Penn State athletic director plus ex-Paterno assistant charged in child rape case #2

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Putting my shock and horror aside, I think Paterno did the right thing in '99. Let's look at the facts:

-1965 Sandusky graduates from Penn State, having played on the football team and been coached by Paterno.
-1966 Sandusky is a grad assistant for Penn State, working under Paterno
-1967 Sandusky is an assistant coach at Juniata College
-1968 Sandusky is an assistant coach at Boston College
-1969 Sandusky returns to Penn State as defensive line coach
-1970 Sandusky promoted to linebacker coach
-1977 Sandusky promoted to defensive coordinator (also started the Second Mile charity)
-1986 Sandusky received Assistant Coach of the Year award
-1998 Sandusky investigated for inappropriate conduct with 2 minors (victim 6 and B.K.)
-1999 Sandusky recieved Assistant Coach of the Year award
-1999 Sandusky retires (and receives Professor Emeritus status)
-2002 McQuery observes Sandusky anally raping a 10 y.o. in the Penn State locker room showers, reports to Paterno who reports to Schultz and Curley
-2008 Clinton County H.S. blows the whistle and gets the investigative ball rolling.

(I did not add all the victims in this timeline, as that is not the point of this post)

IMO only, Paterno knew about the 1998 allegations. He would almost have to, as Sandusky's boss, even if he didn't know "officially". I believe that it about killed Joe to find-out that someone he had mentored, coached and worked with for over 35 years was a pederast. Joe did the right thing and "fired" Sandusky. We all have to realize that Sandusky was covered by a union, so he couldn't just be booted out the door. But Joe made sure Sandusky was gone. You don't retire an Assistant Coach of the Year just because you want to "make some changes" to your coaching line-up. Joe knew and did something about it.

Contrast this to Joe's behavior in 2002. What happened? Did Joe feel that since Sandusky no longer worked for him (or Penn State) that he didn't have to deal with it? Did Joe not believe McQueary? Was Joe beginning to suffer the mental affects of old age? It's just hard for me to believe that a man who could make such a difficult gut-wrenching decision in 1999 could just brush the allegations under the rug three years later.

I have been combing the web to try and figure-out what happened to Paterno or at Penn State in the time between 1999 and 2002 that would change Joe Paterno from a "take charge" man to someone washing his hands about the sexual abuse.
 
Someone told Sandusky to retire or they would turn him in with real evidence of raping little boys. That is the only way I believe they got him to retire. IMO

Then to really punish him they gave him 58k a year in retirement and the keys to all the showers.
 
Cheyne said:
Putting my shock and horror aside, I think Paterno did the right thing in '99. Let's look at the facts:

-1965 Sandusky graduates from Penn State, having played on the football team and been coached by Paterno.
-1966 Sandusky is a grad assistant for Penn State, working under Paterno
-1967 Sandusky is an assistant coach at Juniata College
-1968 Sandusky is an assistant coach at Boston College
-1969 Sandusky returns to Penn State as defensive line coach
-1970 Sandusky promoted to linebacker coach
-1977 Sandusky promoted to defensive coordinator (also started the Second Mile charity)
-1986 Sandusky received Assistant Coach of the Year award
-1998 Sandusky investigated for inappropriate conduct with 2 minors (victim 6 and B.K.)
-1999 Sandusky recieved Assistant Coach of the Year award
-1999 Sandusky retires (and receives Professor Emeritus status)
-2002 McQuery observes Sandusky anally raping a 10 y.o. in the Penn State locker room showers, reports to Paterno who reports to Schultz and Curley
-2008 Clinton County H.S. blows the whistle and gets the investigative ball rolling.

(I did not add all the victims in this timeline, as that is not the point of this post)

IMO only, Paterno knew about the 1998 allegations. He would almost have to, as Sandusky's boss, even if he didn't know "officially". I believe that it about killed Joe to find-out that someone he had mentored, coached and worked with for over 35 years was a pederast. Joe did the right thing and "fired" Sandusky. We all have to realize that Sandusky was covered by a union, so he couldn't just be booted out the door. But Joe made sure Sandusky was gone. You don't retire an Assistant Coach of the Year just because you want to "make some changes" to your coaching line-up. Joe knew and did something about it.

