Penn State Sandusky Trial #11 (Verdict - GUILTY!)

[HMSHood]

http://onwardstate.com/2012/06/26/what-it-was-like/

SNIP
I looked into his eyes, long ago deserted of emotion. I saw his hands tremble as he tried to place them in his suit pocket. And I watched every day as that pathetic man walked into court, knowing he only had hours left to throw those god damned biscuits to his stupid dog.

Each victim, beaming down at the defense table, was finally empowered to tell the world what happened, while Jerry Sandusky saw his entire 68 years on this earth rendered meaningless.

That was justice for me.

When I see Jerry Sandusky, outside he is immature and goofy. The immaturity and goofiness hides the real Jerry Sandusky, a controlling, rigid, deceptive, and narcissistic Jerry Sandusky. He thinks the universe revolves around him and is the "800 Pound Gorilla". Sandusky has an extreme sense of entitlement. I have seen his kind many times (Casey Anthony, Lori Drew, Fred Phelps, Eric Harris, and Osama bin Laden come to mind). He had free reign at Penn State and public schools. His befriending of mentally challenged and under privileged people had a ulterior motive.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

So true.

I hope the judge will keep this in mind when sentencing Sandusky.

JS should never ever have access to a child again...not even his own grandchildren.

He never will, but he wouldn't necessarily have to be in prison. He'll be on Meagan's List for life and, even if out in 10, on parole for another 10, at least.

 

[Pinkhammer]

I think, because his victims were children and therefore much younger than he, it's easy to say an old man doesn't pose a real threat-- unless, of course, you were raped by him.

I hope the Commonwealth offers its law abiding citizens the guarantee they will not have to watch out for the likes of Jerry Sandusky ever again. :moo:

I hope so, too, and I believe the sentences will be consecutive.

Here is a recent case in the same part of PA:

http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x1726189727/Ex-Bucknell-professor-pleads-guilty-to-sex-crime

Jack Harclerode, Bucknell professor, is now serving consecutive sentences for his abuse of young boys. He was 74 when sentenced.

I have often wondered if Jack Harclerode and Jerry Sandusky are acquainted, being that they live pretty close to each other, and are both associated with high-profile universities, and both raped boys on campus property.

Like Sandusky, Harclerode kept the key to his Bucknell office long after retirement, as a courtesy.

So many similarities.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I hope so, too, and I believe the sentences will be consecutive.

Here is a recent case in the same part of PA:

http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x1726189727/Ex-Bucknell-professor-pleads-guilty-to-sex-crime

Jack Harclerode, Bucknell professor, is now serving consecutive sentences for his abuse of young boys. He was 74 when sentenced.

I have often wondered if Jack Harclerode and Jerry Sandusky are acquainted, being that they live pretty close to each other, and are both associated with high-profile universities, and both raped boys on campus property.

Like Sandusky, Harclerode kept the key to his Bucknell office long after retirement, as a courtesy.

So many similarities.

If the article is correct, he got 5-10 years, plus 10 years probation, for 11 counts of ISDI, total. It was a plea deal, however. If that had been consecutive, it would have been 55-110.

BTW, it is the county just east of Centre.

 

[Pensfan]

A harmless old "Uncle Jer," sure. After all this, no way. Even if he'd win an appeal, and and be acquitted on retrial (which has a zero percent chance), he's marked for life.

When Jerry is released, 10-year-old boys won't remember his headlines. With the internet, Jerry can create himself a new identity and start handing out gifts to new young friends that he meets online. I think he will be deceased from cardiovascular problems before that time, but if not, at least his testosterone will have decreased from aging and the chronic stress of prison life.

The judge is, rightly, up in arms over it. Shubin probably wouldn't. I can't an angle for Amendola doing it. Anyone? Someone at the AG's Office might, to really show how degenerate Sandusky was, but violating a court order isn't their style.

Someone on staff, for money?

It shouldn't be too difficult to figure this out. There were only two copies made at the time of the recording.

