GUILTY PA - Tom, 51, Lisa, 47, & Kevin Haines, 16, murdered, Manheim Twp, 12 May 2007

[PSUfan]

Well, we also know from watching all those crime shows that when there are numerous stab wounds it is usually done by someone who knew the victim very, very well.

Until I hear it announced that police have ruled out the daughter, she would be my main suspect. Not saying I would discount some messed up teenage friend of the son (Thinking of teenage neighbor Scott Dyleski who murdered attorney Daniel Horowitz's wife Pamela Vitale).

If and when police have ruled out the daughter, would they not announce that to the public? If they have not publicly announced that as of now, does that mean they are still looking at her as a possible suspect?

They have said that the daughter is cooperating fully and they have no reason to believe she is involved. (but they are keeping open minds).

Frankly, I am starting to think they are clueless. I heard from a reputable source that one of the bloodhounds alerted at the nearby convenience store. I wonder what they had the dog go off of? Were they able to point to a spot that was the perps scent? Or was the dog just alerting to the fathers scent because he may have stopped for milk (or something) on his way home from work that evening? Did the dog know to ignore the scents of the 3 family members?

 

[poco]

Good point. However, I can't envision a young woman using a knife to kill her entire family. Plus, as others have said, wouldn't she be covered in blood? At best, I think that she would have had someone do it.

Not if she commited the crime NAKED and then took a shower....

And, of course, her hair, DNA, etc would be in the shower drain - she lived there.

Who knows, but I hope they get some good leads on this thing!

 

[PSUfan]

Not if she commited the crime NAKED and then took a shower....

And, of course, her hair, DNA, etc would be in the shower drain - she lived there.

Who knows, but I hope they get some good leads on this thing!

Surely she would have marks on her though.. defensive wounds. The police said they are looking for someone with marks on them, which leads one to believe that they did find someone elses blood in the home. Not matching the familys blood.

 

[poco]

Surely she would have marks on her though.. defensive wounds. The police said they are looking for someone with marks on them, which leads one to believe that they did find someone elses blood in the home. Not matching the familys blood.

True..... although I don't really she think did it, I was just pointing out that there always is that possibility.

 

[PSUfan]

True..... although I don't really think did it, I was just pointing out that there always is that possibility.

Yeah, and the police have not officially ruled her out as a suspect. It is no longer even front page news, locally.

 

[poco]

Yeah, and the police have not officially ruled her out as a suspect. It is no longer even front page news, locally.

Were you by any chance living in Lancaster say about 10 years ago - a young woman was killed in her apartment complex - I believe she might have been a school teacher, but I'm not sure. This was over back off of 30 East - maybe off Greenfield Road. They never did find out who murdered her.

 

[PSUfan]

Were you by any chance living in Lancaster say about 10 years ago - a young woman was killed in her apartment complex - I believe she might have been a school teacher, but I'm not sure. This was over back off of 30 East - maybe off Greenfield Road. They never did find out who murdered her.

Oh yes.. I remember that clearly..Christy Mirack (sp?). It was brutal. And to cloud things, she was dating a married man, which only came out after her investigation. It was terrible.. her death. And it remains unsolved, and is a huge thorn in the police depts side. I remember when the Chief retired, that case was his biggest regret.. disappointment .. failure? He will take that one to his grave.

 

[Indigator]

Your story about Murack peaked my interest. I have not had a chance to read the website, but here is a link.
http://www.lipnews1.com/ChristyMirack26.html

 

[PSUfan]

More from www.wgal.com

This doesnt sound much different than what the detectives are investigating with the parents. The victimology angle. I am not sure why the victimology questions at the highschool are getting more press than the same questions that were asked about the parents, and probably the sister, as well.

The estimator that works from the same store that I work out of, was asked a dozen or more questions about the parents.. his impression of them. Were they both there when he measured the house, were they on the same page in the color choices, for the remodel. Did they seem to get along? And yes, they did get along. I am just not sure why the sons "victimology" questions at the highschool are getting the extra press.

MANHEIM TOWNSHIP, Pa. -- A major focus of the Haines family killings investigation is happening at Manheim Township High School, where victim Kevin Haines, 16, was a sophomore.Since Tom, Lisa and Kevin Haines were found dead in their Manheim Township home from stab wounds, investigators have been questioning students."We are hoping today we get a big break, and that we put a face to this crime," said Sgt. Thomas Rudzinski, of Manheim Township police. If you would like to hear today's complete, unedited interview with Rudzinski, click here.

/​

As police search for their classmate's killer, students take final exams at Manheim Township High School. Investigators are doing their own study called "victimology." It's a look into Kevin Haines' school life."We're just asking them when they last saw Kevin. What did Kevin like to do? What kind of person was Kevin? And could any of his friends have done this?" said Rudzinski.Investigators are also checking out tips from students.

 

[nanandjim]

Not if she commited the crime NAKED and then took a shower....

And, of course, her hair, DNA, etc would be in the shower drain - she lived there.

Who knows, but I hope they get some good leads on this thing!

I told an attorney at my gym about this story; and his initial reaction was what mine was about the daughter...that something isn't right with the story. He said what one other poster here said..."What if the daughter had a boyfriend that the parents didn't like? What if the boyfriend killed her family and left her alive? Maybe, the daughter knows who committed the crime and even went along with him."

Her story sounds strange at best. She is awakened by something going on in her brother's room. She stops by her parents' room and asks them what is going on. The father is lying across the bed and the mother is sitting on the edge of the bed, bent over. Her mother calmly whispers, "Go call for help." The mother says nothing about them being attacked???? Plus, how much time was the girl in the parents' room; and how the heck did she manage to get out of the house??

