Patsy's Rings

[BlueCrab]

tipper, I did that but didn't see what you describe. Maybe my eyes are bad.

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IMO

I agree it's possible the cluster ring on Patsy's right hand might have caused the abrasion on JonBenet's right cheek, but I too don't seem to be able to see the "faces" or the match between the ring and the abrasion in the pictures.

Also, for a ring to have caused an injury like that would probably have taken a hard punch to the face -- which is possible but not likely. Only if Patsy was extremely high on some kind of drug, such as PCP, could I visualize her punching JonBenet in the face that hard.

JMO

 

[tipper]

tipper, I did that but didn't see what you describe. Maybe my eyes are bad.

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IMO

Nah it's just one of the frustrations of not being able to do this sort of thing live and in person so you both know you are looking at the same thing. I'll go back and have a look WITH my reading glasses on. I don't usually need them for the computer but perhaps my eyes are being 'creative' and I don't know it.

 

[Britt]

Also, for a ring to have caused an injury like that would probably have taken a hard punch to the face -- which is possible but not likely. Only if Patsy was extremely high on some kind of drug, such as PCP, could I visualize her punching JonBenet in the face that hard.

Punching? What about slapping? A face slap with the ring turned inward as they are shown in the photo.

 

[BlueCrab]

Punching? What about slapping? A face slap with the ring turned inward as they are shown in the photo.

Yes, I agree. In fact, for a female slapping is more likely than punching. I should of thought of that first, but you gotta forgive me -- I'm just a male.

JMO

 

[Ivy]

Britt, I agree that if the mark was from Patsy's ring, it could have been caused from a slap. If it was, I think it could have been from a panicky attempt to revive her. I'm a BDIer, so I guess it's natural I'd consider that a possiblility.

tipper, I know what you mean, yet I sometimes do think that even though my vision is good, my perception's goofed up, because I don't always see what other posters see in case-related photos. :waitasec:
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IMO

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

If you take the picture of Patsy's ring, show it at 200% and make it a negative; it appears to have a line of baguettes across the ring. If you show the mark on JonBenet's face at 400% the mark appears to have 3 or 4 round spots (almost like tiny bubbles or blisters) approximately in the center. I don't see how the two can match up.

Tipper, can you post the retouched photos with the negative images?

 

[cookie]

Isn't the mark on the right side of JonBenet's face? If the ring is one that Patsy would always wear on her right hand as in the picture, then the mark should be on the opposite side. Are you saying that Patsy is behind her when the mark would be made, or, are you talking about her facing JonBenet and having her right arm wrapped around her head so that the ring would be pressed on her face? I don't exactly know how to say this.

 

[tipper]

Tipper, can you post the retouched photos with the negative images?

Sure, if you can 'break it down Barney style' and tell me how to do it. Best I could get is the little red x in a box. Tried the FAQs and that didn't help. Couldn't find the 'Browse' button it said I needed. Will try again tomorrow.

 

[Ivy]

Cookie, one way it could have happened would be if JonBenet's face (or her whole body) was turned to her left when she was slapped. Another way would be if Patsy slapped her using an arm motion like a tennis backhand, but striking with her palm.

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IMO

 

[cookie]

Thank Ivy. Guess I'm a little dense tonight, so I think I'll just give it up and go to bed.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Isn't the mark on the right side of JonBenet's face? If the ring is one that Patsy would always wear on her right hand as in the picture, then the mark should be on the opposite side. Are you saying that Patsy is behind her when the mark would be made, or, are you talking about her facing JonBenet and having her right arm wrapped around her head so that the ring would be pressed on her face? I don't exactly know how to say this.

Cookie, this is how I see it. You have to visualize this, or try to hug your own child this way...I showed my husband this tonight with my daughter as my hugee, lol. He said, "Oh, so you mean Patsy killed her and then felt bad about it, so she was rocking her..." Exactly.

Quoting myself here:

...I sat on the floor with my child in my lap, with her
legs both hanging over my left leg. She was kind of
sitting up, laying her weight on her left hip, facing
me. I held her head in my right hand and the fingers
on my right hand ended up on her right cheek and/or or
on her neck. So, I gave her a kiss on the nose, lol...

My left arm was over her right side and my left hand
ended up, quite naturally, on the lower, left side of
her back.

This is typically how I hold her when I 'rock' my
great-big baby girl, or when I carry her quickly in a
rain-storm (when walking would be too slow), or any
other time I have to move her in a hurry and I want to
get a good grip on her and hold her close at the same
time.

Try it with your own child. Make sure his or her face
is close to your face (and don't forget the kiss on
the nose.) This hug kind of looks like holding a
guitar.

Now, back to Patsy's rings (or not). Now, if PR
accidentally killed (or thought she killed) JB, there
would have been a lot of squeezing and rocking with
mother and child in this exact position. If PR was
wearing two or more rings on each hand AND she held,
and squeezed JB in this manner, (a little too hard out
of grief and overwhelming anguish) would those rings
leave marks similar to the "stun gun" marks? I think
so.

The positioning of where a grown-up's fingers would
land on a child of JB's size match up perfectly to
where the marks were found on her body. AND, the
distance between the marks (within each set of marks)
is just about the distance between two adult fingers...

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Sure, if you can 'break it down Barney style' and tell me how to do it. Best I could get is the little red x in a box. Tried the FAQs and that didn't help. Couldn't find the 'Browse' button it said I needed. Will try again tomorrow.

Tipper, I am not sure either...I always thought my errors in posting photos had to do with the fact that my hubby is "Mac" crazy, lol, and we don't own a 'normal' PC in the whole stack of computers in our house. So, when I posted ring photos of my hand, I just went and got a website for posting pics and then posted the links for this forum...

