Patsy's Rings

[Arielle]

Just for the record, I take all my jewelry off before bed every night. I have "very thin skin" and I tend to bruise very easily. If jewelry is left on when I sleep, I will look like I beat myself up in the morning. But I admit I am in the minority.

 

[Jayelles]

Just out of curiosity...

If, as Why_Nut states above, a stungun needs both prods to make contact with the skin in order for it to complete it's circuit - what would be the effect if one prod was on duct tape? Would duct tape conduct electricity?

 

[Jayelles]

Where did you obtain the above images of the other marks? Is there one with an autopsy ruler in it?

 

[Jayelles]

Margoo has quoted from my initial post on this thread and has pointed out on Yonder Forum that it wasn't Wolfmarsgirl's POST she was ridiculing, but her THEORY that she was ridiculing.

Margoo states that the marks could not have been made by any means other than a stungun.

Margoo is aka MIBRO from this forum. It is interesting that she is claiming that someone (i.e one of our members E-MAILED her my post from this PRIVATE forum. So, either we have a mole (in which case certain posters are placed immediately under the umbrella of suspicion) or Margoo is not being honest about having received me post via e-mail.

If one of our members is e-mailing posts to Margoo, are they also e-mailing posts/threads to *******????

 

[Shawna]

A slithery serpent made those marks.

 

[sariebell]

Hello all! It's been a while since I posted here.

To me, it seems ridiculous to suppose that the marks would be made by a stun gun rather than a pair of rings on a hand. Wouldn't it be more logical to assume the ring idea than a stun gun? I have always believed the stun gun idea to be "horse pockey"...very far fetched. I think the ring idea holds a lot of merit!

Jayelles, the pics that you posted are rather curious. Indeed, larged stoned rings do turn in toward the palms, but I find myself adjusting them, rather than just wearing them like that. That picture really serves to support the ring theory, in my opinion. :clap:

 

[BlueCrab]

Just to get the discussion back on the right track from a technical standpoint; from "How Stun Guns Work", by Tom Harris:

"When you press the stun gun against an attacker and hold the trigger, the charge passes into the attacker's body. Since it has a fairly high voltage, the charge will pass through heavy clothing and skin. But at around 3 milliamps, the charge is not intense enough to damage the attacker's body unless it is applied for extended periods of time."

JMO

 

[Maikai]

had access to all the available data, and repicated the marks by the doing the pig experiments. Doberson made a pretty strong statement in saying that he's convinced with a high degree of medical certainty a stun gun was used. This didn't come from nowhere---he read all the available literature worldwide--and there's been plenty published---just do a medline search; he had experience based on his originally missing the abrasions on Boggs; and he did the experiments.

Wolfsmar asked about the distance. I don't recall if both sets were exactly the same distance, but they were close. I do think Smit qualified his statement about it most likely being an Air Taser---that it could be another gun, but the Air Taser was the most similar.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Yes, my inbox appears to be full! I shall get around to cleaning it out sometime later today.

Oh, ok. I was hoping it wasn't just a system error I was getting while using my 'Mac.'

I have never seen your ring photos before. Could you explain a little bit about them? What fingers did you have them on? How far apart were the marks?

I used my middle finger and my ring finger. Both rings are round stones with four-prongs and both are about the same size.

They landed almost exactly 3.5 centimeters apart (which I thought was kind of spooky). However, I didn't have a 'real' ruler; I used one that belonged to Wolfkid (I think it was a 'Powepuff Girls' ruler, or some other cereal-box type of thing...Ugh.)


Anyway, it didn't take much of a squeeze to accomplish the marks. I do tend to bruise easilly, but, heck, these marks were visible most of the day!

 

[Shylock]

Doberson made a pretty strong statement in saying that he's convinced with a high degree of medical certainty a stun gun was used.

Doberson made an even STRONGER statement previous to that when he said "you really can't tell by a photograph". That statement was so strong that it impeached anything he said afterward. It's obvious Doberson's opinion changes to whatever gets him the most publicity at the time.
Thankfully, the ham cooked his own rice...

IMO

 

[Jayelles]

I personally don't think rings with huge stones would slide round that easily because they'd be prevented from doing so by the adjacent finger. It's curious that Patsy has her rings on both hands facing her palms. Someone suggested she did that because she didn't want to appear ostentatious on camera. I considered that, but have decided that if she knew she was going to be ON camera - I think that photo appears to be from a TV programme like Larry King - John was sitting beside her and I cropped him out - then surely the easiest thing would be not to wear the rings???

Does anyone think rings with huge stones would slide round by themselves?

 

[twilight]

If you go back to the autopsy report rather than relying on the Spin Team, you will see that the marks on JB's back are both on the same side. The distance between is an 'up and down' thing. They are on her right back, which would mean that facing her and with her hand under her, Patsy's left hand would be the one the ring would be on...her wedding rings. Wedding rings often turn...ask any jeweller who has welded rings etc. to stop this problem. Pick her up - unable to believe she is dead. Get no response...lay her back down. In disbelief - repeat entire process. Two marks in close proximity.

The mark on JB's face on the right side would be caused by the large ring on Patsy's right hand if she backhanded JB in anger. And I say if. This is an abrasive mark and could be caused by a large stone in a ring.

As for how often Patsy removed her rings at night...just have a gander at the photos in DOI. You see Patsy and John with baby JB in the hospital after giving birth, and low and behold - she's got her rings. This would suggest to me that either 1) she wore them to bed, or 2) she paused on her way out of the house, doubled over in pain and with a sense of urgency, to put them on. {{I don't know about you guys, but I'll go with number 1...}} The large ring on her right hand is white and shiney, and she is wearing a light coloured polka-dot hospital gown, so would this be good fashion co-ordination? Beats me?