A source close to the attorney general's investigation who was not authorized to speak publicly said that only two copies of the June 18 interview between Matt Sandusky and a state police investigator were made at the time of recording. Aside from Cleland, only three groups of people knew that conversation had taken place - prosecutors, defense lawyers, and Matt Sandusky's attorneys, Andrew Shubin and Justine Andronici.
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/160386035.html?cmpid=15585797

 

[gitana1]

BBM
I agree, but I don't think stating that fixated pedophiles seek affection from children is trying to prove that they are treatable. It is just a spooky fact.

Mentally healthy adults do not seek sexual affection from children. Children cannot be considered able to give their consent to a larger and more powerful human. That is why pedophilia is considered in psychology to be a pathological, abnormal sexual disorder which can cause harm to others. There are many disorders that are not acceptably "treatable" and may never be treatable. Regardless of what internal medicine residency trained Dr. Drew states (no, he isn't a psychiatrist), pedophilia is still at the top of that list. (Avoid watching his program when he discusses pedophiles or interviews them. It is scary.)

What they do to little kids or what they seek from them bears no resemblance whatsoever to sexual affection, IMO. I think classifying pedophilia as a disorder or mental illness ( the opposite of health is illness) and characterizing pedophiles a big, goofy, immature adults who turn to kids because they don't have the capacity or health to have relationships with adults, is b.s. and is a huge slap in the face of victims everywhere. Sometimes, it's just evil. And when the psychiatric community or psychological community pathologizes evil, it leads to excusing it.

For this reason, pedophiles have been deemed, by psychologists, repeatedly, no longer a danger to society and released from prison.

In any event, only some experts believe pedophilia is caused or related to arrested emotional development (which in turn, is related to the argument that they seek attention and affection from kids rather than adults). I find it to be an insulting and disgusting apologist argument.

Gitana, how may of these legal experts actually deal with PA law? How many deal have looked at it? How many have looked at sentencing patterns with similar cases?

You'll note in that blog that there was one cited that insisted there was not enough evidence for charges on Victim 6. The AG, who he criticized for being slow in prosecuting, brought them. The judge said there was enough and sent them to the jury.

Today, I am very happy that I ignored that expert. He wasn't the only one at the time.

Now, there are links posted to how judges, in PA, in similar cases. There is also a link posted for what the sentencing guidelines in PA are. Now, those might not make you feel good, but they are accurate.

If the judge follows the sentencing guidelines (as most do), a person with no priors would get 60 months for IDSI. The chart is here: http://www.penn-law.com/lawyer-attorney-1831194.html

I'm assuming that some will be larger and that the maximum penalty on one charge, or 4 consecutively, will be given, but based on living in this state for my entire life, and having seen much worse sexual abuse, I don't expect 200 years. The prosecutors know this, and the defense knows this. I would be overly surprised if 20-25 years will be acceptable to the AG.

As pointed out, Sandusky was not convicted of rape, which is a crime of violence. What he did was out of lust, and his libido was a factor. Rapist generally do not write creepy love letters begging their victims to see them, after they cut off contact. They will take more direct means; they don't stop when their victim says no.

Also note that his "peak time," as it were, was before he turned 60; it trailed off, too slowly, but it trailed off. That pattern is there. He needs to be monitored, tightly, but nature will be taking its course.

BBM. That's an excellent question. I don't know but it would make a huge difference. I'm going to review those sentencing guidelines now. I will say this again, though: It is clear by Amendola's petition that the sentences do not have to be concurrent. So, while someone is unlikely, in general, to get more than 60 months for ISDI, when there are multiple counts connected to multiple victims that occurred on different dates in different years, I think the argument for consecutive sentences is stronger.

As far as whether or not Sandusky will remain a danger in 10 or 20 years or not, well, we don't know that his appetite for destroying little lives has slowed down. He's got a whole crop of grandkids now. And we will likely never know how many victims he has actually had.

In any event, I have seen too many cases of old pedophiles to think the risk is worth it.

But let's put aside risk for a moment. That is certainly not the only determining factor in sentencing a criminal. Sandusky irrevocably altered innocent and extremely vulnerable young children. He damaged them permanently, no matter how strong they are or how well they heal. I'm not into torture or revenge but shouldn't Sandusky pay for what he did to those little lives? Shouldn't he give up his freedom for the rest of his life as a small pittance for the abuse he inflicted on children?