I think Jayelles emailed the above Patsy photo to Maxi and then Maxi was able to post it. Maybe that would work.

 

[Jayelles]

A mark like that doesn't have to come from a punch. Pressure causes injury too. IF there was an accidental killing, Patsy would have been utterly distraught. Imagine her clutching JonBenet in desperation, nursing her very tightly.

If I am comforting my Tootsie, she would sit across my knee and I would have one arm surrounding her back and possibly with my hand on her side or overlapping her tummy a bit at the front and I would use my other hand to pull her head close to me, An inward turned ring on my ring finger would fall just about at her ear.

Which side of her torso was the pair of marks on? Were they on the same side as the mark on her face?

Did Patsy cuddle from the left or right? I remember seeing a life science programme on TV which covered this and how it was connected to the brain and that most people had a natural preference. It caused some discussion at the time and celebrities such as Diana were discussed.

There is ONE picture in DOI that shows Patsy holding JonBenet in her right arm. So if Patsy cuddled from the right then her left hand would support JonBenet's head and any inward turned ring would leave an impression on the right hand side of JonBenet's face.

Of course, it is possible that the photo is the wrong way around in DOI - that happens. Also, it is just ONE photo of Patsy holding JonBenet/a baby.

 

[BlueCrab]

Which side of her torso was the pair of marks on? Were they on the same side as the mark on her face?

The large face mark was on the right side of JonBenet's cheek, near the ear. The tiny twin rectangular marks were on the left lower side of JonBenet's back. There were also tiny twin rectangular marks on the lower left leg near the back of the ankle, but there's no photo of these.

JMO

 

[Shylock]

I wouldn't spent a whole lotta time posting photos for comparison. It's not like Patsy only owned ONE ring.

About the only thing you could do is blow-up the mark on her face and look for a pattern that might have been caused by the prongs on a ring.

And don't doubt that if the Ramseys were ever asked for the jewelry Patsy was wearing that night they will find it was some of the stuff the phantom intruder who broke into the Vinings house took. That "cheap K-Mart jewelry" that was missing.

 

[cookie]

Thanks so much for taking the time to post that explanation. I can mentally see exactly what you are talking about.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

No problem, Cookie

I have a link below to an example of a cluster ring. I have read a few things about ring settings, and it seems that there is just about any way to set a cluster ring. However, one of the most popular settings is a group of seven small stones (six on the outside and one in the middle).

Take a look at the link:

http://www.london-victorian-ring.com/vcluster.htm

On JBR, I see an X shape made by two top little marks, one in the middle, and two bottom little marks. The 'eyes and nose' I was refering to would be made by the top two shapes and the middle shape. All together, the pattern looks like an X.

I can't see Patsy's ring clearly enough to see if this is, indeed, a 'cluster ring'. The only thing I DO see when I look at her ring is a distinct X pattern in the middle that looks, to me, exactly like what I see on JBR (the 'eyes and nose' I mentioned are the top and middle of the 'X').

Now, if you look at the 'victorian cluster' rings on the page I posted, you can very, very clearly see stones that would end up exactly where the tiny little marks appear on JBR's large abrasion.

Of course, the rings in the ad I posted are made with seven stones. I think Patsy probably only has five predominant stones on top of the cluster,(in the center of the ring, at the highest peak).

I say this because I don't see the top middle stone and the bottom middle stone mark on JBR's skin. These two additional marks would be evident if someone was wearing a seven-stoned cluster ring. Instead, we only see marks from five stones (minus the top middle and bottom middle stone from my link).

As you can see, the tiny little marks within the abrasion are squared and angled. This shape would be caused by a square setting (the prongs form a square) around round-cut stones. If you take a look at my 'hand experiment,' you can see the square marks which were actually made by round stones.

I am sorry. I am convinced, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Patsy Ramsey, at the very least, squeezed JBR that night with a large cluster ring on her right hand and two round, four-pronged rings on her left hand.

No doubts whatsoever.

 

[Jayelles]

Werner Spitz remarked that he thought there was a boatshaped mark within the mark on JonBenet's face. He believes that mark may have been caused by a snap or a button.

I blew up the mark on JonBenet's face and marked off the boat-shaped structure. I can't post the image here, but I did post it at a Delphi forum which you access here:-

http://forums.delphiforums.com/What_happened/messages

The thread is under General Discussion and is titled The Stungun. The graphic is in post 3 or 4 of that thread.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

Werner Spitz remarked that he thought there was a boatshaped mark within the mark on JonBenet's face. He believes that mark may have been caused by a snap or a button.

I blew up the mark on JonBenet's face and marked off the boat-shaped structure. I can't post the image here, but I did post it at a Delphi forum which you access here:-

http://forums.delphiforums.com/What_happened/messages

The thread is under General Discussion and is titled The Stungun. The graphic is in post 3 or 4 of that thread.

Hi Jayelles. Thanks for the link. I did take a look at the picture you posted. It does look a little like a boat.

I see a bit more definition in the picture. I altered the original picture by changing the colors and saturation, etc until I got a much more defined view. Now, it looks green, but there are definitely squares there. I count five of them, lined up like I described, in the shape of an X. I would think they could be from a button, except that they are all square marks, not circular marks like you would see from a button.

I can't get Patsy's ring photo to have enough definition to enhance. The pixels are just way too large. I can only see the pattern in the picture when I view it from a distance. Up close, it is all fuzzy.

I will try to email the picture that I worked on to admin, so they can post it.

 

[Maxi]

Here's Wolfmars Girl's image. It's coming out kind of green. If you'd like me to try to color correct it or make it larger, please let me know.