Contrast this to Joe's behavior in 2002. What happened? Did Joe feel that since Sandusky no longer worked for him (or Penn State) that he didn't have to deal with it? Did Joe not believe McQueary? Was Joe beginning to suffer the mental affects of old age? It's just hard for me to believe that a man who could make such a difficult gut-wrenching decision in 1999 could just brush the allegations under the rug three years later.

I have been combing the web to try and figure-out what happened to Paterno or at Penn State in the time between 1999 and 2002 that would change Joe Paterno from a "take charge" man to someone washing his hands about the sexual abuse.
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I'm sure he didn't want to turn someone in that he had known for years, but doing the right thing for the boy would have been calling law enforcement, even if it was anonymously. McQueary was a young graduate student that probably was worried about being believed and losing his job. He should have called law enforcement too. Being worried about yourself is one thing, but worrying about that poor boy should have outweighed any concern that they had about their own concerns. McQueary saw it for himself. He should have called. Coach Paterno was told by a coach that he must have believed because he was still working for him and the accused coach "retired". If Coach Paterno didn't believe it was true than that would be saying that he believed that McQueary was lying and there is no way that he would still be coaching for him. It would have been a tough thing calling law enforcement on his friend and colleague, but doing the right thing always seems to be tough and it always seem to be easier when we are telling the other person how right is right and wrong is wrong, until it is our own situation.
 
Thank you all for the respectable discussion. I have a family to attend to that has missed me while I was here. I appreciate everyone's viewpoint.

So you know what my support of Paterno does not stem from... I never attended PSU and quite honestly, I hate football.

My time here was not wasted as it was last night with a "football" head.

His op was... Only an pure idiot would forget about the victims while standing up for their beloved JoePa and the football program.

His best support to his stance was regurgitation of facts I stated in previous posts... I won't bore you. At the end when I alluded to a cover up bigger than the university by stating "Think higher than Paterno" his response was... "To heck with Paterno, I want Urban Meyer for head coach." Just wow... I wasted my time supporting my position to get to that...
 
BrownRice said:
This is why Sandusky got away with this for so long:

Speaking personally, Dottie Huck (Board Member of Second Mile) said Sandusky has “done some wonderful things in his lifetime and we should try to help him ... We all make little mistakes in our lives.”

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/11/charges_against_former_penn_st.html
Click to expand...

One thing I've learned this past week is the culture that allowed Sandusky to rape children is still alive and well. This is to me as horrifying as the rapes themselves.....little mistakes....pffft!
 
Two paragraphs stand out from the following PA AG press release….the 2nd paragraph is particularly intriguing. I wonder why “officials” came across as so “uncooperative”…..especially in a case(s) that involved sexual abuse of a child/children? All bbm:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=6270
The grand jury also noted that the 1998 report involving Sandusky and boys in the showers was reviewed by University Police and Child Protective Services, with the blessing of Wendell Courtney, who at the time served as University Counsel and was (and remains) counsel to The Second Mile - though no criminal charges were ever pursued.

Kelly said that despite the false testimony and "uncooperative atmosphere" encompassing some Penn State University and Second Mile officials, investigators from the Attorney General's Office and State Police gradually uncovered a pattern of other potential sexual assaults by Sandusky.
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Courtney ‘apparently’ rebutted the GJ claim that he was representing PSU and the Second Mile at the same time. According to Courtney, he didn’t begin as legal counsel for Second Mile until early 2009. Although the time frame is not clear at this point, the PA Attorney General Office began their investigation into the Sandusky allegations in early 2009 as well. There’s quite a bit of other interesting info in the following link:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11316/1189464-455.stm
Nils Frederiksen, spokesman for state Attorney General Linda Kelly, said, "It's clear from the findings of the grand jury that Mr. Courtney had direct dealings with both Penn State and The Second Mile and he had knowledge and was aware of the 1998 incident.

