Shane was not experiencing advanced stages of hypothermia before he entered the river.

Negating the theory of 'accidental' entry in to the water is easy by way of a seemingly-observable fact it is not possible to place ones' self in a position **along the parking lot border to the river** where one could accidentally 'fall' in to the river and be swept away even given the mildly-worsened condition of the river that evening (above-average gage height and flow rate). One would have to descend the bank and walk or jump in to the water and continue for a brief way to reach deeper water.

The logical positioning for 'accidental' entry would be along the top of the concrete wall located at the southwestern corner of the parking lot. But we do not know why Shane would place himself in such a precarious position. Alcohol-distorted thinking? Perhaps, but we also must account for the effects of having been out and about for five hours, bar-hopping, college struggles, relationship struggles or lack thereof, interactions during the evening and perhaps previous-days interactions, etc. Good experiences or bad experiences or a combination of both?

The end-of-year holidays can be stressful. Does one have a job? Does one have bills / incurred debt? Does one have enough money to buy presents for family and a friend(s). Is one succeeding in college? Is one covering up depression by being 'funny' (a jokester) all the time? Does one have an intimate companion? Lost one? Wants one and has been unable to acquire? Was one truly happy?

So many issues are possible, but what we know is the *result* of whatever were the actual issues Shane might have experienced and that *result* is his passing in the river, and extrapolating backward from that result to discern what may have occurred leads some to believe it was a culmination of the worse of those possibilities.

 

[TTF14]

Sadly, I think this was a suicide. Based on where the keys were found, I believe Shane jumped from that ledge and his keys either fell out of his pocket when he entered the water or he threw them in first. I just can't make accidentally falling in the river at that location make sense in my head.

Unless his cousin knows someone else who committed suicide recently, I think his tweet is very telling. That's a very common phrase people say about suicide, so I would assume that is what he meant as well.

Thinking of the Montgomery family as they honor Shane's memory this evening.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

Alwaysonthecase, I agree with this scenario. Shane enters the river at some point near that wall, the current takes him to near the brew pub, he is trying to survive and is overcome. Don't know what the rate of the current was on that night, or if that even matters unless he was in the process of drowning as the current carried him away, and he succumbed in a few minutes 10 feet from the edge. If the current was 5 miles an hour, it would take him 12 minutes to go one mile and 3 minutes to go a quarter of a mile (check my math, tho). A person can drown in a few minutes.

Totally trying to still figure it out myself
It's mathematical equations.
I can't do math period.
I'm a right brainer

The wind at 2am on November 27, 2014 was 9mph (WNW)
2500 cubic sq. ft. a second was discharged.
Shane weighs 130-145 - no exact weight available
If the point of entry was the wall-
How fast would he travel 1/4 of a mile?
(without knowing the speed of the current, buoyancy, velocity & other elements.)
and does the weight of the object travel at a different speed?
I'll leave this equation to the brainiacs.

I do find it compelling that both points are the exact measurements.
To have a constant velocity, an object must have a constant speed in a constant direction. Thus, a constant velocity means motion in a straight line at a constant speed.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

A non-swimming body in water does not actively 'contribute' to its speed and direction to a significant degree, other than the fact its surface area provides a friction surface for which the water to act upon. Ingestion of water is a factor, affects buoyancy. Varying water gage depth, flow rate, volume, at-surface- and at-depth-widths, shore-to-shore interaction, cross-currents, chemical composition, debris dispersion and interaction, riverbed layout, riverbed debris field(s), temperature, density, velocity, wind ... so many variable that may affect an object floating on or in water.

 

[Jonesy124]

I am not a brainac or have any knowledge about water/drownings. I don't think he was swimming towards the brew pub. I think he died close to point of entry and his body as the divers were saying was pushed down by the currents and that there are pockets of mud even next to his body was a 6ft-7ft deep one where he was found. I don't think his body was there the whole time it slowly moved down with how the river is. The cause of death is still pending no matter what the family says and I understand why they came out to say that so fast, but it's still pending. I am going to reserve my judgement as we do not know what happened. I am not an expert on keys either and that river is complex full of debris and I still the keys were in his hoodie or in his hand and could certainly travel in that debris/murky water. He was not sucidial that day I can tell you this he was excited to be home and meet up with his friends. If there were any suciidal thoughts, they were instant or produced by inebriation/other substances that may cause hallucination and again doesnt mean he was suicidal but maybe thought the river was pavement or another object he was trying to get away from that is not necessarily suciidal thinking. I wouldn't read to much in to the cousin's tweet, it was a retweet and he himself maybe having deep depression and it may be a reminder to himself. It's also called survivor's guilt some of the feelings the cousin is experiencing. Shane was a human being, a beloved young man by many. Many of us at his age of 21 were naive and still trying to find our way one way or another. Today he is not a case, today his family and friends begin to get him to his final resting place. And this is tragic. And if his deemed relative or a Kildaire's staff or even a patron said "Hey wait a minute I see your stumbling and not well let me get you home" we would not be on this board right now.

