Penn State Sandusky scandal: AD arrested, Paterno, Spanier fired; coverup charged #5

[Concerned Papa]

Interesting. I have a call in to my football guy as I have no interest in looking at the stat crap...

For now, I leave you with this... The "house that Joe built", the dominant football mentality, say it however you like that created the cover-up is now going to put their streak or whatever in jeapordy in 2004 to buy some guy's silence? The immoral, narcissitc, self-serving football god I've been reading about the past few weeks would never put anything in front of his record. Why not just pay him off if he didn't deserve the spot?

Can someone point me to the ESPN cover-up thread? I apparently need to vent some frustration at the hypocritical media in it's own thread.

ETA: A search for "ESPN cover up" routed me back to this thread.

I'm going to ask you to take a look at this "streak", as you called it, in 2004 for the "house that Joe built". For the previous five years, Joe Paterno's Penn State football teams had losing records in four of those years. The combined win/loss record for those five years was 26 wins with 33 loses. That's about as bad as it gets in big time college football.

The program needed help. Joe needed help just to keep his job. As bad as it may sound, loyalty in sports in general, but college football in particular, often boils down to "what have ya done for me lately"? The facts of "the house that Joe built" in 2004 were the program was losing and he needed help.

NOW........suit up and place yourself in Joe Paterno's shoes. Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone in the critical role of Receiver's Coach who had never been a coach ANYWHERE? Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone as a Receiver's Coach who, not only had zero coaching experience but, had NEVER PLAYED THE POSITION OF A RECEIVER?

Is it just me, or does that seem a little bit like a corporate executive hiring someone as pilot of the company plane who had never flown before? I'm not trying to knock McQueary. If there is a good guy in this mess, it may very well be him, but I see nothing that indicates he "deserved the spot".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Now flipping on the plea deal: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_lawyer_clarifi.html

 

[FloatingStar]

Below excerpts are from:

Coach may have whistle-blower status - ESPN.com

"How is McQueary hanging on? One theory is that the Penn State receivers coach and recruiting coordinator may hold whistle-blower protection status under Pennsylvania state law. McQueary was a 28-year-old graduate assistant in 2002 when, according to his grand jury testimony, he witnessed Jerry Sandusky committing sexual assault on a young boy in the showers of the Lasch Football Building..."

"McQueary, a former Penn State quarterback, has faced immense criticism this week for not calling police, interrupting the act or, in the nine years since he was an eyewitness, demanding answers about why Sandusky was never charged. But Stephen Kohn, the executive director of the National Whistleblowers Center in Washington, D.C., believes reporting the incident to Paterno alone could be enough to protect McQueary under the state's whistle-blower law."

"If they were to fire him because he made the disclosure and reported it, then he would be protected," Kohn said. "Just because he's unpopular, just because people blame him for having the head coach dismissed, he can't be fired for any of that."

"That might help explain why Paterno spent Thursday on a couch in his home and McQueary was still at the practice facility helping players prepare for Nebraska. As Kohn explained it, even though McQueary was the actual witness, the level of reporting responsibility for a then-28-year-old graduate assistant and a legendary head coach is far different."

"You have to look at where the employee is on the totem pole," Kohn said. "There are different expectations at different levels. A manager versus an employee. A student versus a teacher. It's just how it goes. The last thing you want to do is create an environment where people don't even tell the supervisor."

"Joe Paterno, 10-11 years ago, was an incredibly powerful guy," Dannin said. "What would have happened to him if he would have taken it further? If he would have insisted on answers? Nothing. It would have been resolved. What did [Paterno] have to lose versus what did [McQueary] have to lose? There's no comparison. [Paterno] could have safely ended this."

"Of course, there are those who will say that McQueary could have ended it as well, by stopping Sandusky in the act or by calling the police, either anonymously or not. But at this point, it isn't believed that that happened.

"If [McQueary] is a low-level person, you can understand why he might be stunned in that moment," she said. "And people don't act their best when they're taken by surprise."

 

[Pensfan]

I'm going to ask you to take a look at this "streak", as you called it, in 2004 for the "house that Joe built". For the previous five years, Joe Paterno's Penn State football teams had losing records in four of those years. The combined win/loss record for those five years was 26 wins with 33 loses. That's about as bad as it gets in big time college football.

The program needed help. Joe needed help just to keep his job. As bad as it may sound, loyalty in sports in general, but college football in particular, often boils down to "what have ya done for me lately"? The facts of "the house that Joe built" in 2004 were the program was losing and he needed help.

NOW........suit up and place yourself in Joe Paterno's shoes. Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone in the critical role of Receiver's Coach who had never been a coach ANYWHERE? Given a choice, why would you EVER consider hiring someone as a Receiver's Coach who, not only had zero coaching experience but, had NEVER PLAYED THE POSITION OF A RECEIVER?