 

[Marigold]

(Respectfully stated) You are more accurately describing a child rapist.


Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

(Snipped for length)

With all due respect, I think delineating between a child rapist and a pedophile is like trying to define the difference between a man who rapes his dates vs. a man who hides in an alley and attacks a woman he doesn't know. Imo, in both instances, they are the same. One just has a more polished technique.

(And I know there is male vs. male rape, but I omitted it in order to avoid pronoun confusion.)

 

[Pensfan]

With all due respect, I think delineating between a child rapist and a pedophile is like trying to define the difference between a man who rapes his dates vs. a man who hides in an alley and attacks a woman he doesn't know. Imo, in both instances, they are the same. One just has a more polished technique.

(And I know there is male vs. male rape, but I omitted it in order to avoid pronoun confusion.)

Yes, both do the same horrid thing, but the individuals in each category are different. Consider one group to be cancer and the other to be necrotizing fasciitis (flesh eating bacteria). Both can destroy tissue and bring death to an organism, but they are different in nature.

 

[Pensfan]

Is it normal for defense attorneys to be forced to give a sworn statement after a trial about
what materials they received and who they have given them? If not, it appears it was the defense that leaked MS's tape because it was different than his grand jury testimony. (Snakes!)


Sandusky's defense team was asked to turn over its copy of the tape, but it will remain available to them. Cleland ordered that any discovery turned over to the defense in the Sandusky case be sealed unless it was put into evidence at trial. He also said defense attorneys shall give a sworn statement within 10 days as to what materials they received and who they have given it to.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/26/justice/pennsylvania-sandusky-developments/index.html

 

[BigCat]

Gitana, how may of these legal experts actually deal with PA law? How many deal have looked at it? How many have looked at sentencing patterns with similar cases?

You'll note in that blog that there was one cited that insisted there was not enough evidence for charges on Victim 6. The AG, who he criticized for being slow in prosecuting, brought them. The judge said there was enough and sent them to the jury.

Today, I am very happy that I ignored that expert. He wasn't the only one at the time.

Now, there are links posted to how judges, in PA, in similar cases. There is also a link posted for what the sentencing guidelines in PA are. Now, those might not make you feel good, but they are accurate.

If the judge follows the sentencing guidelines (as most do), a person with no priors would get 60 months for IDSI. The chart is here: http://www.penn-law.com/lawyer-attorney-1831194.html

I'm assuming that some will be larger and that the maximum penalty on one charge, or 4 consecutively, will be given, but based on living in this state for my entire life, and having seen much worse sexual abuse, I don't expect 200 years. The prosecutors know this, and the defense knows this. I would be overly surprised if 20-25 years will be acceptable to the AG.

As pointed out, Sandusky was not convicted of rape, which is a crime of violence. What he did was out of lust, and his libido was a factor. Rapist generally do not write creepy love letters begging their victims to see them, after they cut off contact. They will take more direct means; they don't stop when their victim says no.

Also note that his "peak time," as it were, was before he turned 60; it trailed off, too slowly, but it trailed off. That pattern is there. He needs to be monitored, tightly, but nature will be taking its course.

I don't know if it was so much a decline in his libido that caused his crimes to trail off as it was the poverty of resources needed to seduce boys. Without question losing his job in 99 was a major blow to him, which is another reason I don't believe retirement was his decision. His crimes declined further after 2001 when he was no longer allowed to bring children on campus. The fact that he was driving out to Clinton county to groom victim one proves that the desire was still there, even if the means had diminished.

Nevetheless, that distinction doesn't counter your argument. He should be less of a threat if he's release from prison because he'll be a social pariah. I don't doubt the compulsion will still be there, just like a thief released from prison will still have the compulsion to steal, but we can't keep 'em locked up forever. That's not a workable solution.

 

[Pensfan]

Here are some scary thoughts. I don't have any ideas/solutions except to segregate all sexual offenders on an island (only partially joking).

