Patsy and the 911 Call

[Zman]

My advice is to limit your list of 'available' evidence to the ransom note, the published version of the Lee autopsy, the 911 call (less the 'enhancement'), and the published photos of the garrote.

I'm not sure the DNA is primary evidence, but it is interesting, and how RDI'ers cope with it is also interesting.

I'm not trusting any other so-called evidence, including the pineapple, the flashlight, the baseball bat, the window, who after the fact lied, covered up, didn't cooperate, or did something suspicious.

You're probably not going to hang the perp on the after-the-fact stuff. You could hang the perp with handwriting, DNA, profile, or something to do with the garrote (the murder weapon).


FW didn't do it. Anyone connected to the R's, who is willing to kill a 6 year old, isn't going to leave 3 pages of handwriting for analysis.

Well I have to include the pineapple because the autopsy says its the last thing in her system.

I try only to look at what is available and disregard any "made up evidence" even if it's made up by police.

I would also include the interviews the R's gave to the police to your list as 'available' evidence

 

[capps]

Well I have to include the pineapple because the autopsy says its the last thing in her system.

I try only to look at what is available and disregard any "made up evidence" even if it's made up by police.

I would also include the interviews the R's gave to the police to your list as 'available' evidence

Zman,

Why stop there ... why not also disregard the coroners'finding of pineapple in JonBenets' system too.

 

[simplesimon]

I agree.

I don't pretend to know who killed JBR and why.
I only know from the evidence presented to me (or available)it was not a R.
I really don't think FW did it but I find him a very suspicious character. I do think its more likely FWDI then RDI.

ZMAN,
I want to know why you think FWDI? What proof is there? JB was found in her basement with Patsy's paint brushes,BR's knife and a hi_tech boot print as part of the evidence collected. You discount all of that but assume FW was there.
NO One knows what happened and I certainly have a hard time suspecting BR or the R"s as it is just so confusing and BRUTAL.But some of the evidence makes it hard to discount the family.
However I have yet to see why people think FW was involved.

 

[Zman]

ZMAN,
I want to know why you think FWDI? What proof is there? JB was found in her basement with Patsy's paint brushes,BR's knife and a hi_tech boot print as part of the evidence collected. You discount all of that but assume FW was there.
NO One knows what happened and I certainly have a hard time suspecting BR or the R"s as it is just so confusing and BRUTAL.But some of the evidence makes it hard to discount the family.
However I have yet to see why people think FW was involved.

I really don't think I'm all that confusing about my posistion.

I don't think FWDI I just think that it's more likely him then a R'. What do you mean assume FW was there? FW said he checked the room earlier in the morning and saw nothing. I'm not putting words in his mouth. Now maybe he really didn't look in the room or maybe he did just miss seeing her but on paper it looks like a lie doesn't it? He is a close friend and probably has great knowledge and access of the R home and some of it's secrets.
Although there are other reasons that lead me to IDI theory I need to know only one thing to know the R's didn't do it.
They did not write the RN.
I am convinced.

 

[Zman]

Zman,

Why stop there ... why not also disregard the coroners'finding of pineapple in JonBenets' system too.

Because I can read the report. It's an official document. Why would I disregard it?

 

[capps]

Because I can read the report. It's an official document. Why would I disregard it?

Calm down Zman ... it was a joke.

 

[Rupert]

So why are the Ramseys lying their heads off beginning on day one and lasting to this day, refusing to answer questions, refusing to cooperate with the investigation, and covering up? They're protecting someone. Are you telling me they're protecting an intruder? Pleeeeeeeeease.

BlueCrab,
I am not aware of any Ramsay lies uncovered by the BPD and stated in public. Are there some? You are pretty strong on this, so maybe you can point something out that I have missed. I understand about protecting oneself with lawyers, if there are lies, then I won't be sitting on this fence anymore.

 

[Zman]

Calm down Zman ... it was a joke.

Ahhhhhhh humor! I Missed it. To defensive lately I guess.

 

[aussiesheila]

I agree.

I don't pretend to know who killed JBR and why.
I only know from the evidence presented to me (or available)it was not a R.
I really don't think FW did it but I find him a very suspicious character. I do think its more likely FWDI then RDI.

Zman, every time I mention that I think FW acted suspiciously people seem to immediately think I mean that I think he is either the or one of the killers of JonBenet. Sorry Zman I don't mean to imply that you are one of them, I'm just taking this opportunity to have a go at those who do think this.

I DO NOT think that FW was present at, or involved in the murder of JonBenet and have never thought so. I DO think he was involved in the coverup, in fact I think he was the mastermind of the coverup. I think as a fellow pedophile it was in his interest to cover up for other pedophiles in the Boulder community who were involved in her murder.