Is it just me, or does that seem a little bit like a corporate executive hiring someone as pilot of the company plane who had never flown before? I'm not trying to knock McQueary. If there is a good guy in this mess, it may very well be him, but I see nothing that indicates he "deserved the spot".

Was he first hired as a recruiter after being considered a graduate assistant?

Insiders knew him as a key player in helping Penn State's resurgence in the mid- to late 2000s, when the Nittany Lions won 11 games three times and played in two BCS bowl games.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...there-no-easy-answers-assistant-mike-mcqueary

McQueary's efforts as recruiting coordinator have yielded six of the fastest and most athletic classes in Penn State history.
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcqueary_mike00.html

Those quotes above may be "fluff". I seriously don't know. What is a graduate assistant in the football department? Is this someone working on their graduate degree like in other departments or does this have some other meaning?

 

[Concerned Papa]

Was he first hired as a recruiter after being considered a graduate assistant?

Insiders knew him as a key player in helping Penn State's resurgence in the mid- to late 2000s, when the Nittany Lions won 11 games three times and played in two BCS bowl games.
http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_...there-no-easy-answers-assistant-mike-mcqueary

McQueary's efforts as recruiting coordinator have yielded six of the fastest and most athletic classes in Penn State history.
http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/mcqueary_mike00.html

Those quotes above may be "fluff". I seriously don't know. What is a graduate assistant in the football department? Is this someone working on their graduate degree like in other departments or does this have some other meaning?

IDK regarding the role of a graduate assistant. I played at the University of Georgia many eons ago and we had student assistants who did a lot of the "grunt" work associated with all of the equipment, etc. I don't know McQueary's actual duties prior to being installed as an assistant coach in 2004. Like I said, McQueary may very well be one of the good guys in all of this and I'm NOT trying to knock him. My only point is that in 2004, Paterno's team had problems winning football games and it makes no sense to me that he would have hired such an inexperienced person as his Receiver's Coach. I've made no effort to look into how well McQueary did or didn'r do as coach. I just want to understand whey he was hired to such an important position with absolutely zero experience as a coach or player in that position.

I don't see how it could not, at least, be considered as a reward or payment for something else.

 

[Pensfan]

IDK regarding the role of a graduate assistant. I played at the University of Georgia many eons ago and we had student assistants who did a lot of the "grunt" work associated with all of the equipment, etc. I don't know McQueary's actual duties prior to being installed as an assistant coach in 2004. Like I said, McQueary may very well be one of the good guys in all of this and I'm NOT trying to knock him. My only point is that in 2004, Paterno's team had problems winning football games and it makes no sense to me that he would have hired such an inexperienced person as his Receiver's Coach. I've made no effort to look into how well McQueary did or didn'r do as coach. I just want to understand whey he was hired to such an important position with absolutely zero experience as a coach or player in that position.

I don't see how it could not, at least, be considered as a reward or payment for something else.

Yeah, it could be. My last thought is that maybe McQueary's dad and Joe Pa were old friends. How many receivers' coaches are employed for a college football team? Is this a place where wealthy teams can easily put their friends and relatives on the payroll?

 

[Concerned Papa]

Yeah, it could be. My last thought is that maybe McQueary's dad and Joe Pa were old friends. How many receivers' coaches are employed for a college football team? Is this a place where wealthy teams can easily put their friends and relatives on the payroll?

I have no idea regarding his Dad and JoePa. There's typically only one receivers coach. The number of receivers on any football team is only going to be around 8-10, but is a key role. A receivers coach, in part, is the one that trains these players in the many complex routes to be run in any play that's executed by the offense. As much as any coaches role, a complete understanding of a host of intricate player moves has to be fully understood with the ability to instill this knowledge in the players. It's a tough spot for a rookie coach.

I just think hiring such an unknown/unproven factor in the situation Paterno was in is not at all logical and was a heck of a risk. It makes no sense in the normal flow of college football.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have no idea regarding his Dad and JoePa. There's typically only one receivers coach. The number of receivers on any football team is only going to be around 8-10, but is a key role. A receivers coach, in part, is the one that trains these players in the many complex routes to be run in any play that's executed by the offense. As much as any coaches role, a complete understanding of a host of intricate player moves has to be fully understood with the ability to instill this knowledge in the players. It's a tough spot for a rookie coach.

I just think hiring such an unknown/unproven factor in the situation Paterno was in is not at all logical and was a heck of a risk. It makes no sense in the normal flow of college football.

They hired Sandusky from within, and he was a GA as well. There were a few others, according to Wikipedia, Dick Anderson and Fran Ganter.

 

[Reader]

I'm thinking Sandusky went through his rolodex of shower buddies and picked one out that he could rely on -- maybe a kid with whom nothing happened. He says to the kid something like 'You're not gonna believe this, but some investigators think...'

