Patsy and the 911 Call

[sissi]

I'm reasonably certain a child of his age would hear the commotion going on in the house, however, a child who feels secure in his environment may not "get up" to inquire , he would expect the adults to handle it (whatever it is).
I stand by my belief that the tape was recycled, that previous calls could be picked up with hi-tec scanning,and add " the FACT "they did NOT bring forth a control tape to put this kind of possibility to "rest" proves to me LE is again lying.

 

[Jayelles]

I'm reasonably certain a child of his age would hear the commotion going on in the house, however, a child who feels secure in his environment may not "get up" to inquire , he would expect the adults to handle it (whatever it is).
I stand by my belief that the tape was recycled, that previous calls could be picked up with hi-tec scanning,and add " the FACT "they did NOT bring forth a control tape to put this kind of possibility to "rest" proves to me LE is again lying.

I absolutely disagree Sissi - I think a child who stays in bed and "pretends" to be asleep is not demonstrating that he is secure in his environment. Quite the opposite. IMO, that Burke pretended to be asleep suggests that shouting was perhaps not an unusual occurrence in the Ramsey household. A child who is unafraid of his parents would go downstairs and say "What's going on? What did you find?" - i.e. the words which are claimed to be on the 911 tape.

I don't think the Ramsey household was an abusive one - which is why I believe that it is more believable that Burke's voice IS on the 911 tape than that he pretended to be asleep in his room. I find the latter far more sinister.

Edited to say:- do a google search for children pretending to be asleep and the results ALL have negative connotations. Children pretend to be asleep when they are afraid - not when they are comfortable in their environment.

Also remember that Burke wasn't 4/5, he was 10 years old. If he DID pretend to be asleep, then IMO he was either afraid of his parents OR the shouting wasn't an unusual occurrence. I do not think he was in bed pretending to be asleep. I think he initially went downstairs and was sent back upstairs by John Ramsey.

IMO, Burke's voice on the 911 is not indicative of his guilt.

 

[T'sNana]

I agree.

I absolutely disagree Sissi - I think a child who stays in bed and "pretends" to be asleep is not demonstrating that he is secure in his environment. Quite the opposite. IMO, that Burke pretended to be asleep suggests that shouting was perhaps not an unusual occurrence in the Ramsey household. A child who is unafraid of his parents would go downstairs and say "What's going on? What did you find?" - i.e. the words which are claimed to be on the 911 tape.

I don't think the Ramsey household was an abusive one - which is why I believe that it is more believable that Burke's voice IS on the 911 tape than that he pretended to be asleep in his room. I find the latter far more sinister.

Edited to say:- do a google search for children pretending to be asleep and the results ALL have negative connotations. Children pretend to be asleep when they are afraid - not when they are comfortable in their environment.

Also remember that Burke wasn't 4/5, he was 10 years old. If he DID pretend to be asleep, then IMO he was either afraid of his parents OR the shouting wasn't an unusual occurrence. I do not think he was in bed pretending to be asleep. I think he initially went downstairs and was sent back upstairs by John Ramsey.

IMO, Burke's voice on the 911 is not indicative of his guilt.

 

[BlueCrab]

Burke pretending to be asleep is a red herring. It's irrelevant. What's important is BURKE WAS DOWNSTAIRS AT 5:52 AM DURING THE 911 CALL.

The enhanced final 4 seconds of the 911 tape contained the voices of Patsy, John, and Burke -- all of whom were in the kitchen and continuing a conversation that had obviously begun long before the 911 call was initiated. This is borne out by John's harsh voice in the tape directed at Burke, "We're not talking to you!"

Burke was the only person sleeping on the same floor as JonBenet that night. If the Ramseys were honestly searching for a missing JonBenet as they claim, why would their first comment to Burke be "We're not talking to you!"

Aso, all three Ramseys, who didn't know the cops had them on tape, lied during their individual interviews about Burke being in bed asleep until 7:00 AM. When finally confronted with the tape evidence they changed their story to say Burke was faking sleep. But that doesn't change the fact that the 911 tape proved Burke was DOWNSTAIRS at 5:52 AM, and therefore not even "faking" sleep (which is irrelevant anyway).

The lie the three Ramseys conspiratorily agreed upon ahead of time (all three answered the question the same way), but were trapped by the tape, shows they were hiding something significant from the cops. Why lie to the cops during a murder investigation if you aren't somehow involved in the murder?