I think that was why, after giving instructions by phone at around 3 am to the killers to hide JonBenet's body and write a ransom note to make it look like a kidnapping, he raced around to the Ramsey's as soon as he received the phone call from Patsy. No-one seems to think it strange that he, together with his wife as well as one of his house guests arrived within minutes of the early morning call. They all arrived so soon after they must have been fully dressed and waiting for the call.

Then almost immediately after he arrived he went straight downstairs to the basement, not a priority thing to do as a concerned man rushing over to console his best friend and his wife I would have thought. Rather it seems to me that he was very anxious to check that all was in order in the basement, that all the evidence had been cleared away and that the body was well hidden.

Back upstairs, he indulged in all the frantic note taking, very likely keeping a record of everything people said and did so that he could weave it all into a plausible story. I think he was very worried because the police were not supposed to be there, I think he had tried to stop the Ramseys from calling the police with the threats included in the note, but Patsy hadn't done as she was instructed so right from the beginning his coverup plan didn't go too well making him very nervous.

Another bit of behaviour that first day that I think was suspicious, was just after John found the body, FW came racing upstairs apparently in a panic and went straight to the phone and dialled a number. He then changed his mind, hung up and yelled for someone ELSE to call an ambulance. So what number did he call? Not the ambulance number it seems. Was it his special connection in the BPD that he wanted to alert to the new development? Whoever it was it seems he suddenly became aware that everyone would overhear the conversation and realised that it would be a mistake to make the call.

That is all according to my theory

 

[aussiesheila]

BlueCrab,
I am not aware of any Ramsay lies uncovered by the BPD and stated in public. Are there some? You are pretty strong on this, so maybe you can point something out that I have missed. I understand about protecting oneself with lawyers, if there are lies, then I won't be sitting on this fence anymore.

I am so totally with you on this Rupert, I'm sure I have had a go at BlueCrab on this issue before, and so have others but BlueCrab just keeps on keeping on...

 

[Jayelles]

I am so totally with you on this Rupert, I'm sure I have had a go at BlueCrab on this issue before, and so have others but BlueCrab just keeps on keeping on...

There are several Ramsey lies/inconsistencies which have been hashed over and over. I'm sure if you searched the forum for Ramsey + lies you would find the threads.

 

[simplesimon]

I really don't think I'm all that confusing about my posistion.

I don't think FWDI I just think that it's more likely him then a R'. What do you mean assume FW was there? FW said he checked the room earlier in the morning and saw nothing. I'm not putting words in his mouth. Now maybe he really didn't look in the room or maybe he did just miss seeing her but on paper it looks like a lie doesn't it? He is a close friend and probably has great knowledge and access of the R home and some of it's secrets.
Although there are other reasons that lead me to IDI theory I need to know only one thing to know the R's didn't do it.
They did not write the RN.
I am convinced.

Zman,
I did not mean I was confused about your position. I find the murder evidence confusing.
I find everyone's theory interesting however, they are all theories. If I try to justify a R did it ,the murder itself or cover-up is just so brutal I have a hard time buying it. If I think Br did it, it is hard to swallow a 9yr old committing it. When I try the IDI theory I am hung up on the note, which then leads me back to the R's.
I really think it was an accident and staged cover-up.
I personally do not think FW acted suspicious or is connected in any way to this.
BUT that is just my opinion.
Don't be so defensive, I am not trying to argue with anyone. I respect everyones theory as I can see lots of time and thought have went into them.
I find it very informative to keep an open mind and to keep delving into the case.
Thanks,
SS

 

[BlueCrab]

BlueCrab,
I am not aware of any Ramsay lies uncovered by the BPD and stated in public. Are there some? You are pretty strong on this, so maybe you can point something out that I have missed. I understand about protecting oneself with lawyers, if there are lies, then I won't be sitting on this fence anymore.

Rupert,

There's a long string of lies by the Ramseys, starting on day one and lasting to this day, and all of them incriminating.

For instance, in separate interviews all three Ramseys lied to the police about Burke being in bed until 7:00 AM, but during the 911 call at 5:52 AM Burke was heard downstairs on the enhanced tape carrying on a conversation with John and Patsy. The Ramseys had conspired among the three of them to tell the cops the same lie. The lie was intended to distance Burke from the crime. Why would the three surviving family members conspire to deliberately lie to the police during the murder investigation of JonBenet?