"The grand jury findings are based on evidence and testimony," he said. "There's no dispute he had interaction with both [PennState and The Second Mile]. If he wants to engage in semantics, so be it."
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Another thing that isn’t too clear at this point is who knew what when. From the link above:
Officials of The Second Mile have acknowledged that they knew about sex abuse allegations against Mr. Sandusky as far back as 2002 but did not remove him from dealing with children until 2008.

Mr. Courtney, asked if he informed anyone at the agency of the 1998 investigation, said "absolutely not. Under no circumstances would I have done that."

Because he worked as counsel for Penn State at the time, providing the information to The Second Mile would have been a breach of professional ethics, he said.
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Did the Second Mile honchos have ANY knowledge of the 1998 allegation prior to learning of the 2002 incident with Sandusky? Courtney was aware of the 1998 allegation….was the 2002 incident kept from him?

According to Courtney’s credentials, listed on the McQuaide Blasko website, http://www.mqblaw.com/statecollege/attorneys_wendell_courtney.html, Mr. Courtney's primary area of focus in labor and employment law is human resources counseling, with an emphasis on prevention and resolution of employment related problems, and collective bargaining negotiations.

Was he involved in Sandusky’s ‘retirement’ details in ’99 I wonder or were university officials able to handle that ‘exit’ without legal counsel??

One more note of interest (to me at least). Courtney was replaced as Penn State counsel in Jan 2010. Penn State hired Cynthia Baldwin as the university’s FIRST full-time general counsel and chief legal officer.
The university replaced Courtney and McQuaide Blasko as general counsel last year when it hired former Duane Morris partner Cynthia Baldwin......Penn State hired her as its new legal chief after an external peer review recommended creating an in-house general counsel position.
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Mike McQueary at Penn State: the timeline

1975: born in State College PA; raised in State College
1994-1997: scholarship athlete at Penn State
1997: starting quarterback and offensive co-captain
2000-2002: graduate assistant coach
2003: administrative assistant with football program
2004-2011: recruiting coordinator and receivers coach

http://bit.ly/uoHcLW
 
I don't give a rat's azz about the "proper procedures" Joe Paterno is being alleged to have followed in reporting the 2002 incident to his "superiors". They didn't stop anything. Joe Paterrno KNEW they stopped nothing.

I DO care about why Joe Paterno seems to have absolved himself of any further obligation to do anything to stop this monster. I DO care about why, after knowing nothing was done, he didn't place calls to the State level of LE or even the FBI if necessary.

Unlike you or I, the Joe Paternos of this world could directly call the President of the United States if that's what it took. Unlike you or I, the Joe Paternos of this world could call a press conference. At a press conference, after stepping up to the microphone, after adjusting his tie and clearing his throat, in a clear and forcefull voice Joe Paterno COULD HAVE said......

"Ladies and Gentleman, I am here today to stop a MONSTER..."

Instead, he was silent and did nothing.

THAT is my problem with JoePa.
 
For me there are two sides. The victims side or the rapist side. Anyone who voices any opinion favoring the rapist should not be anywhere near a child based charity foundation.
 
ScorpRising said:
I agree. I think you missed the point I was making. Paterno, at this moment, has my FULL support based on the evidence we know.

I've had people throw the "He admitted he should have done more" in my face to which I respond... Isn't that what all human beings do? We look at what we could have done differently.

Me, I struggle daily with the notion I could have made a phone call three months before a suicide that would’ve changed everything. I could’ve been there, I could’ve changed the outcome and I should’ve saved my friend. I didn't. I can't be charged as an accomplice in his death...
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Joe Paterno had all the power in the world to do anything he wanted. It is his iconic and powerful stature that makes his behavior even more unbelievable.This is really a simple issue of right vs wrong.Not only does he now know the difference-he always has known it. This is not something that anyone would think about what to do. These are kids being raped, anyone that needs hindsight to realize that or time to think it over or figure it out would be a <modsnip>.
His reasons for not using his authority to stop this is mind boggling. How anyone can reconcile in their own mind that not going to LE was the right thing to do and then think better of it later is beyond my comprehension.
 