BlueCrab

 

[hollyjokers]

Eric Menendez sure sounded genuinely distraught when he called 911... I think people forget the obvious: PR is a flake to the nth degree. Who can make sense of anything she says or doesn't say? If you come downstairs & find a 3 page RN & your 6-yr old child missing from her bed, do you actually read all 3 pages? Even if you do, are you capable of absorbing the words on the paper? I'm thinking I would not. Being somewhat of a flake myself I think I would be dazed & out of it, unable to fully comprehend. Would you expect them to just sit there for 4 hrs waiting for a phone call? How could you not call 911? If BR was up or not, I don't know. Are you going to fill your 9-yr old son in all the details right away, or once you realize he has no knowlege of anything, do you try to protect him? Probably the wrong thing to do in this case, but under the circumstances how do you know what to do? I just think people do not like PR, so no matter what action she took, didn't take, said, didn't say, is viewed to be completely inappropriate. Perhaps her request "& bring someone" was a thought that they should get people canvass the neighborhoods. She's not my favorite person either, but bottom line, I just do not see her capable of killing her daughter, accident or not, then staging that elaborate horror scene on top of it. Nor do I believe she would participate in a cover-up for any other immediate family member. Who could do that? Not PR, & not JR either. I think JR's mistake lay in thinking he needed to control everything, the investigation, the media. Its a coping mechanism: he doesn't want to sit around & think about what happened to his baby, he has to move & consult with people & it just made him look bad.
I don't know who the killer is , a pedophile, or a vendetta against JR. I just firmly believe IDI.

 

[Camper]

Consider a stage play, when the actors need to know

a. Do they enter stage left or stage right, er a door in the middle of the scenery.

I am wondering today about something that never ocurred to me before.

WE are told that Patsy went downstairs to make coffee and stepped over the note, er something sorta like that.

question, I don't remember IF Patsy got up first, I seem to remember that she did. IF this is so, then John was still in bed. WHEN DID he get into the shower??

WE are told that he was in a stage of wet undress, (was he IN the shower at that moment or JUST OUT), when he heard PR holler, which was it?

WE are told that WHEN she knew what the note was about, she screamed/hollered for John.

WE are told that John WAS in the shower.

WE are told by folks, including BlueCrab and a host of others, that during the accidental none hung up phone fiasco, a voice thought to be Burke was heard asking 'what did you find' and/er 'what can I do'. Supposedly John is heard saying WE are NOT talking to you.

The timing is off! The staged performance needs some re working. IF JOHN came down the stairs and is spread eagled on the floor reading the note, in his skivvies/towel (refresh me on the clothing he is wearing) WHY would he respond in such a manner to the young boy?

Seems like the young boy would have said, 'Dad, how come you are not dressed' er. With all of the loud hollering by Patsy, it seems to me that a ten year old would have been there faster than JOHN.

IF all that we are told is true, the young boy would most likely have shown up in the second floor hallway, with Patsy hollering for John who WAS IN THE SHOWER, and that BURKE would have asked the questions BEFORE he was on the first floor.

WE have a husband (TAKING A SHOWER with water slapping him in the face etc. I don't know about the rest of you BUT when I am in the shower, the house could burn down, with firemen banging their axes in the next room and I would NOT hear them. I have perfect hearing, it was tested three months ago.

SO, PR read the note, to know what the deal was, YET no fingerprints on it, and she must have THROWN THE NOTE TO THE FLOOR for JOHN to read later, huh, er? I have forgotten the 'state' presence of where the note was, and how it got to wherever all it had been. It was in pristine condition, which was quite a feat in itself.

THEN as I recall Patsy goes to JonBenets room and looks in, JOHN is on the third floor IN the SHOWER. WE don't know IF he was still IN or was OUT at that moment in time. I don't recall that Patsy went up to the third floor, BUT if JOHN was still in the shower, I think she would have to have opened the door to HIS bathroom in order for hime to have heard her holler.

WE are told that when he read the NOTE he was spread eagled on the first floor doing so.

JUST when did the young boy come downstairs to ASK the questions on the non hung up call? Seems like he would have come down the hall to find out what the commotion was, AND would have still been on the SECOND floor when JOHN came rushing out.

YET R's said he was asleep, just when DID he wake up and come down the hall or stairs to ASK those questions that were supposed to be on the 911 tape? Couple years later the R's admitted that he maybe was NOT asleep.

DID the young boy arrive from THE BASEMENT TO ASK, OR where was he coming FROM when he is supposedly heard on the 911 non hung up call?

NOW then IF the call was made from the hall kitchen phone, the words heard are more suspicious to me. Refresh my memory on whether WE know IF the kitchen hall area phone was used for the 911 call.

I am just recalling about when I was 10 years old, I wanted to know everything that was happening, to be where the action was. Maybe I was just ODD.

Just some thoughts that came up today after so long a time.