And why would the Ramseys deliberately lie and send the cops on a nationwide hunt for a Santa Bear when the Ramseys knew all along where the bear was? The Santa Bear was in the Ramseys house after being stolen from the crime scene by Pam Paugh, but the Ramseys let the police and even the whole nation (10,000 hits on the internet about where it might be) look for it as the Ramseys stayed smugly quiet. The Ramseys acted as if they didn't know where the Santa Bear came from -- implying an intruder used it to lure JonBenet from her bed -- but the truth is both Ramseys had been present when the Bear was won by JonBenet at a pageant about one week before she died. It was JonBenet's last award she won.

The list of lies goes on and on, and convinces me the Ramseys are engaged in a coverup to protect someone in the family.

BlueCrab

 

[tipper]

Rupert,

There's a long string of lies by the Ramseys, starting on day one and lasting to this day, and all of them incriminating.

For instance, in separate interviews all three Ramseys lied to the police about Burke being in bed until 7:00 AM, but during the 911 call at 5:52 AM Burke was heard downstairs on the enhanced tape carrying on a conversation with John and Patsy. The Ramseys had conspired among the three of them to tell the cops the same lie. The lie was intended to distance Burke from the crime. Why would the three surviving family members conspire to deliberately lie to the police during the murder investigation of JonBenet?

And why would the Ramseys deliberately lie and send the cops on a nationwide hunt for a Santa Bear when the Ramseys knew all along where the bear was? The Santa Bear was in the Ramseys house after being stolen from the crime scene by Pam Paugh, but the Ramseys let the police and even the whole nation (10,000 hits on the internet about where it might be) look for it as the Ramseys stayed smugly quiet. The Ramseys acted as if they didn't know where the Santa Bear came from -- implying an intruder used it to lure JonBenet from her bed -- but the truth is both Ramseys had been present when the Bear was won by JonBenet at a pageant about one week before she died. It was JonBenet's last award she won.

The list of lies goes on and on, and convinces me the Ramseys are engaged in a coverup to protect someone in the family.

BlueCrab

You are being disingenuous again about the tape. You haven't heard it and neither has anyone here. You know that not everyone who has listened to the tape agrees Burke's voice is there. It is not as cut and dried an issue as you keep trying to present. I think it is wrong to keep saying it "proves "anything.

As far as the bear goes - it was the Ramseys who had someone go through the boxes of JonBenet's things that were stored at Nedra's looking for the bear. They were the ones who produced it. Patsy never did remember the bear even after seeing it. Her memory is that JohBenet had been given an angel bear at that pageant on the 14th. Apparently her memory is wrong but that is what she remembered. John also didn't remember it but he wasn't present when it was given to her. In the interview he says:
21 I mean, we had fully expected
22 that, if someone had given it to her, that
23 they would come forward and say, oh, yes, I
24 gave that to JonBenet. That explains that. "


http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=4665

I can't remember - Was it the Ramseys or BPD who set up a nationwide hunt for the bear? If it was the Ramseys - Why would they use a publically given prize as their red herring? If it was BPD - Why should the Ramseys be blamed for an action taken by the police?

 

[michelle]

Does anyone have a link for this i cant find it anywhere, i dont remember ever hearing it......Also have i read that burke was heard in the back ground on this call, if thats so didnt they say he was asleep?? Thanks!!

 

[narlacat]

Hi Michelle

There is a thread about the 911 call....you will most probably find the link or where to go to find it in there. It is a pretty current thread, I remember someone asked me wher they could find the link and I directed them, but I forget now!
It is a huge debate whether or not Burke's voice is on the tape. Some people even question if there is such a tape. I tend to think there is, and I tend to think Burke's voice is on it, when, yes, he was supposed to have been asleep.

 

[narlacat]

Derby

I'm just trying to remember where I downloaded the 911 call from. I'm thinking it was over at FFJ forum. Will go check and edit this to let you know.

http://www.jonbenetramsey.org/patsy911-FFJ.mp3

ok, hopefully that link will work.
Edit to add again, it didnt work for me just then but I'm having computa problems ,so maybe it will work for you.

Michelle
I found it.

 

[michelle]

Thanks i will look in that thread....

 

[sissi]

In many districts 911 tapes are recycled, cleaned to a degree that allows for reuse. The scrutiny of the fbi, cbi and others could find no conversation at the end, leaving the finding of aerospace up for suspicion. I suspect, IF, there is any discernable sound on the end of the tape it would , likely ,be left over noise.

 

[Eagle1]

That's a good way of putting it. Probably Burke did wake up, when they naturally thought he was asleep. No biggie. Didn't one of the book authors say that Burke was asked if he heard anything during the night, and he said voices?

Probably he meant the 911 call voices, or, before that, Patsy calling John from downstairs when she found the note, right? Or do you have a better idea re when he could have heard voices? I'm all ears.