Once sexual predators are released from prison they very frequently can't find a permanent place to reside because they are on the sexual predator list. They end up moving from motel to motel. Parole officers lose track of them because they don't reside in a permanent place. They also can't find jobs because they are on the "list" and then they have nothing useful/healthy/productive to occupy their time. With nothing useful to occupy their time, they become involved in illegal activities.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...00408_1_offenders-parole-housing-restrictions
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=959847

I don't know if it was so much a decline in his libido that caused his crimes to trail off as it was the poverty of resources needed to seduce boys. Without question losing his job in 99 was a major blow to him, which is another reason I don't believe retirement was his decision. His crimes declined further after 2001 when he was no longer allowed to bring children on campus. The fact that he was driving out to Clinton county to groom victim one proves that the desire was still there, even if the means had diminished.

Nevetheless, that distinction doesn't counter your argument. He should be less of a threat if he's release from prison because he'll be a social pariah. I don't doubt the compulsion will still be there, just like a thief released from prison will still have the compulsion to steal, but we can't keep 'em locked up forever. That's not a workable solution.

He was still on the board and very active at TSM when he retired in 1999. I personally think his true love was young boys and not football and he retired to devote all his time to TSM or rather, finding more boys at TSM to seduce/molest/rape from TSM's large selection.

 

[BigCat]

He was still on the board and very active at TSM when he retired in 1999. I personally think his true love was young boys and not football and he retired to devote all his time to TSM or rather, finding more boys at TSM to seduce/molest/rape from TSM's large selection.

I agree that Sandusky preferred young boys to football. However, we have sworn testimony from Gary Schultz that Paterno decided that Sandusky needed to go.

http://media.sportsbybrooks.com/2012/06/paternofiredsandusky.jpg

Coaching at Penn State did not interfere with his ability to seduce boys, it helped him. He was "wining and dining" boys at bowls game in 98 & 99. If he was as clever as we give him credit for being, then he understood that a loss in status meant a loss in seductive prowess.

JMO

 

[Pensfan]

I agree that Sandusky preferred young boys to football. However, we have sworn testimony from Gary Schultz that Paterno decided that Sandusky needed to go.

http://media.sportsbybrooks.com/2012/06/paternofiredsandusky.jpg

Coaching at Penn State did not interfere with his ability to seduce boys, it helped him. He was "wining and dining" boys at bowls game in 98 & 99. If he was as clever as we give him credit for being, then he understood that a loss in status meant a loss in seductive prowess.

JMO

bbm
The DA says that Gary Shultz lied to that grand jury, so I'm not so sure about any of his sworn testimony.
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2012/06/penn_states_gary_schultz_lied.html

 

[Reader]

Report: Civil Suit Against Jerry Sandusky’s Charity Alleges Abuse Began In The 1970s

http://deadspin.com/5921547/report-...skys-charity-alleges-abuse-began-in-the-1970s

This lawsuit, however, goes after neither Sandusky nor Penn State. It alleges that Sandusky's abuse began "as far back as the 1970s," in WJAC's words. Here's more:

Instead, the target is the organization founded by Sandusky, the Second Mile Foundation......

The suit is filed on behalf of Victims 3, 5, and 7 as identified in the Sandusky grand jury indictment.

Also included is another defendant listed as John Doe A, who claims Sandusky molested him well over a hundred times.

------

New lawsuit against Second Mile claims Sandusky abuse started in 1970s

http://www.wjactv.com/news/news/new-lawsuit-claims-sandusky-abuse-started-1970s/nPfcS/

Also included is another defendant listed as John Doe A, who claims Sandusky molested him well over a hundred times.

Last month, Penn State Trustees were briefed on another suit that person has filed against the university. In that suit, John Doe A. claims Sandusky had been molesting children for decades and that Penn State and the Second Mile knew its facilities were not safe.

 

[Pensfan]

Report: Civil Suit Against Jerry Sandusky’s Charity Alleges Abuse Began In The 1970s

http://deadspin.com/5921547/report-...skys-charity-alleges-abuse-began-in-the-1970s

This lawsuit, however, goes after neither Sandusky nor Penn State. It alleges that Sandusky's abuse began "as far back as the 1970s," in WJAC's words. Here's more:

Instead, the target is the organization founded by Sandusky, the Second Mile Foundation......

The suit is filed on behalf of Victims 3, 5, and 7 as identified in the Sandusky grand jury indictment.

Also included is another defendant listed as John Doe A, who claims Sandusky molested him well over a hundred times.