This thought does not cast suspicion on the young boy, and WHY would JOHN say, WE ARE NOT TALKING TO YOU. MY question is WHY NOT talk to the boy, WHY NOT SAY, 'son just go to your room everything is going to be alright'?

WHERE and what did the young boy do, after his dad says, WE are not talking to you, was he still within earshot when ALL of the additional phone calls were made to have 'the fleet of friends come over?

IF the young boy was NOT sleeping as the R's later admitted he was most likely NOT sleeping. WHEN did the R's prep the boy for going to Fleet Whites. JOHN knew that JonBenets body would be found, and did not want his son there to see it. HOW would JOHN know that, IF he had NOT been to the basement BEFORE the police came and found the body.

According to the stage presentation, JOHN had only read the note, he did not know WHERE in the world Jon Benet was. SO why send the boy away?

Why not have him stay at home UPSTAIRS WITH A FAMILY friend and play a game, or get him something to eat. The house was plenty big enough to do that for the young son.

I am thinking, but I could be wrong, IF I am wrong someone will give us a source for my correction. I am thinking that the friends were called before the police were called.

DID the police come from the station OR was it a 'CAR 54 Where Are You', and they came from farther away. That information would be in the police info wouldn't it, whether LE came from a close station OR was it on patrol somewhere else. I don't know where a dispatched car would have come from as far as a local station, how far was the closest station to the Ramsey home, OR did the dispatcher call on a car that was already in their area?

I could go on and on, sorry one question just leads to another.

===========================

-no baby yet.

 

[hollyjokers]

Consider a stage play, when the actors need to know

a. Do they enter stage left or stage right, er a door in the middle of the scenery.

I am wondering today about something that never ocurred to me before.

WE are told that Patsy went downstairs to make coffee and stepped over the note, er something sorta like that.

question, I don't remember IF Patsy got up first, I seem to remember that she did. IF this is so, then John was still in bed. WHEN DID he get into the shower??

WE are told that he was in a stage of wet undress, (was he IN the shower at that moment or JUST OUT), when he heard PR holler, which was it?

WE are told that WHEN she knew what the note was about, she screamed/hollered for John.

WE are told that John WAS in the shower.

WE are told by folks, including BlueCrab and a host of others, that during the accidental none hung up phone fiasco, a voice thought to be Burke was heard asking 'what did you find' and/er 'what can I do'. Supposedly John is heard saying WE are NOT talking to you.

The timing is off! The staged performance needs some re working. IF JOHN came down the stairs and is spread eagled on the floor reading the note, in his skivvies/towel (refresh me on the clothing he is wearing) WHY would he respond in such a manner to the young boy?

Seems like the young boy would have said, 'Dad, how come you are not dressed' er. With all of the loud hollering by Patsy, it seems to me that a ten year old would have been there faster than JOHN.

IF all that we are told is true, the young boy would most likely have shown up in the second floor hallway, with Patsy hollering for John who WAS IN THE SHOWER, and that BURKE would have asked the questions BEFORE he was on the first floor.

WE have a husband (TAKING A SHOWER with water slapping him in the face etc. I don't know about the rest of you BUT when I am in the shower, the house could burn down, with firemen banging their axes in the next room and I would NOT hear them. I have perfect hearing, it was tested three months ago.

SO, PR read the note, to know what the deal was, YET no fingerprints on it, and she must have THROWN THE NOTE TO THE FLOOR for JOHN to read later, huh, er? I have forgotten the 'state' presence of where the note was, and how it got to wherever all it had been. It was in pristine condition, which was quite a feat in itself.

THEN as I recall Patsy goes to JonBenets room and looks in, JOHN is on the third floor IN the SHOWER. WE don't know IF he was still IN or was OUT at that moment in time. I don't recall that Patsy went up to the third floor, BUT if JOHN was still in the shower, I think she would have to have opened the door to HIS bathroom in order for hime to have heard her holler.

WE are told that when he read the NOTE he was spread eagled on the first floor doing so.

JUST when did the young boy come downstairs to ASK the questions on the non hung up call? Seems like he would have come down the hall to find out what the commotion was, AND would have still been on the SECOND floor when JOHN came rushing out.

YET R's said he was asleep, just when DID he wake up and come down the hall or stairs to ASK those questions that were supposed to be on the 911 tape? Couple years later the R's admitted that he maybe was NOT asleep.

DID the young boy arrive from THE BASEMENT TO ASK, OR where was he coming FROM when he is supposedly heard on the 911 non hung up call?

NOW then IF the call was made from the hall kitchen phone, the words heard are more suspicious to me. Refresh my memory on whether WE know IF the kitchen hall area phone was used for the 911 call.