 

[KatK]

There are no cuts on the daughter, and there would be if she did it. There are cuts on one of the male HS students though.

 

[southerngirl]

SoccerMom, do you have the article that has the specific link to his blog? I don't get the daily paper, as I read it online, and I was unable to find the link online.

Also, Steve, I went to your blog, and maybe I was at the wrong place, but did you write about this crime on your blog? Could you provide a link? Thanks!

Here is a link to one of Steve's blogs; he has several. Scroll down a little and you will see Steve's story on the Haines' murder.

http://crimeblog.us/

 

[poco]

Oh yes.. I remember that clearly..Christy Mirack (sp?). It was brutal. And to cloud things, she was dating a married man, which only came out after her investigation. It was terrible.. her death. And it remains unsolved, and is a huge thorn in the police depts side. I remember when the Chief retired, that case was his biggest regret.. disappointment .. failure? He will take that one to his grave.

Yep, that's the one PSU. Her poor mother died without knowing who killed her daughter, what a shame. I was living in Lanc at the time this happened and it has stuck in my mind ever since. Wonder if it was ever on Unsolved Mysteries or one of those shows...

 

[fran]

IMHO, it may have been the comotion in her brother's room that woke the sister up and her first reaction may have been to go to her parent's room for help. When she saw the horror before her and her injurred mom told her to go get help, knowing the perp was still in the house and she was in danger, it would stand to reason she would run for her life to a neighbor's to summon police.

I think the person who did this may not have known the daughter was home from school which was why she wasn't targeted,.............that or she just got out before she was the next victim.

I do think it's a young person. Perhaps someone into games,............this being a result of playing these games and wanting to know, first hand, how it felt to actually kill someone.

You know, there have been many murders where the perp was asked 'Why?' and there answer was, "I just wanted to see how it felt to kill someone."

I believe LE is being tight-lipped as they're holding some evidence back that only the killer would know.

JMHO
fran

 

[Shadow205]

There are no cuts on the daughter, and there would be if she did it. There are cuts on one of the male HS students though.

There is?

 

[KatK]

There is?

Hmmm, well it isn't in the news stories that I have just re-read, (though I might have missed it) but Steve felt the lead was solid enough to post it in his entry. (Like maybe he checked where the commentor was from and verified it was from that area?)

 

[misterallgood]

Hmmm, well it isn't in the news stories that I have just re-read, (though I might have missed it) but Steve felt the lead was solid enough to post it in his entry. (Like maybe he checked where the commentor was from and verified it was from that area?)

The comment was left by someone who comes from that area -- the IP address jibed after a trace, as well. I've e-mailed with the person, too. They are in a good position to make that assertion.

Look, people can keep beating a drum of suspicion against the surviving Ms. Haines if they wish, (and I really am addressing anyone and everyone), but it's already a fact that police are focusing their investigation on Kevin Haines's school and his circle of friends. Something is up there, they know it, and they are digging.

A few days ago I came into some information that I felt compelled to send to the Manheim PD, and that information was connected to Kevin's circle of friends. One friend in particular. This friend has been absent from the Facebook memorial, and has even made a message board post online since the murders that wouldn't indicate anything was wrong in his life at all. The friend is a juvenile, so I won't go any further into it -- but suffice it to say, knowing what I know, the police are taking a tack that makes perfectly good sense.

I still hold out in my mind the slight possibility that it was a psycho stranger. I rejected that idea when the Groene children vanished, and I was flat wrong, there. So I have to admit that there are random and anonymous monsters in the world. But statistics are still more often in favor of the killer having some prior connection to the victims.

I can't say it just won't happen, but at this point, the most surprising outcome in my mind would be the finger of suspicion being pointed at Maggie Haines by the cops. I think they've probably exhausted all avenues of investigation where she is concerned, and if prompted, they may soon clear her completely.

Locals commenting at my blog and on message boards associated with local papers and TV stations are beginning to come to a consensus, too, and it appears that they all suspect a local teen, as well. They just don't know which one.

Steve/Mr. A

 

[Shadow205]

I don't have access to Facebook, I wish that I did. It sounds like you have a good source Steve. Keep us posted as & when you can.

 

[nanandjim]

...Look, people can keep beating a drum of suspicion against the surviving Ms. Haines if they wish...A few days ago I came into some information that I felt compelled to send to the Manheim PD, and that information was connected to Kevin's circle of friends...

Steve - It's much easier to make more accurate "guesses" as to what may have happened when you have additional information, as you appear to have. Regular folks, myself included, only have access to what is in the media.

That being said, I welcome your insight. It sounds like it may very well turn out to be someone who knew Kevin. Can you say if it may be someone who is in his Scout troop?

I believe that I read that you wouldn't be surprised if an older man were a catalyst (not your exact terms) . If so, do you think the older person could be a Scout leader? Do you think that a Scout leader feared being exposed for something and this younger kid did his bidding?

Just wondering...My mind wanders off on these tangents, which are usually farfetched and inaccurate.

 

[opme]

I came across this article remembering Kevin.. It has about 12 pictures from boyscout trips featuring kevin and 2-3 other boys.. some are obvious scouting trips to places like Pikes Peak while others look to be taken at jamborees (sp?) etc.. Obviously one of Kevin"s scouting friends provided these..

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=0A585C30-FE57-4FDA-B3A4-255EA34F8E08&gsa=true

I have to wonder if one of these photos is relevent to the local teen Steve mentions..
No scout masters or other adults seem to be in the photos.