------

New lawsuit against Second Mile claims Sandusky abuse started in 1970s

http://www.wjactv.com/news/news/new-lawsuit-claims-sandusky-abuse-started-1970s/nPfcS/

Also included is another defendant listed as John Doe A, who claims Sandusky molested him well over a hundred times.

Last month, Penn State Trustees were briefed on another suit that person has filed against the university. In that suit, John Doe A. claims Sandusky had been molesting children for decades and that Penn State and the Second Mile knew its facilities were not safe.

According to that article, TSM’s assets are only $5 million? They had offices all over the state of PA (Blair County, Clinton County, Lancaster County, Lehigh Valley, and one in the Southeast Region (for Delaware, Montgomery, and Chester Counties). Their State College office is for sale for $750,000. Where did their money go? Someone should assess whether the outgoing executives (child psychologist Dr. Raykovitz and his school counselor wife) gave themselves a bonus in addition to their six figure salaries while not reporting Jerry's sicko activities for decades.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ce-building-for-sale-in-state-college-642117/

 

[Reader]

I don't know if it was so much a decline in his libido that caused his crimes to trail off as it was the poverty of resources needed to seduce boys. Without question losing his job in 99 was a major blow to him, which is another reason I don't believe retirement was his decision. His crimes declined further after 2001 when he was no longer allowed to bring children on campus. The fact that he was driving out to Clinton county to groom victim one proves that the desire was still there, even if the means had diminished.

Nevetheless, that distinction doesn't counter your argument. He should be less of a threat if he's release from prison because he'll be a social pariah. I don't doubt the compulsion will still be there, just like a thief released from prison will still have the compulsion to steal, but we can't keep 'em locked up forever. That's not a workable solution.

BBM - (Just jumping off your post) It is in Florida and 14 other states who hold sexual offenders after they have served their sentences:

14 other states hold offenders after prison sentences end (2005)

http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/042505/met_debt2.shtml

........Besides Florida, 14 other states confine adult sex offenders after their prison sentences end.

All the laws require the state to prove a previous sex crime and a likelihood that the perpetrator will re-offend because of a mental disorder.

But beyond that, there are differences in how the laws are implemented and what's required.

For instance, most states require proof beyond a reasonable doubt that the offender needs to be committed, just like in a criminal case. Florida and a handful of other states only have to meet the lesser civil standard of "clear and convincing evidence."

Florida's Jimmy Ryce Act has been on the books only six years, yet the Sunshine State has held more sex offenders under it than any other state.

Florida spends $50,000 per offender a year, less than all but two other states, a situation experts said exacerbates management and treatment problems at the Florida Civil Commitment Center housed in an old prison east of Arcadia.

"We know what it costs to do a good job at this," said Gainesville psychologist Ted Shaw, who evaluates offenders under a contract with Florida Department of Children & Families and has testified for both prosecutors and the defense in Ryce cases.

More information:

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...1_kimbel-sexual-predator-law-sexually-violent
(1999)

The Jimmy Ryce Involuntary Civil Commitment for Sexually Violent Predators' Treatment and Care Act was named for a 9-year-old Dade County boy who was abducted in Miami in 1995, raped, shot and dismembered. His killer, Juan Carlos Chavez, was sentenced to death last fall.

Mental-health experts review cases of people convicted of violent sexual crimes to determine whether they could pose a threat after their release. The state Department of Children & Families narrows the list, and prosecutors take selected cases to court.

If a judge agrees there is a threat, a jury gets to choose freedom or treatment, which continues until the person is no longer dangerous. The law is modeled on a similar one in Kansas and several other states. Because it is heard in civil court, it is not considered additional punishment.

So far, 1,535 people statewide have been considered for further confinement under the law. Prosecutors have chosen to proceed in 41 cases.
-------

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...20160_1_sexually-violent-predator-wilcox-laws

Sex Offenders May Find Terms Are Never Over (2001)

As of last year, nearly 900 sex offenders were locked away for indefinite terms, or as the courts put it, "from one day to life."

The laws have withstood major legal challenges, including arguments that locking up a criminal after he has served his sentence amounts to double jeopardy.