I am just recalling about when I was 10 years old, I wanted to know everything that was happening, to be where the action was. Maybe I was just ODD.

Just some thoughts that came up today after so long a time.

This thought does not cast suspicion on the young boy, and WHY would JOHN say, WE ARE NOT TALKING TO YOU. MY question is WHY NOT talk to the boy, WHY NOT SAY, 'son just go to your room everything is going to be alright'?

WHERE and what did the young boy do, after his dad says, WE are not talking to you, was he still within earshot when ALL of the additional phone calls were made to have 'the fleet of friends come over?

IF the young boy was NOT sleeping as the R's later admitted he was most likely NOT sleeping. WHEN did the R's prep the boy for going to Fleet Whites. JOHN knew that JonBenets body would be found, and did not want his son there to see it. HOW would JOHN know that, IF he had NOT been to the basement BEFORE the police came and found the body.

According to the stage presentation, JOHN had only read the note, he did not know WHERE in the world Jon Benet was. SO why send the boy away?

Why not have him stay at home UPSTAIRS WITH A FAMILY friend and play a game, or get him something to eat. The house was plenty big enough to do that for the young son.

I am thinking, but I could be wrong, IF I am wrong someone will give us a source for my correction. I am thinking that the friends were called before the police were called.

DID the police come from the station OR was it a 'CAR 54 Where Are You', and they came from farther away. That information would be in the police info wouldn't it, whether LE came from a close station OR was it on patrol somewhere else. I don't know where a dispatched car would have come from as far as a local station, how far was the closest station to the Ramsey home, OR did the dispatcher call on a car that was already in their area?

I could go on and on, sorry one question just leads to another.

===========================

-no baby yet.

Forgive me I haven't fully digested all of your points but here's what came to mind.
Did the Ramsey's have an intercom system in the house? 7000 sq ft I think it would come in handy. Could have made getting John's attention easier.

Sending Burke off to the Whites - Would you want your son in the house while police are combing through, while you are discussing kidnapping, a ransom note that mentions beheading & killing his sister? You said yourself as a 10-yr old you would have been curious with all of the commotion & I doubt he would have been content to just play some games & eat food. I maintain that misinformation or so-called missteps by the Ramseys regarding Burke were probably made in an effort to protect him in a highly stressful situation. However misguided, I can see their logic.

 

[narlacat]

Well, I'm sorry but I will never see the logic in Burke being sent off with the White's that day.

A 'foreign faction' with an obvious grudge against the Ramsey's, was on the loose, their precious daughter was missing, a ransom note was left threatening to behead her......and they let their only remaining child go off with people who they would later accuse for the murder of their daughter.
That does not add up....
And you know, Burke was perfectly happy to go, his Nintendo tucked under his arm. That was the present he had got for christmas that year. I remember reading how excited he was with it. He would have been alot safer in his room, away from the commotion playing his Nintendo, under the eye of LE.

 

[Brefie]

Question for Zman...how do explain the fingerprints on the pineapple bowl? Of course you don't have to explain anything to me, but I am very curious about how the non RDI's come to that conclusion.

 

[Camper]

Yes I would want my family close WHERE I COULD SEE THEM AND HOLD THEM and cry, and love them, (hey thats just me, sorry - we were and are a huggy kissy family) particularly since there was a supposed foreign faction on the loose. Funny, Burke was curious enough to ask questions on the **non hung up phone call to 911, BUT he walked out of the house with Fleet White and his Christmas gift, the Nintendo without even hugging mama and papa goodbye, nor saying anything within earshot.

What sort of family life is that?

Patsy appeared with John on CNN and told all of America, residents of Foreign Countries, and anyone who received Cable TV to HOLD THEIR BABIES CLOSE.

BUT it was not advice they took themselves with their ONLY other baby, or small pre teen child if you will.

Note: **Before the small crowd gathers to debate 'whose voice' on the non hung up phone call, WE know it wasn't JOHN and WE know it wasn't Patsy talking' making noises er whatever, HEY lets just call that unknown voice a 'foreign faction'.

 

[tipper]

[...]
Note: **Before the small crowd gathers to debate 'whose voice' on the non hung up phone call, WE know it wasn't JOHN and WE know it wasn't Patsy talking' making noises er whatever, HEY lets just call that unknown voice a 'foreign faction'.

I don't have the impression that Burke was the huggy, kissy type.

BUT since you say "WE know it wasn't JOHN " - how is then that John is said to be barking "We aren't talking to you?" in response to Burke saying something or other.