But Amendola's claim of a defense witness has this problem:
If in 2002 Sandusky really gave to Curley the contact info for a kid who would exonerate him, why wouldn't Curley provide that info to the GJ?
If Curley lost the info in the ten years gone by, wouldn't he at least tell the GJ that Sandusky had identified that kid during the initial investigation?
Even though the GJ doesn't have to include ALL info in the presentment, they would have had three years to try tracking down that info, and I just can't see excluding any mention of it.

The upside of "today's" Victim Two is that if he were to take the stand in any trial, could McQueary believably look at a twenty-year-old and say No, that's not the ten-year-old I saw pinned against the wall ten years ago.
A verbal description provided by McQueary ten years ago wouldn't include much more than hair and skin colour, one that could be matched by a kid of about the same age that Sandusky didn't assault.

Welcome to WS and excellent questions!

BBM

It may be that our Mr. Curley lied about more than the reporting issues and this will come from JS himself, if there is a trial: that he gave Curley the name and phone # of this child, contacted him about what he could/should say and then Curley never followed up and apparently did not share this info with anyone else at the time or with the GJ.

OR, it may be that the GJ has kept any info/contacts they have had with victim 2 out of the limelight, since this is the most serious charge. Their proceedings are supposed to be secret after all...

Maybe JS and his lawyer have a little surprise coming in the preliminary hearing...sweet revenge for victim 2....how I wish it was so!

 

[Reader]

Now flipping on the plea deal: http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/12/jerry_sanduskys_lawyer_clarifi.html

The dance begins.....


testing...testing...testing....

 

[FloatingStar]

I just think hiring such an unknown/unproven factor in the situation Paterno was in is not at all logical and was a heck of a risk. It makes no sense in the normal flow of college football.

This letter from McQueary to Paterno seems genuine. I suspect that McQueary's fawning loyalty and admiration, even if somewhat feigned, would get a promotion in many academic as well as sports contexts.

Mike McQueary’s Letter to Joe Paterno

Just thought it was a possibility.

 

[FloatingStar]

This question does knaw at my thinking a bit:

"Apparently, Mr. McQueary golfed and socialized with Mr. Sandusky after March 1, 2002, conduct that is inconsistent with Mr. McQueary's testimony: Most people do not socialize with individuals they believe to be child-rapists," Farrell and fellow attorney Caroline Roberto wrote."

If true, it makes me sort of queasy about McQueary. I've been fired from jobs when I stood up for a principle a lot less serious than witnessing a child rape.

from
Former Penn State administrators' lawyers target McQueary's credibility

 

[Reader]

This letter from McQueary to Paterno seems genuine. I suspect that McQueary's fawning loyalty and admiration, even if somewhat feigned, would get a promotion in many academic as well as sports contexts.

Mike McQueary’s Letter to Joe Paterno

Just thought it was a possibility.

He surely played to Paterno's ego, but it also seems sincere to me.

Not knowing much about his background, I found this article with some good info on McQueary:


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188543-298.stm

 

[Reader]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/specialreports/pennstate/s_769809.html

The Penn State child sexual abuse scandal that began with a mother's call to her son's high school in 2008 has spawned at least eight overlapping investigations.

State Attorney General Linda Kelly is overseeing the 2 1/2-year grand jury investigation that led to an explosive Nov. 5 abuse complaint against retired assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, and felony charges against two top university officials who prosecutors say lied under oath. Until it released the grand jury's report, Kelly's office was the sole investigating agency.

Now it has company.

Rep. Pat Meehan, R-Delaware County, a former federal prosecutor who asked the U.S. Department of Education to investigate Penn State's compliance with the Clery Act on crime reporting, predicts the university will have trouble keeping up with subpoenas and requests for documents.

"It will overwhelm the Penn State administration," Meehan said.
----------

That's not necessarily bad, said John Burkoff, a professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Law.

"The more investigations ... and the more publicity these investigations spawn, the greater the chance that additional pieces of evidence will turn up," Burkoff said. "That includes more victims or witnesses, assuming that there are any more out there."

Pittsburgh attorney Howard Messer isn't optimistic that multiple investigations will lead to substantive change at Penn State.

"It all depends upon the motivations of the people who control the investigations," said Messer, who represented miners trapped in the 2002 Quecreek Mine disaster that spawned four investigations. "The political and economic considerations that go into funding these investigations often control the outcome. If investigators are left alone, they tend to reach much better conclusions."

 

[Reader]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...ttles-suit-by-alleged-victim-lawyer-says.html

The Second Mile, a charity run by former Pennsylvania State University football coach Jerry Sandusky, settled a lawsuit filed by an alleged sexual abuse victim seeking to freeze its assets, according to a lawyer.