 

[letag519]

I am not a brainac or have any knowledge about water/drownings. I don't think he was swimming towards the brew pub. I think he died close to point of entry and his body as the divers were saying was pushed down by the currents and that there are pockets of mud even next to his body was a 6ft-7ft deep one where he was found. I don't think his body was there the whole time it slowly moved down with how the river is. The cause of death is still pending no matter what the family says and I understand why they came out to say that so fast, but it's still pending. I am going to reserve my judgement as we do not know what happened. I am not an expert on keys either and that river is complex full of debris and I still the keys were in his hoodie or in his hand and could certainly travel in that debris/murky water. He was not sucidial that day I can tell you this he was excited to be home and meet up with his friends. If there were any suciidal thoughts, they were instant or produced by inebriation/other substances that may cause hallucination and again doesnt mean he was suicidal but maybe thought the river was pavement or another object he was trying to get away from that is not necessarily suciidal thinking. I wouldn't read to much in to the cousin's tweet, it was a retweet and he himself maybe having deep depression and it may be a reminder to himself. It's also called survivor's guilt some of the feelings the cousin is experiencing. Shane was a human being, a beloved young man by many. Many of us at his age of 21 were naive and still trying to find our way one way or another. Today he is not a case, today his family and friends begin to get him to his final resting place. And this is tragic. And if his deemed relative or a Kildaire's staff or even a patron said "Hey wait a minute I see your stumbling and not well let me get you home" we would not be on this board right now.

My heart aches for Shane as well as all of his family and friends who I don't even know and have never met. Thank God he is home with his loved ones and out of that cold, murky river. Just thinking of him being in that watery grave on a day like this brings tears to my eyes even now.

We can speculate and hypothesize all we want, however we will never know the real truth. Even his family and closest friends are left wondering how this could have happened. The one thing we can say for sure is that alcohol played an instrumental role in Shane's' untimely and tragic death.

 

[AlwaysOnTheCase]

Jonsey: I know words certainly feel inadequate at this time-
I feel I can speak for everyone on this thread.
Please accept our heartfelt sympathies and know you are not alone today.
Most of us will not be attending the services. Just know that we are all here supporting you in spirit.
Shane Montgomery has certainly touched all of us ...In one way or another.

 

[Eagles512]

I just don't see the suicide angle whatsoever. He knew that area. If he were suicidal, I don't think he's jumping off a ledge where an injury is a much more likely outcome than instant death. Even if he was drunk. If he was suicidal, he would go up to the Green Lane Bridge. I still haven't seen or read anything that makes me think anything but accident.

 

[takeittothebank]

I just don't see the suicide angle whatsoever. He knew that area. If he were suicidal, I don't think he's jumping off a ledge where an injury is a much more likely outcome than instant death. Even if he was drunk. If he was suicidal, he would go up to the Green Lane Bridge. I still haven't seen or read anything that makes me think anything but accident.

bolded by me,

I think the same could also be said for an accident, about him knowing the area and knowing not to get close to the water. I see what you're saying about the suicide angle not making sense, I said the same thing from the beginning, but then part of me thinks that suicide gives Shane a reason to be in that parking lot and near the water.

Every angle seems so weird which is why before I had thought the most obvious thing would be that he wasnt in the river and left by car.....

 

[Jonesy124]

I have said this many times and I will say it again, we cannot understand him being by the river's edge due to the cold, it wasn't in the direction of his home, etc. And I will say we I think we are anyway lol, thinking with a sober and rational minds. We know at the very least Shane was drinking several hours. We know he used MJ but unknown that if he did that evening. According to DetPac he was stumbling over the bridge. How conscious was he? And I cannot rule out he wasn't roughed up either by deemed relative/bouncer or even a patron, I cannot rule that out I am sorry. Or was he given substances willingly or unwillingly? Yes the parking lot is lit well we believe not sure what time the lights out but it was also extremely dark. We and I still can't rule this out the bouncer saying get the f out of here I don't want to see you as a reason leading him to the lot. Or if he was ill/needing to vomit/smoke/pee whatever again Shane was not operating on a sober mind. So it certainly can be an accident with contributing factors. Thank you for your sympathies, it's my closet family members that Shane was so close with and his parents and cousin. And the community as a whole too. But thank you.