Now, where's CSI when you need them. Surely the marks or photos thereof could be matched to Patsy's rings, or photos thereof???

 

[Blazeboy3]

If you go back to the autopsy report rather than relying on the Spin Team, you will see that the marks on JB's back are both on the same side. The distance between is an 'up and down' thing. They are on her right back, which would mean that facing her and with her hand under her, Patsy's left hand would be the one the ring would be on...her wedding rings. Wedding rings often turn...ask any jeweller who has welded rings etc. to stop this problem. Pick her up - unable to believe she is dead. Get no response...lay her back down. In disbelief - repeat entire process. Two marks in close proximity.

The mark on JB's face on the right side would be caused by the large ring on Patsy's right hand if she backhanded JB in anger. And I say if. This is an abrasive mark and could be caused by a large stone in a ring.

As for how often Patsy removed her rings at night...just have a gander at the photos in DOI. You see Patsy and John with baby JB in the hospital after giving birth, and low and behold - she's got her rings. This would suggest to me that either 1) she wore them to bed, or 2) she paused on her way out of the house, doubled over in pain and with a sense of urgency, to put them on. {{I don't know about you guys, but I'll go with number 1...}} The large ring on her right hand is white and shiney, and she is wearing a light coloured polka-dot hospital gown, so would this be good fashion co-ordination? Beats me?

Now, where's CSI when you need them. Surely the marks or photos thereof could be matched to Patsy's rings, or photos thereof???

Super observation AND question...what's the ANSWER/SOLUTION? ... who is CSI anyhow/way? ,.. I've had a wedding ring/band on for 18 yrs and couldn't get it off if I wanted too anytime/anyhow/anyway ...4 kids (I'm sure that had something to do w/it:...??? surely there's an explanation: "fat" maybe???)?!!!@@@!!!~~~!!! ... seriously in 18 yrs I"VE NOT HAD THESE "WEDDING RINGS OFF!!!"...???

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Ok, here is a link to ACandyRose, where there is an autopsy close-up photo of the mark on JBR's cheek.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfacemarks.jpg

Now, adjust your contrast on your monitor until you can see the tiny marks inside the large mark.

Here is what I see. It is so clear that I have been crying off and on for about half an hour. I will never, ever believe any other theory now that I have seen this.

If you look closely at JBR's abrasion, you will see two, tiny abraisions that resemble slightly rounded squares. Right below and between these two squares, you can see another tiny square shape. Then, below that one, there are two additional marks. When I first saw this pattern pop out at me, it looked like a tiny pair of eyes and a nose...If you look at the picture and look for the eyes and nose, it is very clear...

Now, look at Patsy's ring from the photo above posted by Jayelles and Maxi. Look at the one on her right hand.

Previously, I thought this ring matched the mark on JBR's cheek in size and shape. Now, however I see that the pattern in Patsy's ring matches the pattern in the abrasion!

Just look at the photos. She is wearing a large 'cluster' ring that is comprised of many stones set individually.

Since we only have a distant photo of this ring, you can only make out the vague pattern. However, I see the same 'eyes and nose' I see in the abrasion on JBR's cheek. It is so clear that it is chilling. And I don't want to see it. But, I can't see anything else but the matching pattern.

Surely, LE has this ring in evidence. Or, do you think it is gone? If it were found, I have no doubts whatsoever that a match can be made of the ring to the autopsy photo that would be as exact as a fingerprint!

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Sorry, I wanted to bump this because I think it is important. Need some opinions.

 

[Ivy]

Very exciting, WMG! I about fell over when I saw the photo showing Patsy's rings turned inside. I can see the smaller marks inside the abrasion, and they do appear as if they could have been made by the cluster on Patsy's ring. I hope the ring was taken into evidence at some point, but ya never know...

Dr. Werner Spitz also must have noticed the smaller marks within the large one, because he said he thought the abrasion was made by a clothing gripper snap, and that what appeared to be the gripper logo was even visible.

What do you plan to do with your discovery? Who in LE could you trust to share it with?
___
IMO

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Thanks for responding Ivy. I am just about sick from thinking about this today...So, I guess I am not going completely insane by seeing the matching pattern?

Ok. There is no stun gun anywhere that would leave the tiny pattern.

What do you think I (or we as a forum) should do with this information? Do you think LE saw the match as well?

Should Smit be told about this?

I think this is the closest piece of evidence that can actually tie Patsy to the crime...Unless, of course, there is some way she could have pressed the ring against JBR's face THAT hard innocently. I don't think so.

Or, maybe the defense would be that someone else had a similar ring...

My head is spinning...

 

[Ivy]

WMG...Since Lin Wood has the DA's office in his hip pocket, and Smit is convinced the Rs are innocent, maybe you should tell Beckner about it, even though the BPD isn't involved in the case right now. Someday they might be again, and besides, even now Beckner would know what to do with the information, and he could pass it on to Keenan if he thinks it would do any good. At the very least he could save it for a new DA, one who'd stand up to Lin Wood and his threats.

I really don't know what you should do. Maybe other posters have some better ideas.
___
IMO

 

[tipper]

If you take the picture of Patsy's ring, show it at 200% and make it a negative; it appears to have a line of baguettes across the ring. If you show the mark on JonBenet's face at 400% the mark appears to have 3 or 4 round spots (almost like tiny bubbles or blisters) approximately in the center. I don't see how the two can match up.

 

[Ivy]

tipper, I did that but didn't see what you describe. Maybe my eyes are bad.

___
IMO