The charity agreed to obtain court approval prior to transferring assets or closing down and provide notice to the plaintiff before any distribution of funds, attorney Ben Andreozzi said today in an e-mailed statement. Andreozzi represents a man identified as John Doe #4 in the complaint, filed Nov. 23 in Pennsylvania state court in Philadelphia.

More at link....

 

[Reader]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/12/01/131880/penn-state-fundraisers-quietly.html

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. — Penn State Nation has a stealth army of alumni, a half-million strong stretching from the Florida Keys to Alaska.

They always have given their alma mater their loyalty, gratitude and money — lots of it.

But after the appalling revelations of the past month, some Penn State benefactors big and small are snapping shut their checkbooks. It's a critical problem for a school that already is reeling and doubtless faces more bruising headlines in the months to come.

In response, the school in recent days has launched a quiet outreach effort to deep-pocketed alumni, aimed at ensuring the university's most important donors remain on board.

Much more at link...good info on the fundraising and budget at Penn St.

 

[FloatingStar]

He surely played to Paterno's ego, but it also seems sincere to me. Not knowing much about his background, I found this article with some good info on McQueary:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188543-298.stm

That article brought up an angle I was unaware of. The role of McQueary's father:

"According to the grand jury report, Mr. McQueary first told his father of the incident and they went together to tell Mr. Paterno the day after the assault."

"[Mike McQuery's father] John McQueary said he could not make any other comments because he is a witness in the Sandusky case."

For one thing, if BOTH McQueary and his father went to Paterno it seems like it would be harder for Paterno to shuffle and jive about exactly what he was told. Secondly, the reported strategy of attacking the credibility of McQueary by lawyers for athletic director Tim Curley and university VP Gary Schultz would seem to be weak if McQueary's father was right there alongside him directly talking to Paterno.

 

[Pensfan]

On page184 in Sandusky’s book, he describes how he scammed his friends, neighbors and the IRS r/t the initial tax exemption for Second Mile. He told his friends and neighbors, “Just in case you are ever asked, you ARE on the board of Second Mile. (I wonder if you used a similar phrase to the man now stating the he is Victim2.)

He also states that he got the name for Second Mile..............in church. (Yep, a holy directive) He describes his actions of visiting the wealthy benefactors and begging for money. He MADE THE UNDERPRIVILEGED KIDS GO DOOR TO DOOR at one time and beg for donations for his pedo palace.

He rants about how he had a tough ethical decision to make on whether to take a donation to Second Mile from a fraternity on campus that drank alcohol. He brags about how he turned down an applicant to be houseparent in his “Second Mile foster care dream home” because one man smoked.

He describes how in the beginning of Second Mile that middle class individuals would fund the payroll out of their own pocket when Second Mile was in the red. (An earlier internet article stated that Sandusky only gave a $1000 as a donation to Second Mile yearly. He likely had a higher salary than the people he scammed to keep Second Mile afloat with their own money.)

On page 191, one board member early in Second Mile's history said if they drained Second Mile like a farmer would drain a huge container of sour milk, they would find a RAT!!!!! An executive director stood up and immediately took all the blame. Then the organization went on without this rat according to Sandusky the King Rat.

On the left side of this Amazon page, there is a space where you can type in the page number that you want to read.

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Touched-Jerry-Sandusky-Story/dp/1582613575/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322799877&sr=8-1"]Amazon.com: Touched: The Jerry Sandusky Story (9781582613574): Jerry Sandusky: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SRnoJKLLL.@@AMEPARAM@@41SRnoJKLLL[/ame]

 

[HMSHood]

Jerry Sandusky’s Voice and Speech Content Show Signals of Deception Guilt In Costas Interview
http://drlillianglassbodylanguagebl...gnals-of-deception-guilt-in-costas-interview/

She nails it right on. Sandusky is full of lies and deception.

 

[Pensfan]

That article brought up an angle I was unaware of. The role of McQueary's father:

"According to the grand jury report, Mr. McQueary first told his father of the incident and they went together to tell Mr. Paterno the day after the assault."

"[Mike McQuery's father] John McQueary said he could not make any other comments because he is a witness in the Sandusky case."

For one thing, if BOTH McQueary and his father went to Paterno it seems like it would be harder for Paterno to shuffle and jive about exactly what he was told. Secondly, the reported strategy of attacking the credibility of McQueary by lawyers for athletic director Tim Curley and university VP Gary Schultz would seem to be weak if McQueary's father was right there alongside him directly talking to Paterno.

I don't think McQueary's dad went.

Grand Jury Findings:
"The graduate assistant and his father decided that the graduate assistant had to promptly report what he had seen to Coach Joe Paterno. The graduate assistant telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno’s home, where he reported what he had seen." (pg 7)
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...RwmBuW&sig=AHIEtbTBUceIh0JMq3aYW7ai3OF9aAkXgA