Paperwork Details Elisa Baker’s Involvement In Investigation

[ynotdivein]

Practice may have come from other means (ie; a skilled hunter or virtual /online research). I don't believe LE would have never known what happened. I think we will find in time (like ICA....) that there were searches and conversations on computers that indicated what happened.

RBBM: bellyup, you give me hope here. I had forgotten that LE is surely in possession of cell phones and computers from AB, EB and perhaps others, and are hard at work pulling together that part of the story line.

As for practice, or how they figured out how to do what they did, I can perfectly well believe that these two figured it out without any practice. To my knowledge we don't know as fact that AB hunted, here or in AUS. But we DO know what line of work he has been in for the past 6 months. He had access to any number of tools that would help accomplish this gruesome task. They probably didn't make an elegant job of it, but they sure had access to the means of reducing evidence to pieces...

 

[Clue Hopper]

Practice may have come from other means (ie; a skilled hunter or virtual /online research). I don't believe LE would have never known what happened. I think we will find in time (like ICA....) that there were searches and conversations on computers that indicated what happened.

I believe this had to have hands on practice. Not virtual. There are extremities that come in. No VW could prepare you for. Just a gun shot wound alone is traumatic to see, and has more than you would expect from it. A gun shot isn't personal and hands on.

I just wonder if the smell the people in the previous address smelled came from an animal.

(I'm going to get sick again.)

 

[westsidefox64]

When is EB's court date again for the charges she is in jail for now?

I believe they both go to court on thursday the 18th.

 

[Lera213]

Thank you Westsidefox....I'll be glued to the computer on Thursday! Any locals going to try and be in court that day to watch and listen? Any media going to be there? I'm sure the local news crew will report huh?

 

[Kat]

If the child died of natural causes, there would have been absolutely no need to dismember her. This is a fact that you just can't get around.

Very true Belinda. Thank you.

As for bail reduction request, that's normal IMHO and if her attn's hadnt asked for one they might have been seen as remiss in their duties. IMHO.

It's just a part of the game. JMHO.

I'm not sure that the DP has been officially put "on the table" in order to be "taken off the table". A bit premature for that IMHO.

First one to talk gets the deal is usually how it goes...I wonder if that's the way it's going in this case?

Thanks to everyone that kept Zahra's threads up to date for the last two weeks. It made catching up for me very easy to do.

 

[Sherbie]

I believe this had to have hands on practice. Not virtual. There are extremities that come in. No VW could prepare you for. Just a gun shot wound alone is traumatic to see, and has more than you would expect from it. A gun shot isn't personal and hands on.

I just wonder if the smell the people in the previous address smelled came from an animal.

(I'm going to get sick again.)

So you're saying you think Zahra wasn't their only victim?

 

[Lera213]

I don't think you need knowledge on how to (sorry) dismember someone. All you need to know is how to start up a saw, or a be able to wield an ax.

I contend that she died shortly after her visit with them at the furniture store, because that painting and clean up took a while.

 

[Clue Hopper]

So you're saying you think Zahra wasn't their only victim?

If what you are asking is if I think animals fell victim, yes I do.

 

[technicalconfusion]

Just a gun shot wound alone is traumatic to see, and has more than you would expect from it. A gun shot isn't personal and hands on.

It depends on the gun used, I would think. I've been a witness to 2 shootings - one of which the victim was shot 8 times - and I was shocked at how little blood and outward damage there was. It was all internal in both cases.

Not that I'm going to run around testing my theory, mind you...just stating my reality.

 

[impatientredhead]

I don't think you need knowledge on how to (sorry) dismember someone. All you need to know is how to start up a saw, or a be able to wield an ax.

I contend that she died shortly after her visit with them at the furniture store, because that painting and clean up took a while.

Right, it is not easy to do "well".

It is not something a lay person could do and have the bones intact or the joints properly separated.

It is not easy to do without a ton of mess and effort.

But if you do manual labor and have access to industrial landscaping tools (chainsaw, axe, pry bars) it is not a difficult undertaking.

 

[impatientredhead]

Very true Belinda. Thank you.

As for bail reduction request, that's normal IMHO and if her attn's hadnt asked for one they might have been seen as remiss in their duties. IMHO.

It's just a part of the game. JMHO.

I'm not sure that the DP has been officially put "on the table" in order to be "taken off the table". A bit premature for that IMHO.

First one to talk gets the deal is usually how it goes...I wonder if that's the way it's going in this case?

Thanks to everyone that kept Zahra's threads up to date for the last two weeks. It made catching up for me very easy to do.

The request to have her bail reduced is something everyone should be happy to see. You want her to have adequate and competent legal representation from the beginning.

Especially when she is leading them to evidence. You do not want to leave an opening for them to block the evidence based on her not be represented in appropriate manner.

I don't think the DP has officially been taken of the table, but I don't think this case is going to lean towards a DP case to begin with. They can kind of hang that out as a carrot but one that has no real value to the state if they didn't plan to go after it to begin with.

She will strike an official deal when they secure an agreement for her to testify against him. Right now they need her to testify. EB knew where the evidence was, all the witness place her as the abuser before death, they don't have a ton on him right now. They will need her as a witness IMO.

But the lack of evidence of who actually killed her, the he said she said, and them both being willing to say they were involved in the post death events but not the death I think will prevent the state from making this a capital case. Not impossible, but I think you will see a plea deal from at least one of them.

 

[tk71texas]

i should have never read this thread while eating lunch....i think imma be sick


rip zahra

 

[vjlaw]

Right, it is not easy to do "well".

It is not something a lay person could do and have the bones intact or the joints properly separated.

It is not easy to do without a ton of mess and effort.