The U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the laws twice, most recently in January.
------

PA needs to pass a similar law soon before JS is convicted on more charges. What I'm really hoping is that the feds charge and convict him also and he goes to them after he serves his state sentences, whatever they are, which will never be enough to give the victims, all of them including new ones coming forth, true justice, healing and the rest of their souls back. They need to feel safe that they will never have to meet JS again on a street in PA.

 

[Reader]

According to that article, TSM’s assets are only $5 million? They had offices all over the state of PA (Blair County, Clinton County, Lancaster County, Lehigh Valley, and one in the Southeast Region (for Delaware, Montgomery, and Chester Counties). Their State College office is for sale for $750,000. Where did their money go? Someone should assess whether the outgoing executives (child psychologist Dr. Raykovitz and his school counselor wife) gave themselves a bonus in addition to their six figure salaries while not reporting Jerry's sicko activities for decades.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...ce-building-for-sale-in-state-college-642117/

I wouldn't be surprised if they did, Pensfan, lot of funny stuff going on in the 2nd Mile as we now know. Would the insurance have to kick in on covering any of these suits also?

More than the money, I was interested in this statement:

John Doe A. claims Sandusky had been molesting children for decades and that Penn State and the Second Mile knew its facilities were not safe.

All of these civil suits are really going to blow the roof off the lies and cover ups going on at these institutions and I for one can't wait!

 

[Quiche]

respectfully snipped--

Nevetheless, that distinction doesn't counter your argument. He should be less of a threat if he's release from prison because he'll be a social pariah. I don't doubt the compulsion will still be there, just like a thief released from prison will still have the compulsion to steal, but we can't keep 'em locked up forever. That's not a workable solution.

Oh, I beg to differ when a 68 year old man earns himself 45 guilty counts and 445 years, indeed, he should be "locked up forever." mo

And regarding the civil suits cropping up against The Second Mile, I sure hope they're in time enough to keep the rest of the coffers intact. Weren't they worth substantially more just a few short months ago? Arrow Ministries, pfft, I'm sure the Raykovitz's are fresh rumps in their boardrooms. Essentially, those "child advocate" are stealing from children who need it worse than any they could possibly "minister" too. They are shameful human beings, imo.

And, given their anti-victim behavior, they better hope their names are completely clear in all this mess. jmo

Have the Raykovitz's already relocated to Houston? (it's my bet that's where they're headed-- follow those millions, between husband and wife, I don't see them willing to let go of half a mil. a year because of a little "negative publicity.")

The figure that came up for me regarding TSM's worth (last fall) and like 13.5 million. So... I'd like to see a forensic accountant get involved here.

:moo:


My feeling is Jerry's victims need to be compensated and helped to move past the devastation that rained down on them from TSM, PennState, and any culpable adult who made it possible for Sandusky to kill the soul of their childhoods and early adulthoods. My heart supports those victims. :heartbeat:

 

[LEFT-COASTER]

Here is my random rant for today lol..

I truely believe that there are many many people who knew of things going on with
their buddy Jer and his victims.. I think that there are many many more who perhaps didnt know for sure but felt things just weren't right.. I hope all of those people are suffering guilt but believe many only suffer guilt when it effects them..

For many years they were all in CYA(cover your assests) mode. To me thier little speeches now and there talk about all for the victims rings hollow and they are in fact only thinking about how this will affect them.... they are still trying to CYA. I pray that in some way, some how the people that knew are called on it and have to pay the piper..

If nothing through the legal system can be done or even if it can.,then they need to hit where it hurts them worse.. their reputation and their pocket books.. that seems to be the only things they care about.. they surely didnt care about the children.

i just pray that it all comes out.. ..
Im not sure why exactly but even changing the mural and putting the picture of the woman that is a child abuse avocate up where ole Jer used to be annoys me.. as I really question the motives.. anyway..
these are my random rants..
thanks for reading..
sue

 

[IzzyBlanche]

:floorlaugh:

"If [Dottie Sandusky] had been in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963, she probably would have told the Warren Commission she heard a firecracker, and then the president's hat fell off."

Read more: http://www.esquire.com/the-side/online-humor/jim-norton-please-be-offended-10087668#ixzz1z1zgk6OH