 

[narlacat]

Yes I would want my family close WHERE I COULD SEE THEM AND HOLD THEM and cry, and love them, (hey thats just me, sorry - we were and are a huggy kissy family) particularly since there was a supposed foreign faction on the loose. Funny, Burke was curious enough to ask questions on the **non hung up phone call to 911, BUT he walked out of the house with Fleet White and his Christmas gift, the Nintendo without even hugging mama and papa goodbye, nor saying anything within earshot.

What sort of family life is that?

Patsy appeared with John on CNN and told all of America, residents of Foreign Countries, and anyone who received Cable TV to HOLD THEIR BABIES CLOSE.

BUT it was not advice they took themselves with their ONLY other baby, or small pre teen child if you will.

Note: **Before the small crowd gathers to debate 'whose voice' on the non hung up phone call, WE know it wasn't JOHN and WE know it wasn't Patsy talking' making noises er whatever, HEY lets just call that unknown voice a 'foreign faction'.

Yep. The Ramsey's were so worried about their only remaining child, that they let him go back to school 3 weeks after the tragedy, without any protection from LE.

 

[sissi]

Fleet seems like a controlling type, not because of his efforts to control situations, like ignoring LE and taking it upon himself to head down that basement, but because of his reactions when he doesn't have control. The burst of anger in Atlanta, the interruption at the church, the failure to show for court, and the letter writing all show he "NEEDS" control. I would bet John trusted him , both Ramseys have proven throughout this to be gullible types,would bet, as well, that Fleet manipulated them into letting him take Burke out of the house.

 

[narlacat]

Maybe Patsy was gullible, but I really don't think John was. It wasn't John who handed out house keys to just about everyone, it was Patsy.
The word gullible means naive and easily deceived or tricked.
John Ramsey was a self made multi millionaire.He didn't get to the the top by being easily deceived and naive.He got to the top by being on the ball.

 

[hollyjokers]

I still think sending BR off that day was a way to delay having to go into much detail with him. The police are there gathering info, a terrifying situation that you can not begin to fathom is unfolding around you, knowing how kids will ask a lot of questions that you have no answers to, & a trusted friend offers to remove BR from it, I think it would be reasonable. But again, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Either they're cold & indifferent or they're performing.

They sent BR back to school 3 weeks later? Those heartless b@st@rds! I always thought the general consensus was after a trauma, particularly for a child, the best thing is to is try to resume normal activities as soon as possible. Would it feel back to normal to have a burly security guy trying to fit in a student desk next to him in class? Was there a possibility someone was going to assassinate BR on the playground? Again, fault at every turn.

I don't think moving to Atlanta so soon afterwards was in BR's best interests, but I would not want to be in that house again either.

 

[narlacat]

I still think sending BR off that day was a way to delay having to go into much detail with him. The police are there gathering info, a terrifying situation that you can not begin to fathom is unfolding around you, knowing how kids will ask a lot of questions that you have no answers to, & a trusted friend offers to remove BR from it, I think it would be reasonable. But again, they're damned if they do, damned if they don't. Either they're cold & indifferent or they're performing.

They sent BR back to school 3 weeks later? Those heartless b@st@rds! I always thought the general consensus was after a trauma, particularly for a child, the best thing is to is try to resume normal activities as soon as possible. Would it feel back to normal to have a burly security guy trying to fit in a student desk next to him in class? Was there a possibility someone was going to assassinate BR on the playground? Again, fault at every turn.

I don't think moving to Atlanta so soon afterwards was in BR's best interests, but I would not want to be in that house again either.

Was there a possibility someone was going to assassinate Burke on the play ground? Well, I'd say there was a possibility considering a 'foreign faction' had just tortured and murdered his little sister in their own home whilst there were three other people in the house.
Patsy said "keep your babies close" and then does the opposite. Reminds me of how she did the opposite of what the ransom note said to do by inviting everyone around for a tea party on the morning of the 26th.

 

[hollyjokers]

k, i'm done.

 

[tipper]

Was there a possibility someone was going to assassinate Burke on the play ground? Well, I'd say there was a possibility considering a 'foreign faction' had just tortured and murdered his little sister in their own home whilst there were three other people in the house.
Patsy said "keep your babies close" and then does the opposite. Reminds me of how she did the opposite of what the ransom note said to do by inviting everyone around for a tea party on the morning of the 26th.

What tea party?

 

[Brefie]

please - the breakfast they held on 26th?? that was strange, to say the least imo.

 

[narlacat]

That's what you call sarcasm, Tipper I would have thought you would have known what the tea party was.

The ransom note said "if you talk to a stray dog, she dies" etc. Patsy ignored the note and invited all her friends around. That is what I refer to as the tea party. I didn't coin the phrase though, someone else on here did. I forget who right now.