But if you do manual labor and have access to industrial landscaping tools (chainsaw, axe, pry bars) it is not a difficult undertaking.

The size of the mess would be determined by what stage of the death the body was in. For instance, had rigor set in or bloating. How did these two determine she was dead. Neither are medical people, so I have to wonder if it was obvious to them she was dead. That is of course IF she died of an illness and they found her. No matter how she died though, they had to determine she was dead. jmo

 

[raisincharlie]

Practice may have come from other means (ie; a skilled hunter or virtual /online research). I don't believe LE would have never known what happened. I think we will find in time (like ICA....) that there were searches and conversations on computers that indicated what happened.

Online research, I suspect you are correct, it could be found if looked for long enough. I can cite a case where a woman learned online how to perform a C-section just so she could steal a baby. She did it, baby fine, Mum dead, baby stolen and transported out of state. The internet is full of information I agree. Computer forensics of the victim's computers led to the perp and the baby, the perps computer revealed the research undertaken. It happens.

 

[epiphany]

There is something macabre and psychopathic about choosing to dismember an amputee who is one's child. Only individuals clinically obsessed with the grotesque would follow-through with such a well-planned, time-consuming monstrous undertaking.

 

[bellyup]

I believe this had to have hands on practice. Not virtual. There are extremities that come in. No VW could prepare you for. Just a gun shot wound alone is traumatic to see, and has more than you would expect from it. A gun shot isn't personal and hands on.

I just wonder if the smell the people in the previous address smelled came from an animal.

(I'm going to get sick again.)

There are websites out there that sadly will give a play by play. You can even act it out fully and it will detail what "problems" can arise. It's sickening... :sick: There are also websites that go into details about how previous crimes were committed and where they went "wrong".

 

[impatientredhead]

2005 North Carolina Code - General Statutes � 14-7. Accessories after the fact; trial and punishment.

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North Carolina 2005 Code All US State Codes � 14‑7.� Accessories after the fact; trial and punishment.
If any person shall become an accessory after the fact to any felony, whether the same be a felony at common law or by virtue of any statute made, or to be made, such person shall be guilty of a crime, and may be indicted and convicted together with the principal felon, or after the conviction of the principal felon, or may be indicted and convicted for such crime whether the principal felon shall or shall not have been previously convicted, or shall or shall not be amenable to justice. Unless a different classification is expressly stated, that person shall be punished for an offense that is two classes lower than the felony the principal felon committed, except that an accessory after the fact to a Class A or Class B1 felony is a Class C felony, an accessory after the fact to a Class B2 felony is a Class D felony, an accessory after the fact to a Class H felony is a Class 1 misdemeanor, and an accessory after the fact to a Class I felony is a Class 2 misdemeanor. The offense of such person may be inquired of, tried, determined and punished by any court which shall have jurisdiction of the principal felon, in the same manner as if the act, by reason whereof such person shall have become an accessory, had been committed at the same place as the principal felony, although such act may have been committed without the limits of the State; and in case the principal felony shall have been committed within the body of any county, and the act by reason whereof any person shall have become accessory shall have been committed within the body of any other county, the offense of such person guilty of a felony as aforesaid may be inquired of, tried, determined, and punished in either of said counties: Provided, that no person who shall be once duly tried for such felony shall be again indicted or tried for the same offense. (1797, c. 485, s. 1, P.R.; 1852, c. 58; R.C., c. 34, s. 54; Code, s. 978; Rev., s. 3289; C.S., s. 4177; 1979, c. 760, s. 5; 1979, 2nd Sess., c. 1316, s. 47; 1981, c. 63, s. 1; c. 179, s. 14; 1997‑443, s. 19.25(p).)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The request to have her bail reduced is something everyone should be happy to see. You want her to have adequate and competent legal representation from the beginning.

Especially when she is leading them to evidence. You do not want to leave an opening for them to block the evidence based on her not be represented in appropriate manner.

I don't think the DP has officially been taken of the table, but I don't think this case is going to lean towards a DP case to begin with. They can kind of hang that out as a carrot but one that has no real value to the state if they didn't plan to go after it to begin with.

She will strike an official deal when they secure an agreement for her to testify against him. Right now they need her to testify. EB knew where the evidence was, all the witness place her as the abuser before death, they don't have a ton on him right now. They will need her as a witness IMO.

But the lack of evidence of who actually killed her, the he said she said, and them both being willing to say they were involved in the post death events but not the death I think will prevent the state from making this a capital case. Not impossible, but I think you will see a plea deal from at least one of them.

I'm curious to hear how you think this might go if LE can only tie both to the disposal. If no cause of death can be determined due to the condition of the body, do you think the state could make a case against one or the other based on circumstantial evidence?

As I've said many times before, law is not my strong suit, so I may not even be asking the question intelligently. :waitasec:

 

[songline]

EVEN CANIBALS don’t dismember their own. :waitasec:
I don’t think so :waitasec:
:furious::furious::furious:

 

[impatientredhead]

Okay- I found the accessory after the fact for North Carolina.

Abuse of a corpse is generally a misdemeanor offense, but I cannot find an actual statue for it NC anyway, but it is generally a very minor offense all things considered.

The issue at hand is really accessory after the fact because the motivation to abuse the corpse and disperse the remains was to cover up the original criminal act (which has yet to be identified by a criminal statute, manslaughter, premeditated homicide etc....).

But in NC she is angling to be an accessory turned witness, which would get her charged two levels underneath whatever they charge Adam with (which is why she is saying he didn't intentionally kill her because she benefits from a more benign cause of death) and then will ask for leniency due to her cooperation and witness statements leading to his conviction.