I would love to know what the "leaders" of Penn State would advise the students to do when a crime is being committed in front of their face against another person - of any age. If some thugs were beating up an old man (say Joe P) in plain view, would he expect the students to merely make a half-hearted attempt to report it the next day or would he expect a student to intervene and try to save his life.

Mike M is not a skinny 98 pound weakling. And I feel sure he was a strapping 28 year old man when he saw old man Sandusky raping a 10 year old kid. Most men would kick the krap out of the perpetrator, grab the kid and remove him from the scene and get the police there ASAP. Or at the very minimum, tiptoe out of the building and call the police from the parking lot and wait for them to get there. A child needed to be rescued and no one could be bothered. They could not even be bothered to find out his name. So now everyone must pay the price for their silence. Whatever that price is, it is not enough.
 
From the Grand Jury Presentment (bottom of Victim 7 page 21)
Victim 7 had not had contact with Sandusky for nearly two years but was contacted by Sandusky and separately by Sandusky’s wife and another Sandusky friend in the weeks prior to Victim 7’s appearance before the Grand Jury. The callers left messages saying the matter was very important. Victim 7 did not return these calls.
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Could this attempted contact be construed as 'tampering with a witness'??? Any attorneys able to weigh in on this?

bbm
 
hornswoggled said:
I would love to know what the "leaders" of Penn State would advise the students to do when a crime is being committed in front of their face against another person - of any age. If some thugs were beating up an old man (say Joe P) in plain view, would he expect the students to merely make a half-hearted attempt to report it the next day or would he expect a student to intervene and try to save his life.
Click to expand...
<<SNIP>>

Excellent analogy and great point! Thanks for highlighting the absurdity of all the excuses and passing of the proverbial buck.
 
Question for everyone:

When you hear the words "Kent State", what do you think of?
 
Admittedly, I am late to this party. I have been watching in horror. It makes me sad to be a Pennsylvanian, and even sadder that my tax dollars are providing paid administrative leave for McQueary and Curley. Both my brothers are PSU alumni. I used to have a great deal of respect for "JoePa," thought he was a "class act." Come to find out this week that he put his legacy ahead of innocent children. HE knew and knew well about what went on with Sandusky. Why did he put his hand up to stop McQueary from graphically describing the sodomy? He didn't want it in his frame of vision. He didn't want it to cloud his legacy or taint his career. They ALL just wanted to bury it, to protect what JoePa had worked for for so many decades. It is disgusting and it makes me physically ill. I am appalled with McQueary. How does a 28 year old man, 6'2" and 230 lbs, strong and athletic witness a HELPLESS LITTLE BOY forced up against a wall and be sodomized and then WALK AWAY!! Then LEAVE THE BUILDING!!! Then go to "Daddy's house" and eat some ice cream??? I would love to know how McQueary's supporters would feel if someone they loved was in the position of the poor nameless boy in the shower that SAD night in March almost 10 years ago. McQueary saw an opportunity to FURTHER HIS CAREER. When he called his dad what did dad say, "Say, son, we may be able to wrangle a permanent coaching position out of this for you!" To heck with those tiny eyes, pleading with Mike McQueary, "Please! Save me! Please! HELP me!" Shame on the McQueary and Paterno families. Shame on the board of trustees. I hope the NCAA comes in and gives this football program the death penalty for a few years, let these students KNOW FOOTBALL is not more important than the dignity of a child. The message should be loud and clear. THIS SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED in the name of football. It makes me so ill. And John McQueary, the Physicians Assistant who advised his son to walk away should be stripped of his medical license. I hope the whole bunch of them will be staring down the barrel of civil suits for the rest of their natural lives. I am so sick, so disgusted. Those poor children. May God have mercy on us!
 
eileenhawkeye said:
Question for everyone:

When you hear the words "Kent State", what do you think of?
Click to expand...

May 4, 1970 massacre of four Kent State students...

ETA.. The date is etched in my memory because my middle daughter was born two days earlier on a Derby Saturday.....
 
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